older LC or newer 4Runner?

[dra2120]

Thanks for the comments everyone...I had to take a last minute trip, and didn't get to stay very involved in the thread. After reading it looks like the LC is coming out ahead. I'll give a bit more background on what I'm looking for. This is going to be a multi use vehicle. We will be using it for family hauling duties, as well as breaking into overlanding as a family. I actually used to own an overlanding company. At the time I had an 80 series, and I wish I had never sold it. However while I love the truck, it wouldn't work for my current needs. I'm looking for something reliable first and foremost. Our current rig (the QX56), has a very stout engine and drive-train, but there is always some little thing broken on it...Plus the AC barely works, and that is just a common problem with them...That doesn't go over well with the wife when she is hauling kids around and it is 90+ degrees outside. I want a vehicle that has an easy to find aftermarket. I've found winch bumpers, and snorkels and the like for the QX56, but they are all from specialty shops, and cost 3x what the equivalent part would cost on a commonly built vehicle...Which makes me slightly nervous about a Lexus. The Lexus seems to tick most of the boxes we are looking for, but I don't want to be doing hours of research on each part hoping that in the end it will work. I'm also considering a 2500 RAM, because we are in the process of rebuilding/remodeling our whole house, and quite frequently need to haul a bunch of lumber or such. We will be doing some towing, mostly of a 2K lbs camper, but occasionally heavier. Fuel mileage isn't a huge concern, as most of our driving is short around town type trips. With longer distance drives camping trips/visiting family/etc...That being said I'm not going to complain about paying less in gas/diesel.

 

[DaveInDenver]

If aftermarket is critical go backwards. Identify the parts you want and see which model and years best match. Any year 4Runner will be the easiest to modify, Cruisers usually aren't too bad.

The Lexus LX and GX are similar to the Cruiser and 4Runner but differ in body which makes bumpers particularly more limited. This is especially going to be the case with 2012+ with the monster grills they got in the facelift.

It's a matter of numbers and uses. There's a lot more 4Runners than anything else and as a result of that and sheer numbers of users on trails there's a bigger and more diverse aftermarket.

All the 200s I see tend to follow a similar ARB/OME/Slee build. The GX470 and early GX460 and 100s are getting interesting builds with age and falling into 2nd and 3rd owners who are less worried about resale or body damage. I can't say I've been with a 2015+ LX570s on the trail but I'm sure there's some. The current GX460 gets a little attention but it seems from people who don't mind reshaping with a Sawzall.

 

[NudeLobster]

If aftermarket is critical go backwards. Identify the parts you want and see which model and years best match. Any year 4Runner will be the easiest to modify, Cruisers usually aren't too bad.

The Lexus LX and GX are similar to the Cruiser and 4Runner but differ in body which makes bumpers particularly more limited. This is especially going to be the case with 2012+ with the monster grills they got in the facelift.

It's a matter of numbers and uses. There's a lot more 4Runners than anything else and as a result of that and sheer numbers of users on trails there's a bigger and more diverse aftermarket.

All the 200s I see tend to follow a similar ARB/OME/Slee build. The GX470 and early GX460 and 100s are getting interesting builds with age and falling into 2nd and 3rd owners who are less worried about resale or body damage. I can't say I've been with a 2015+ LX570s on the trail but I'm sure there's some. The current GX460 gets a little attention but it seems from people who don't mind reshaping with a Sawzall.

I was about to say, the bullbars and aussie swing outs fit the facelift lexus 200 and GX460 (150) because its just a matter of cutting the grill and bumper (usually) straight across. Probably why you see it so commonly. its an easy fit versus with a straight cut versus "interesting" bumpers that require custom shaping for the small niche market.

