Opinions on 1st Gen. Xterra (WD22) vs. 2nd Gen. Pathfinder (R50)

[DanF.]

Summary of my situation: We currently own a 2004 (R50) Pathfinder SE 4wd and a 2005 (E46) BMW 330xi 6spd. and I'm entertaining ideas of replacing the BMW (for all intents and purposes my car) with another vehicle worth approx. the same value. KBB says the BMW is worth between $3500-$4000 in current condition with 226,xxx miles on chassis, but with a new engine from BMW Germany installed 60k miles ago. Car was maintained very well by previous owner, and there's a large stack of paperwork to go with it, so I can probably haggle for a bit more on my end.

So, I've been eyeing either an Xterra (WD22) or another Pathfinder (R50) for my personal 4wd vehicle. That way, the wife gets to keep her Pathfinder in good condition, and I have something to take into the woods and not worry about damaging her vehicle. I feel bad (to a point) whenever I hear the forests of NH/VT scraping along the sides of her (our) Pathfinder.

I have learned a fair bit of R50 knowledge over the last year or so, and have been very impressed with it's performance and capability considering it's 12 years old. However, the aftermarket support for the R50 is very basic, with not a lot of options. I don't know a whole heck of a lot about the WD22 aftermarket, but it seems to be much larger.

What sort of things should I be considering? I know the 3.5L engine is much more potent than the 3.3L, but what about reliability and ease of maintenance? I'm not trying to spin the tires at every traffic light, but I'd like to be able to move out of my own way with 33" tires and a small lift.

Also, the drivetrain in the R50 is pretty stout, with not a lot of worries about breaking axles, rear-ends, etc.. except if you install a lift and increase the C/V angle too far at full-droop. Does the Xterra have similar issues? (Heck I'm not even sure what sort of lift options there are...)

Are the same transmissions (auto. and manual) and transfer cases used in the WD22 and R50? I know that there are different rear axles between the two, but some NPORA heroes have devised ways of installing Xterra/Frontier axles/differentials into Pathfinder rear ends.

Anyways, I'd love to hear your thoughts/opinions on the matter.

 

[Mr.510]

The WD22 is much more capable and durable off road than the R50. The WD22 is basically a WD21 Pathfinder chassis, but with leaf springs in the rear instead of a four link and coil springs. The R50 is a unibody with a four link and coil springs out back, but with MacPherson struts and rack and pinion steering up front. The R50 is lighter and better suited for pavement and gravel roads where the WD22 is heavy duty with a full frame and double A-arm front suspension, and can take a serious beating off road, just like the WD21. VG (3.0 and 3.3 liter) engines are more reliable, last longer, and are cheaper to operate than VQs (3.5 liter), but have less power. The R50 uses a different transfer case and front differential than the WD21/22. The automatic transmissions are the same in both vehicles, except that from '01-on they were beefed up and are much stronger. All of these trucks use H233B rear ends but ratios, mounting points, and disc/drum brakes vary by model.

For the record, I'm a hardcore WD21 guy with a 'built' early Pathy that spends a LOT of time in the woods on the gnarliest trails in the PNW so I'm highly biased toward serious off road use and durability/reliability.

 

[Hawairish]

Hey Dan, I think in your specific scenario, you would be better off with the Xterra instead of another R50. And I say that because even knowing what I know about the R50, the WD22 has a lot more potential in everything (except maybe engine performance). I personally don't think the R50 is as weak or incapable as others suggest, but Nissan surely didn't attempt to capture the same audience that they did for the X. There's by far a deeper fan base for them than the Pathfinder (probably moreso than just WD21 alone, too).

As Mr.510 put it, the WD22 is based on the WD21...but really, it's based entirely off the Standard Cab D22 4x4 Frontiers. Nissan stopped producing those Frontiers to exclusively use the short frame for Xterras (they continued to make King Cab models, and eventually Crew Cab). So, it shares the same drivetrain and suspension as the 98+ 4wd Frontiers (the 2wd trucks have a different frame and suspension), which were very similar to the W/D21 chassis, noting subtle control arm changes. The front interior is also the same for W/D22 models.

Where the WD22 excels is after market support. It (and the Frontier) has everything. SAS kits; upgraded torsion bars; beefier everything for steering (tie rods, centerlinks, idler braces...and dependable OE steering box); extended upper control arms (UCA); shackles, add-a-leafs (AAL), new leaf packs, axle blocks; multiple front and rear bumper options; armor; roof racks; interior cargo solutions; gearing and lockers; intakes, snorkels...everything. Hell, one company alone makes almost all that stuff (Calmini), but they are not the only vendors.

For day-to-day use, I agree that the VG engine is reliable (though not as reliable as the KA engines), but significantly less powerful than the VQ. It's surely cheaper to operate because it lacks a lot of the engine management that that VQ does. The W/D22 has supercharged options, but the VQ still tops them. However, the VG can get the same mileage on cheaper fuel. VG has a timing belt, though. The torsion bar and leafs make for a far more truck-like ride. The CVs are as susceptible to breakage as the R50 with excessive lift. Suspension lifts are limited to 3", but there are 3" body lifts available. By contrast, the R50 can only achieve 6" of lift with an SFD and lift springs. Personally, I'm not a fan of torsion bars, but they do afford "free lift" (by re-indexing them). There a ton more WD22 shock options.

