On-board Air help!

[BPage]

BLUF: So let me start by saying I should have asked on the forum before I went out and spent money... :ugh:

My intention: I wanted to have on-board air for immediate use on ARB air-lockers, to air tires, and to run air tools (for on trail repairs).

What I did: I went out and bought the ARB on-board high performance 12 volt twin air compressor (CKMTA12) along with ARB lockers front and back. Day comes to pickup my Jeep (2015 JKU Sport) and we test the compressor, its running fine, test the lockers its running fine so I leave the shop and head to the store to buy some air tools (impact wrench, ratchet, screwdriver) to test out my new system. Hook up the hose, mount the fittings to the air tools for quick disconnect and hit the switch on the impact wrench and everything is spinning high speed (yeah!!) then I try to take a lug nut off my rim and nothing happens? It would appear that the high performance twin air compressor gucci wiz-bang top of the line ARB compressor doesn't have enough psi or cfm's to even take a lug nut off? What the F@#%$#!!!
So I head back up the shop that did my work and ask whats going on? They quickly call the local ARB distributor and begin asking questions (because my jeep was the first install for the dual compressor, they normally install the single compressor just for lockers). ARB tells the shop that the solution is that I need to now buy an air tank and repipe the system to have the air compressor fill the tank and discharge from the tank... What?

So here we are today, and before I spend another dime on this on-board air system, I thought I should send a call out for help on the forum and see if you guys have any solutions or suggestions before I keep dumping money into this system.
Now if the right answer is to go ahead and install the tank and everything will work fine, I am okay with that. However if there is a better setup, and I should be trying to return this stuff to ARB, let me know.

Help please...

 

[brianjwilson]

Of course you'll need a tank. You can't possibly think that compressor can pump out high volume and high psi constantly to run air tools. generally a smaller air pump either works great for volume or for pressure, not usually both. As an example, try to fill an inflatable pool with the arb compressor. And try to fill your tires with a small shop vac. Different purposes.

Even so, you really need to look at what kind of airflow and pressure your tools will need.
Here are two useful PDFs I found right away with a quick Google search.

http://store.arbusa.com/Assets/PDF/compressorTechnicalSpecifications.pdf
http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/pdf/newproductadvice/ckmta12_retail.pdf


I considered looking into running air tools myself. In the end I used the smaller ckma12 for lockers and tires, and bought an inexpensive electric impact with 2 lithium batteries and I've been very happy. Plenty of juice left in one battery after a tire rotation and other misc work. More than enough for road/trail repairs. You may not get stubborn pinion nuts off with it but you won't with a weak air system either.

Another option could be a co2 tank with a proper regulator, but I don't know how long it would run tools either.

 

[unkamonkey]

BLUF: So let me start by saying I should have asked on the forum before I went out and spent money... :ugh:

My intention: I wanted to have on-board air for immediate use on ARB air-lockers, to air tires, and to run air tools (for on trail repairs).

What I did: I went out and bought the ARB on-board high performance 12 volt twin air compressor (CKMTA12) along with ARB lockers front and back. Day comes to pickup my Jeep (2015 JKU Sport) and we test the compressor, its running fine, test the lockers its running fine so I leave the shop and head to the store to buy some air tools (impact wrench, ratchet, screwdriver) to test out my new system. Hook up the hose, mount the fittings to the air tools for quick disconnect and hit the switch on the impact wrench and everything is spinning high speed (yeah!!) then I try to take a lug nut off my rim and nothing happens? It would appear that the high performance twin air compressor gucci wiz-bang top of the line ARB compressor doesn't have enough psi or cfm's to even take a lug nut off? What the F@#%$#!!!
So I head back up the shop that did my work and ask whats going on? They quickly call the local ARB distributor and begin asking questions (because my jeep was the first install for the dual compressor, they normally install the single compressor just for lockers). ARB tells the shop that the solution is that I need to now buy an air tank and repipe the system to have the air compressor fill the tank and discharge from the tank... What?

So here we are today, and before I spend another dime on this on-board air system, I thought I should send a call out for help on the forum and see if you guys have any solutions or suggestions before I keep dumping money into this system.
Now if the right answer is to go ahead and install the tank and everything will work fine, I am okay with that. However if there is a better setup, and I should be trying to return this stuff to ARB, let me know.

Help please...

Yes, you need the tank if you expect to run air tools off of the system, Most everybody that has a setup like yours has an air tank plumbed in. Another thought is what size of air line are you using to run the tools? The standard coily line is fine for filling a tire but for a tool, you need more volume to the tool.

 

[v_man]

As someone who went through the whole vehicle air tool debate, I too just ended up going with battery powered impact wrench, it also powers my grinder, drill motor. etc... It seems cool to be able to run air tools but in 3+ years of wheeling hardcore trails, I've not once wished I had air tools...and I've broken my share of stuff on the trail. If you do want to go the air tool route , it would be pretty simple to mount a 5 gallon air tank, or even easier, a Co2 tank ....

 

[IndyRubicon]

If you really need to run air tools, then wouldn't a Warn PowerPlant be easier? Can use it as a winch, tire inflater, and run your tools, all right there from the front of your vehicle.