Having a V8 GX470, I honestly can't imagine driving a V6 in the united states west with mountains an 85mph deserts. my 4.7 V8 is barely adequate with all my gear and crap. the LC 5.7L and 6 or 8 speed would be much more tolerable, even with the larger vehicle weight.

the 200 series is an interesting meld. its only 3" WB/ 6" OAL/ 4" width larger than a GX/Prado/4R so its really not that much bigger on trail, but then it is bigger inside for gear and what not. I've run into a number of situations packing storage boxes or other gear that would pack and fit MUCH better with literally just those couple inches.

Aside from that, EVERYTHING is bigger and less stressed on the LC. tie rods and ball joints are nearly double the size, while the truck and weight is clearly not double. The differential and rear axles are much larger and stronger. The electrical harnesses are all meticulously stress relieved, isolated, and padded to ensure a long life.

The 4R is great but its not as great as the price commands these days. its under powered and under featured for the costs. You can get a GX with a better motor and trans and nicer features with the same capabilities for the same or less cost for used vehicles.

I know I'm probably biased but every time I see a new 4R all I can think is to assume the buyer didn't do much research or critical thinking for their 40-50k.

 

[calicamper]

I was about to say, the bullbars and aussie swing outs fit the facelift lexus 200 and GX460 (150) because its just a matter of cutting the grill and bumper (usually) straight across. Probably why you see it so commonly. its an easy fit versus with a straight cut versus "interesting" bumpers that require custom shaping for the small niche market.

Having a V8 GX470, I honestly can't imagine driving a V6 in the united states west with mountains an 85mph deserts. my 4.7 V8 is barely adequate with all my gear and crap. the LC 5.7L and 6 or 8 speed would be much more tolerable, even with the larger vehicle weight.

the 200 series is an interesting meld. its only 3" WB/ 6" OAL/ 4" width larger than a GX/Prado/4R so its really not that much bigger on trail, but then it is bigger inside for gear and what not. I've run into a number of situations packing storage boxes or other gear that would pack and fit MUCH better with literally just those couple inches.

Aside from that, EVERYTHING is bigger and less stressed on the LC. tie rods and ball joints are nearly double the size, while the truck and weight is clearly not double. The differential and rear axles are much larger and stronger. The electrical harnesses are all meticulously stress relieved, isolated, and padded to ensure a long life.

The 4R is great but its not as great as the price commands these days. its under powered and under featured for the costs. You can get a GX with a better motor and trans and nicer features with the same capabilities for the same or less cost for used vehicles.

I know I'm probably biased but every time I see a new 4R all I can think is to assume the buyer didn't do much research or critical thinking for their 40-50k.

Ditto on the power comments
I had a 4runner, moved to a J80 then a 1st gen Sequoia 4.7 which is tuned more aggressively than the LC. It was ok for our big trips but needed premium “only a sequoia 06-07 thing” due to hotter factory tune. It was working hard on the big trips but did fine. But the de tuned LC 4.7 is for sure being worked hard out west in full trip mode.

Now I’m running a 400hp HD Expedition and love it. I’ll go back to Toyota when they get caught up on mileage, power and Tech. Till then its 10spd, gobbs of grunt and power with amazing mileage. ?

 

[DaveInDenver]

I was about to say, the bullbars and aussie swing outs fit the facelift lexus 200 and GX460 (150) because its just a matter of cutting the grill and bumper (usually) straight across. Probably why you see it so commonly. its an easy fit versus with a straight cut versus "interesting" bumpers that require custom shaping for the small niche market.

Having a V8 GX470, I honestly can't imagine driving a V6 in the united states west with mountains an 85mph deserts. my 4.7 V8 is barely adequate with all my gear and crap. the LC 5.7L and 6 or 8 speed would be much more tolerable, even with the larger vehicle weight.

the 200 series is an interesting meld. its only 3" WB/ 6" OAL/ 4" width larger than a GX/Prado/4R so its really not that much bigger on trail, but then it is bigger inside for gear and what not. I've run into a number of situations packing storage boxes or other gear that would pack and fit MUCH better with literally just those couple inches.