Drivetrain-wise, you should expect no difference. As you've seen from my posts, they are practically identical. The R50 front diff is only different in the casing and high-pinion application (which is what makes it a real bastard, though); the transfer cases on the part-time 4wd systems are identical (the variant is the All-Mode 4wd system on some R50s and all QX4s). Everything else I've probably proven interchangeable at some point. The CVs are only dimensionally longer by maybe 1"; I think even the flange and spline patterns are the same. I'm not aware of any beef-up done on 01+ X transmissions, seeing as the internals are the same and they have the exact same drive ratios, but I am curious to know those differences; though I don't believe the the AT as a whole to be directly interchangeable because bellhousing.

Don't get me wrong about the R50; you know I'm a fan. But I actually find myself in a similar boat for another 4wd, with my wife expressing some interest to get into off-roading. I'm no stranger to Nissans (I also have a 98 Frontier 2wd that I ran lifted for several years, btw), so it's natural to look for another Nissan. But I don't see any practical benefit to having a 2nd R50 if I had any intention of building it up (or wearing it down).

 

[DanF.]

Mr. 510 and Hawairish, thanks for your great responses. Even though I'm still not close to actually selling the car and being able to buy a replacement, I'm trying to gather as much info on the Xterra as possible. For the last few years I had seriously considered the 2005+ (N50) Xterras, especially the Off Road/Pro-4X variants, and while living out in CA had even found a seller who was willing to trade my E39 540i (mint condition with the V8/6spd) plus some $$$ for his Pro-4X.

Hawairish, I had considered getting an R50 because I was at least somewhat comfortable with the one we currently own, but there just aren't enough decent examples up here in NH (too much salt on the roads).

Since then, I've read some less-than-favorable observations about driveline failures and auto. gearbox contamination issues in the N50. And, even though the numbers are very close, the N50 looks much bulkier. I do like the 4.0L V6, and enjoy flogging my father's '16 Frontier whenever I'm behind the wheel, but 80hp difference vs. the VG33 isn't such a big deal if it means I gain a more robust, easier to wrench on vehicle.

Mr.510, how are the cost of parts and availability for the WD22? I come from owning many Saabs and a couple BMWs over the last 12 years, and have become adept at scouring online resources and junkyards for parts, especially when I had my (amazing) late-80s turbo Saabs, but also realize that sometimes you're gonna pay out the *** for that one, hard to find, part.

How hard is it to DIY wrench/maintain the VG30/33 engine? There was mention of it having a timing belt vs. timing chain, so I take it that the belt has to be replaced more frequently, but should be a little easier to do? (I assume it's much better than the 20+ hour/$3500 timing chain job for a 4.4L E39 engine, lolwutfukthat)

What other areas of WD22 maintenance should I be looking into?

 

[broncobowsher]

I despise the VG33 engine. V8 fuel economy with I4 power. The VQ engine not only has more power, but in an even drive with a VG it will deliver better mileage as well.
From what I can tell is that you are still going to be using this as a daily driver as well? If you are building a dedicated weekend toy just get the WD22 Xterra and we are done.

But if this is a daily driver that you are going to play with. I would lean more toward an R50. But only the later ones with the VQ engine. Avoid the strut tower rust and you are good.
If you could expand your search a little to include the second gen Xterra they are so much better then the others.

 

[Triplesnake]

VG33's are pretty darn easy to work on in my estimation. I'm not an experienced wrench and was able to do head gaskets (over 200k miles I might add) in my driveway with just the help of some youtube videos and renting one or two tools. Parts aren't' bad either. If I recall correctly we only spent in the neighborhood of $1500 on parts for that job and that included replacing exhaust manifolds, water pump, timing belt, all of the other belts, distributor, spark plugs and wires,and some other stuff. I'm a big fan of the 1st gen Xterra. Having said that, for your stated purpose, I think you be better off with an N50 especially if it will serve DD duty. More power, better mileage, great aftermarket, and an available E-locker are all big pluses in my book.

 

[MagicMtnDan]

I have nothing to add but as the West Coast "Dan F." I wanted to stop in and say hello.

 

[DanF.]

I have nothing to add but as the West Coast "Dan F." I wanted to stop in and say hello.

I used to be West Coast DanF. as well. Spent a few years in Oakland, CA. Then in TX. Now back to the greatest state in the union. LFOD

 

[Nd4SpdSe]

As Mr.510 put it, the WD22 is based on the WD21...but really, it's based entirely off the Standard Cab D22 4x4 Frontiers. Nissan stopped producing those Frontiers to exclusively use the short frame for Xterras (they continued to make King Cab models, and eventually Crew Cab). So, it shares the same drivetrain and suspension as the 98+ 4wd Frontiers (the 2wd trucks have a different frame and suspension), which were very similar to the W/D21 chassis, noting subtle control arm changes. The front interior is also the same for W/D22 models.

