Objectivity, Please.

[MoGas]

I know there has recently been a lot of drama in the LR forum, and I am by no means trying to start an argument about what is better in people's minds.

My questions are few and very specific and objective.

I am thinking of getting an older (pre-99) Rover product. I'm not concerned with running reliability as the powertrain is going to be removed for a different setup.

What is the last year and model available in the US with crank windows?

What is the last year and model available in the US with manual seats?

What is the last year and model available in the US with a manual sunroof or no sunroof?

What is the last year and model available in the US with non computerized climate controls?

What is the last year and model available in the US with no ABS?

What is the last year and model available in the US with no added suspension fancifiers? Just shocks and springs and panhard bars if applicable.

You may see where I am headed. I want a Rover product with some sort of engine problem and preferably a manual transmission, crank windows, manual seats (not a big deal as I can build manual brackets), no fancy climate controls, crank or no sunroof, Power brakes and steering, NO ABS, Disc brakes or easily converted to disc, and straight up suspension. 2 or 4 door doesn't matter.


Thanks,
Dave

 

[Alaska Mike]

1973?

Seriously, I'm not sure about your NAS Rover question, because Rover re-entered the North American market as a premium marque. I'm not sure if there were bare-bones models available to us. The Defenders were pretty bare bones, but they don't come cheap, which I understand as part of your goals.

You might look at picking up a Disco I or RRC, pulling the extra wiring, and retrofitting British-spec rolling windows if they aren't available NAS. Since you're probably going to be doing a major wiring job with any engine swap, that would be a good platform to start with.

 

[sinuhexavier]

Crank windows will be tough, otherwise it's either the 96 or 97 Discovery or Defender...

I think.

 

[MoGas]

That would work. IIRC, the Camel Discos were power rear and crank front. Were there years that no rovers were imported? I'm no stranger to major rewiring for swaps. I didn't even think of using non US parts to "add" manual capabilities on a later model.

Subjectively, I like the looks of all the Rover products; RRC and Discos along with all the other Series and Defenders. So the model isn't a big deal to me.

 

[MoGas]

........but they don't come cheap, which I understand as part of your goals.

Abso-stinkin-loutely

 

[Scott Brady]

Hey Dave,

What are your goals with the build? Trails? Long trips? Family wheeler? Daily Driver?

 

[Alaska Mike]

That would work. IIRC, the Camel Discos were power rear and crank front. Were there years that no rovers were imported? I'm no stranger to major rewiring for swaps. I didn't even think of using non US parts to "add" manual capabilities on a later model.

Subjectively, I like the looks of all the Rover products; RRC and Discos along with all the other Series and Defenders. So the model isn't a big deal to me.

If you find a '74-'88 Land Rover, there's an almost 100% chance that it isn't US spec.

Honestly, I think Scott nailed the question on the head. What do you want the Rover to excel at? If you want Camel Trophy, look at those Disco Is very hard. I've seen otherwise good examples with high-mileage engines go for a few thousand up here. If you're going to pull the drivetrain for an American setup, that's where I'd look. The European market got all kinds of cool options that we never saw, and the parts are plentiful over there. Shipping and sourcing may be an issue, but the parts are there.

One of the Land Rover parts vendors (British Pacific?) has a Camel Trophy page that lists all of the mods done to each model. The lists are amazing short for what they put those rigs through.

 

[MoGas]

Hey Dave,

What are your goals with the build? Trails? Long trips? Family wheeler? Daily Driver?

Yes, No but maybe solo, yes, possibly.


I'm thinking: Cummins 4BT, Nv4500 5-speed, I may have to use a Land Cruiser or early Jeep t-case to simplify the swap and keep the offset axles. I am only in the earliest of stages of thinking/feasibility.

On the DD tip, I only drive 6 or so miles to work, and have driven vehicles with questionable reliability much further for many years.

 

[MoGas]

If you find a '74-'88 Land Rover, there's an almost 100% chance that it isn't US spec.

Canadian maybe? I'd also specify LH drive. So there were no US Rover dealers '74-88?

 

[Alaska Mike]

Canadian maybe? I'd also specify LH drive. So there were no US Rover dealers '74-88?

Not dealers of new Land Rovers, at least.

If you find a non-US Rover, be very careful in checking how it was imported to this country. There are legal imports, and there are a whole lot of ones that are less so. Obtaining a title may be very difficult if you're transferring it from state to state (often requires an inspection), and there are certain legal liabilities you might incur. Just trying to keep you out of trouble (or inform you of possible pitfalls) before you spend the money.

A Series Rover isn't going to be a cheap rig (believe me, I'm experiencing it now). My Series III is a '73, and that makes it a 35 year old rig this year. Even gutting the engine, transmission, and transfercase and installing American components, I'm finding that there are all sorts of consumable parts that need to be replaced. Those add up. Oh yes, they add up. Bearing and seals and gaskets and brackets and bolts and... My series rig cost $500 to purchase, and many, many times that before it's finally done. No big deal, because I will likely keep this rig for decades, but it hurts a little now. Ouch.

 

[JackW]

The 1991 Range Rover Hunter edition was a decontented model for the US market that meets all of you requirements except the crank windows one. The power windows proved to be more relaiable than the crank up ones (except for the cheap window switches) so that shouldn't be an issue.

The Hunter edition has no ABS, no sunroof, manual cloth seats, vented front disc brakes, and no sway bars. I drove one for twelve years until I bought my Defender - it was a great truck and was notable for not having most of the stuff that causes problems as the trucks get older.

 

[MoGas]

The 1991 Range Rover Hunter edition was a decontented model for the US market that meets all of you requirements except the crank windows one. The power windows proved to be more relaiable than the crank up ones (except for the cheap window switches) so that shouldn't be an issue.

The Hunter edition has no ABS, no sunroof, manual cloth seats, vented front disc brakes, and no sway bars. I drove one for twelve years until I bought my Defender - it was a great truck and was notable for not having most of the stuff that causes problems as the trucks get older.

Were they 91 only?

 

[Andrew Walcker]

Crank windows will be tough, otherwise it's either the 96 or 97 Discovery or Defender...

I think.

You are correct, the only other problem for MoGas is that both these models have ABS and what is called a Rough Road Sensor. When you trigger the Rough Road Sensor at the front wheels by, you guessed right, going down a rough road it will throw the check engine light, code P0460 (going off my memory at this instant). Nope, don't even question it or ask for logic, seriously! It doesn't happen all the time and I can clear it with the Scan Gauge.

 

[michaelgroves]

You are correct, the only other problem for MoGas is that both these models have ABS and what is called a Rough Road Sensor. When you trigger the Rough Road Sensor at the front wheels by, you guessed right, going down a rough road it will throw the check engine light, code P0460 (going off my memory at this instant). Nope, don't even question it or ask for logic, seriously! It doesn't happen all the time and I can clear it with the Scan Gauge.

The ABS detects a rough road, so as to prevent a false misfire error from being reported by the EMS. Rough roads introduce crankshaft vibrations which are indistinguishable from those caused by misfires, so the Crank Position Sensor would report a misfire, unless the ABS is reporting a rough road at the same time. As far as I am aware, it shouldn't activate the check light, though it may log the rough road condition code.

 

[sinuhexavier]

I just disconnected the ABS fuse... One of the first mods actually.

Crank position sensor is a finicky little sensor that can leave you in heavy limp mode that's for sure. It's a good spare to have.