Aside from that, EVERYTHING is bigger and less stressed on the LC. tie rods and ball joints are nearly double the size, while the truck and weight is clearly not double. The differential and rear axles are much larger and stronger. The electrical harnesses are all meticulously stress relieved, isolated, and padded to ensure a long life.

The 4R is great but its not as great as the price commands these days. its under powered and under featured for the costs. You can get a GX with a better motor and trans and nicer features with the same capabilities for the same or less cost for used vehicles.

I know I'm probably biased but every time I see a new 4R all I can think is to assume the buyer didn't do much research or critical thinking for their 40-50k.

I've never owned anything Cruiser other than an FJ40 but I have a lot of experience with mini trucks and the differences in theoretical size are most mostly paper and didn't translate to noticeably more breakage or shorter life. It's anecdotal, but it went 25 years and nearly 300k miles until I replaced it with my current Tacoma. It's actually still being driven by a friend, just not in a one-truck situation. I just felt it needed a restoration to be my only truck and I didn't have any way to rebuild it.

I've only had this Tacoma for a couple of years so my first hand experience with the trucks newer than 2003 is still out. Some stuff is superior and larger, some isn't, compared to the 1991. Overall I'd say the current Tacoma/4Runner/Tundra/Sequoia can still be called overbuilt mechanically but just not quite as much as the older ones. I think Toyota did cheapen the Tacoma in ways. The interior feels cheap to me anyway. I don't get that same feeling in the 4Runner.

But underneath Toyota has global manufacturing and quality standards and supplier chains for all their vehicles. Specifically the 4Runner is built at the Tahara plant, same as they always have, and the 200 series is made either at Tahara (since 2010) or the traditional Yoshiwara (this is the long time Cruiser factory). So any differences really come down to design intention (where the Cruiser has been unarguably heavier duty) more than any difference in attention to quality.

The 100 and 200 Cruisers are of a different era, though. That probably factored into why the 2022 will be the last world Cruiser we get in the U.S. They do have their weaknesses, CV axles like any IFS, engine issues, etc. But I'm not even sure the 300 series will really keep that same philosophy since it's supposed to join the TNGA-F platform with the 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, Prado, Hilux. I think the 70 series will probably keep that philosophy for the U.N. and mining trucks, though.

FWIW, I live "out West" in the desert nearly on the Colorado/Utah state line and find the 4.0L V6 completely adequate. It's not a rocket ship but I do the speed limit climbing passes and don't have to turn off the A/C to make two-lane passes. That is a personal thing. I like that even built up I get 16 to 18 MPG. With great power comes great thirst, I suppose.

 

[NudeLobster]

I've never owned anything Cruiser other than an FJ40 but I have a lot of experience with mini trucks and the differences in theoretical size are most mostly paper and didn't translate to noticeably more breakage or shorter life. It's anecdotal, but it went 25 years and nearly 300k miles until I replaced it with my current Tacoma. It's actually still being driven by a friend, just not in a one-truck situation. I just felt it needed a restoration to be my only truck and I didn't have any way to rebuild it.

I've only had this Tacoma for a couple of years so my first hand experience with the trucks newer than 2003 is still out. Some stuff is superior and larger, some isn't, compared to the 1991. Overall I'd say the current Tacoma/4Runner/Tundra/Sequoia can still be called overbuilt mechanically but just not quite as much as the older ones. I think Toyota did cheapen the Tacoma in ways. The interior feels cheap to me anyway. I don't get that same feeling in the 4Runner.

But underneath Toyota has global manufacturing and quality standards and supplier chains for all their vehicles. Specifically the 4Runner is built at the Tahara plant, same as they always have, and the 200 series is made either at Tahara (since 2010) or the traditional Yoshiwara (this is the long time Cruiser factory). So any differences really come down to design intention (where the Cruiser has been unarguably heavier duty) more than any difference in attention to quality.