Differences are subtle actually, but 2001 Frontiers and older share the same parts as the older trucks, only the 2002-2004 Frontiers are the same as the Xterra. I tried to use the front end parts from my 2001 Frontier on my 2003 Xterra, and the brake parts were all incompatible. They're SOOO close, but a few mm here and a few mm there make them not fit.

 

[Hawairish]

I like the N50 platform in general; the 4.0L is a stroked 3.5L and it's apparent (drove a couple newer Frontier CC 4wds this year and loved it). But, that VQ40DE has had reports of timing chain noises/whining that the VQ35DE doesn't seem to have. I like the body styling, but I feel like the rest of the drivetrain was a major step backwards. Smaller, weaker front and rear diffs (many reports of cracked housings or grenaded internals, including with the OE locker). Transmission woes, potentially "SMOD" on earlier vehicles. I'd be really concerned about buying a used, earlier MY. Even the price gap between an 04 R50 or 04 WD22 and 05 N50 seems unjustifiable (they're several thousand more in my area, just for 1 MY newer).

Fortunately, like the WD22, there is a lot of N40 aftermarket support.

 

[Mr.510]

There are three 'versions' of the RE4R01A automatic transmission behind VGs in Nissan 4x4s. Nissan did not change the model number or otherwise denote a difference when they made upgrades so when we started swapping later transmissions into WD21s we made up our own over at NPORA, and they seem to have caught on most places.

'88-'00 This is the 'regular', original RE4R01A. These transmissions are known for having reverse fail, usually followed by clutch slippage in 2nd gear a few thousand miles later. Most of these transmissions are worn out junk by 250k miles, even if maintained and treated well. 75% of WD21s in wrecking yards are there because the automatic transmission failed. These transmissions usually live longer in caR50s because the vehicle is lighter and more aerodynamic.

'01-on Normally aspirated models. We call these "RE4R01A HD" for Heavy Duty. These transmissions have better clutches and stronger planetary gear sets than the earlier ones and very rarely fail, even with lots of HP/abuse and 400k+ miles. Nissan beefed up the original transmission to deal with the added power of the VQ engines, and put the HD transmissions in all NA trucks going forward.

'01-'04 Supercharged models. We call these "RE4R01A SHD" for Super Heavy Duty. These transmissions have more clutch discs and all the gears are stronger. These transmissions also have a TSS (turbine speed sensor) that plugs into the top just behind the bell housing. When swapping the SHD trans into a non-S/C model you just ignore the TSS. Supercharged trucks will not run right without the TSS so you cannot put a regular or HD trans in one. The SHD also uses a different torque converter and flex plate so when swapping you need the flexplate too.

Other than the TSS and torque converter on the SHD, the wiring on all of these transmissions is exactly the same and they all physically interchange. They are computer controlled transmissions and any computer will run any trans. The shift and lockup points are determined by the TCU, so any of these will behave exactly the same as stock, except the HD and moreso SHD will shift harder when run wide open throttle, especially if you have more power than stock. Since they're electrically shifted by feeding 12v+ to various solenoids, it's also easy to add things like manual TC lockup for steep hill descents and even full manual control. I run the HD trans behind a ~210hp VG34i in my '88 Pathy wheeler. My best friend runs a SHD trans behind a VG33E in his '95 Pathy wheeler. I built/swapped them both so I am speaking from my own experience on interchange.

Regardless of what model truck you end up getting, if it has an automatic transmission install an aftermarket transmission cooler and do not use the heat exchanger in the radiator! A 16k GVW rated cooler is large enough for the vast majority of uses, including towing. I run a 24k rated Hayden plate type cooler because my truck often spends the whole day in low range 1st gear and the radiator and coolers are always coated in mud which reduces their cooling efficiency. I also run Amsoil synthetic ATF and highly recommend it.

 

[Hawairish]

Thanks, Mr. 510. Good info...and not to doubt you; I'm familiar with your work. I had read about a few Xterra transmission swaps by WD21 guys on NPORA, but I guess it was mostly to get a newer AT that fit. About the TSS...I presume that's aka Turbine Revolution Sensor? Since the R50 was the only VQ-equipped truck/SUV, has a TSS/TRS, and appears to use the same torque converter, would that suggest it's also got the SHD version?

 

[TowndawgR50]

I used to be West Coast DanF. as well. Spent a few years in Oakland, CA. Then in TX. Now back to the greatest state in the union. LFOD

When were you in Oakland? I just moved from "The Town" to the Seattle area.

 

[DanF.]

When were you in Oakland? I just moved from "The Town" to the Seattle area.

Hey, I was there from 2013 to 2015. Lived in the Adams Point neighborhood of Oakland, just north of Lake Merritt. Was a fun place to live for a few years.

I had my BMW back then, but only drove for fun. I was so close to where I worked that I walked 10 mins, or rode my bike downhill for two mins. So much great beer and wine in that part of the country. It was a shock to move from the Bay Area to Texas, but now we're back up in New Hampshire.

The only (big) issue is that the roads in all of New England are salted during the winter months, so the amount of decent older vehicles is pitiful. Most have rusted out rockers and decaying frames.