 

[rino]

Good news, you bought a great compressor. Bad news, air tools even with a 1-2 gallon tank are not practical. Invest in electric tools if you see fit, otherwise you will never be left powerless by good old fashioned hand tools.

 

[Lucky j]

If you really need to run air tools, then wouldn't a Warn PowerPlant be easier? Can use it as a winch, tire inflater, and run your tools, all right there from the front of your vehicle.

Even with a warn power plant, you still need a tank to run air tool. But even so, what is the duty cycle of the warn power plant?? Not sure it is 100% .

 

[IndyRubicon]

Even with a warn power plant, you still need a tank to run air tool. But even so, what is the duty cycle of the warn power plant?? Not sure it is 100% .

Yep, overlooked that. Haven't ever thought it through because I cannot fathom needing air tools on a trail. The day I need that is a bad day indeed.

 

[chasespeed]

Okay, to be clear, not everyone understands the cfm per psi required to operate air tools.

Now, if you must have power tools in your vehicle, you would be better served by getting QUALITY battery tools, Milwaukee, Matco, Snap-On, etc. All the power tools in my van are red. Used mine to break the bolts free on a chiller barrel, that had been in place, sweating in the Texas humidity, since the late 70s or early 80s, last week. And mine is an older model.

And i can charge the batteries in the van.

Go that route(lighter, and more reliable, less reliance on vehicle power for operation) and a CO2 tank/regulator kit for the tires.
CO2 can also operate air tools. And refills are cheap.

List your requirements, wants, and priorities.

People love to spend other people's money....

Just sayin....
Chase

 

[Crom]

Either add a 5 gallon tank, or do what v man said.

 

[SSF556]

should have bought a rubicon....

 

[Happy Joe]

Re; on board air;
A 2.5 gallon surge tank is fine...IF you have enough CFM at the compressor.
For large quantities of air select a large displacement, belt driven, air conditioning compressor or get a compressor off of a diesel rig (need to plumb in an oil line and likely a drain line for the diesel compressor), make bracketry and figure a method to run the belts...
There is a lot of info on the web on how to convert an A/C compressor into an air compressor the method varies somewhat depending on the AC compressor selected.
Most newer vehicle do not have enough room under the hood for a diesel compressor and many do not have enough room for a second AC compressor.
Note; your compressor will need safety valves and a pressure driven shutoff method.

As mentioned, air tools (especially cheap air tools) are a probably waste of time/weight/space to carry.
If you absolutely must run air tools for a limited amount of time; a CO2 bottle and regulator would do the job (as mentioned) but they are not small either...

Carry an ammo can with enough of the correct hand tools to disassemble and reassemble the vehicle (its relatively inexpensive, probably more compact, and might be lighter).

Enjoy!

 

[BPage]

@ Brian Wilson: Thanks for the feedback. I saw both those pdf files before I bought, however when looking at the cfm to psi chart on the second file, it notes 90 psi at 3cfm. So I toured my local hardware store and found an impact wrench that ran 90 psi at ~3cfm thinking perfect match! And when you connect the two together it spins like a champ in your hand (under no load). Then I realized that 90 psi isn't enough pressure to remove lug nuts. you need somewhere in the neighborhood of 125psi, much more if it is torqued on there or stuck.
And I understand your one or the other (volume vs. psi)... that is why I went with ARB dual compressor to begin with... it is a 100% duty cycle "high volume airflow" (cfm) compressor. Or at least that is how they advertise it in both the pdf's you referenced.

I agree with you, if I had it to do over again, i would have got a cheaper compressor for my lockers and airing up tires and used that money for something else. I will look into the electric impact with lithium batteries this weekend, that might be the right way to go.

Thanks for the advice!

@Rino: Thanks for the feedback. I think I will hold off on getting the air tank, and look into the electric impact wrench


@SFF556: Thanks for the feedback, however I have owned a Rubicon (Just sold it in May), and what I came to realize is that for what I want to do "expeditionary travel and exploring", I could build a better Jeep than buying a $45K Rubicon.

@Happy Joe: Thanks GREAT ADVICE!!! I may use your post in the future when talking to others in Jeep clubs as it is very logical.

All, Thanks again for the help.

 

[jeepovich]

I fix cars for a living and I can tell you that having air tools in your 4x4 is nothing more then a novelty items. If you are planning on wrenching a full work day, every day and repair a large number of vehicles, no need to have air tools. Seriously, how many lug nuts or other fasteners are you expecting to remove/install every time you go out 4x4? I prefer hand tool for trails - they do not take up a lot of room ( you can bring more useful tools in place of one impact gun). I have been off roading my Jeep hard for over 5 years and the amount of times when I told my self "If only I had air tools to fix this problem" was zero. I would recommend not to waste you money on thing you don't need but instead spend it on taking your 4x4 out to the trails as often as possible. :smiley_drive:

 

[Out2PLAY]

I am running this system and very happy with it

http://www.jeepswag.com/shop/shop/jeep-jk-ultimate-oba/dominion-offroad-jeep-jk-ultimate-onboard-air-system-with-2-gallon-air-tank-and-in-cab-switch-and-pressure-gauge-2/