The 100 and 200 Cruisers are of a different era, though. That probably factored into why the 2022 will be the last world Cruiser we get in the U.S. They do have their weaknesses, CV axles like any IFS, engine issues, etc. But I'm not even sure the 300 series will really keep that same philosophy since it's supposed to join the TNGA-F platform with the 4Runner, Tacoma, Tundra, Prado, Hilux. I think the 70 series will probably keep that philosophy for the U.N. and mining trucks, though.

FWIW, I live "out West" in the desert nearly on the Colorado/Utah state line and find the 4.0L V6 completely adequate. It's not a rocket ship but I do the speed limit climbing passes and don't have to turn off the A/C to make two-lane passes. That is a personal thing. I like that even built up I get 16 to 18 MPG. With great power comes great thirst, I suppose.

That's fair about power, its all relative and personal. I consider adequate to be able to maintain 75mph up a mountain grade without downshifting to 3rd at 4500-5000RPM rather than having to turn off AC or not.

My V8 requires some screaming to maintain the 75-80mph on I10 East of Tucson toward New Mexico and I just dont have the heart to keep it screaming to maintain speed. Sometimes Ill get passed by loaded semis if I don't commit to screaming 3rd gear.

To be fair, I can at least merge safely with my V8 currently but I'm literally WOT on shorter ramps. Tires, Skids, gear, armor, fridge, etc all weighs her down (6500lbs without passengers) and I realize that, but it seems the 5.7L and 6 or 8 speed has a lot more margin to eat up with weight and tires. the LC gets 45% more horsepower and an extra 1-3 gears while only weighting 10-15% more over my V8 120 series or a V6 T4R 150 series. I suppose it's a pretty American outlook to have way more in reserves than I need

 

[DaveInDenver]

That's fair about power, its all relative and personal. I consider adequate to be able to maintain 75mph up a mountain grade without downshifting to 3rd at 4500-5000RPM rather than having to turn off AC or not.

My V8 requires some screaming to maintain the 75-80mph on I10 East of Tucson toward New Mexico and I just dont have the heart to keep it screaming to maintain speed. Sometimes Ill get passed by loaded semis if I don't commit to screaming 3rd gear.

To be fair, I can at least merge safely with my V8 currently but I'm literally WOT on shorter ramps. Tires, Skids, gear, armor, fridge, etc all weighs her down (6500lbs without passengers) and I realize that, but it seems the 5.7L and 6 or 8 speed has a lot more margin to eat up with weight and tires. the LC gets 45% more horsepower and an extra 1-3 gears while only weighting 10-15% more over my V8 120 series or a V6 T4R 150 series. I suppose it's a pretty American outlook to have way more in reserves than I need

LOL, I avoid Interstate as much as possible and am pretty successful at it. But I don't have a commute so the truck's job is only recreational.

A significant difference is my truck hasn't eclipsed the GVWR (5,350 lbs) yet and I've got a stick shift (this is, I think, key). Haven't timed it or anything but acceleration doesn't seem sluggish merging and the Tacoma didn't even get the improved dual VVT-i (270 HP) the FJ Cruiser and 4Runner have. I'm limping along at a measly 236 HP, not adjusted for my 4,600' elevation.

Also have to figure in that I live in a very small city (65k) that's nowhere near any major metro areas where drivers seem to have completely lost their minds. The pace and flow of traffic is different when you have a rush 15 minutes, where a jam means it takes two cycles to get through a red light. I go to Denver or SLC and I could see how getting caught up in an arms races for engine power could be intoxicating.

 

[Cathleen Shea]

Im in UT and they seemed to be just below msrp, although there were not all that many available.

I know, it's crazy how few cars in general were on the lot. And not one 4R to be seen... but give it a year or so. A fair number will get traded when the mud washes off. Haha.

 

[tacollie]

The LC/Lexus stuff is definitely nicer. The V8s will not take the mpg hit the V6 will from added weight and larger tires. The 4.7 in the 100 and GX470 is adequate. If was the op I would lean towards a LC 200 just for the 5.7. it never felt like it was lacking on power in our 7700lbs Tundra. It could do 75 on any pass on i70. Since this the expo and everyone is crap on the roof I think it's important to mention the LC has a higher roof load rating.

 

[DaveInDenver]

The LC/Lexus stuff is definitely nicer. The V8s will not take the mpg hit the V6 will from added weight and larger tires. The 4.7 in the 100 and GX470 is adequate. If was the op I would lean towards a LC 200 just for the 5.7. it never felt like it was lacking on power in our 7700lbs Tundra. It could do 75 on any pass on i70. Since this the expo and everyone is crap on the roof I think it's important to mention the LC has a higher roof load rating.

With all the Overland® crap strapped to the roof you should be slowing down to prevent dying in a roll over during evasive traffic maneuvers, shouldn't you? Anyway, have you been over Vail pass lately? It's half gravel and the speed limit is (I think) 25 MPH because of the half a foot tall steps in pavement, which is itself highly irritating wider-than-a-Toyota-track double grooves that you bounce between. You need 4WD high clearance just to traverse I-70 anymore. Not that I'm complaining, I think pavement is a waste of taxes anyway. Let 'em all revert to gravel and dirt as far as I'm concerned.

 

[tacollie]

With all the Overland® crap strapped to the roof you should be slowing down to prevent dying in a roll over during evasive traffic maneuvers, shouldn't you? Anyway, have you been over Vail pass lately? It's half gravel and the speed limit is (I think) 25 MPH because of the half a foot tall steps in pavement, which is itself highly irritating wider-than-a-Toyota-track double grooves that you bounce between. You need 4WD high clearance just to traverse I-70 anymore. Not that I'm complaining, I think pavement is a waste of taxes anyway. Let 'em all revert to gravel and dirt as far as I'm concerned.

I didn't say I wanted to do 75 over all the passes ?. I used to drive faster than one should in a stock Toyota let alone an overweight Toyota no matter the road surface. Not these days.

 

[Todd780]

People are crazy! I wouldn’t pay MSRP for ANY vehicle let alone a dealers made up $5000 grifter fee.

Agreed! I don't even want to go look until Ford employee pricing / Toyota Red Tag days are back and rebates are in full swing.

That won't happen until inventory levels bounce back. But that's fine by me. I'm in no rush.

Just had a new water pump put in my truck on Monday. Next month it'll be new front pads and rotors. So, hopefully it's good for a while longer.

 

[calicamper]

I didn't say I wanted to do 75 over all the passes ?. I used to drive faster than one should in a stock Toyota let alone an overweight Toyota no matter the road surface. Not these days.

Lol the J80 and the 100 sweat the west distances especially with headwinds and climbs even when bare nakid of outside junk. LoL They are totally different beasts running 3L diesels in places where speeds are low and fuel stops are rare. The US spec LC’s only work because most people never venture more than 150miles from a gas station lol.

 

[calicamper]

Agreed! I don't even want to go look until Ford employee pricing / Toyota Red Tag days are back and rebates are in full swing.

That won't happen until inventory levels bounce back. But that's fine by me. I'm in no rush.

Just had a new water pump put in my truck on Monday. Next month it'll be new front pads and rotors. So, hopefully it's good for a while longer.

I bet the 2022 dealer lots are a bizarre combination of chip hold back, over stock 2021’s being sold off at crazy deals and 2022’s being hidden off site for the first 1/4 of 2022.

If you can wait till June -August i bet pricing gets really attractive ?

 

[tacollie]

Lol the J80 and the 100 sweat the west distances especially with headwinds and climbs even when bare nakid of outside junk. LoL They are totally different beasts running 3L diesels in places where speeds are low and fuel stops are rare. The US spec LC’s only work because most people never venture more than 150miles from a gas station lol.

Our 99' 100 on 33 MTs and fully armored would cruise 80 for the most part. It got a solid 12mpg. It did a lot of down shifting but it was freaking plush on the highway and on the trail. I went back to a 1st gen Tacoma because they are cheap and light. LC is a heavy pig and those rear lower control arms love getting bent!