Outback vs. Honda Cr-V

[Strizzo]

interesting videos, but there are a number of claims in it that they incorrectly attribute to subaru's symmetrical drivetrain layout, that really have no basis in reality. also, unless you get the STi wrx, you're not going to get the VDC with torque distribution with a manual trans, at least you couldn't a couple years ago when i last looked at them.

nonetheless, i'd like to see if the e-lsd in my xterra could move on that setup with only one front wheel traction.

 

[4x4abc]

interesting videos, but there are a number of claims in it that they incorrectly attribute to subaru's symmetrical drivetrain layout, that really have no basis in reality.

could you specify what was wrongly claimed?

 

[poriggity]

Given the two, I'd probably go Subie, but I do have to say, the CRV kicks some serious tail in the snow!
Scott

 

[RubiconGeoff]

interesting videos, but there are a number of claims in it that they incorrectly attribute to subaru's symmetrical drivetrain layout, that really have no basis in reality. also, unless you get the STi wrx, you're not going to get the VDC with torque distribution with a manual trans, at least you couldn't a couple years ago when i last looked at them.

Yeah, most of the info in that 2nd video is great, but the part about asymmetrical drivetrain layouts causing a side-to-side movement on the rollers is complete B.S. But overall, it clearly demonstrates the superiority of Subaru's AWD system.

I particularly like the 3-mode AWD system in my Suzuki SX4. It's similar to the Haldex-type setup with a computer-controlled wet clutch pack mounted to the rear pinion. Unlike others' use of this technology, Suzuki makes theirs selectable, from purely front-wheel drive, to computer-controlled automatic mode, to a "locked" mode that simply applies maximum lockup of the clutch discs. It's not a true lock like a part-time 4WD system, but it allows the rear wheels to pull hard in instances like what's seen in that video. And with the addition of ESP licensed from Mercedes-Benz, it allows brake-based traction control to further distribute torque left/right and front/back. In many ways, it offers the best of all worlds - I just wish it also offered unlocking hubs in back, along with a true 100% lockup of the center coupler...not to mention locking diffs, a low-range transfer case, and solid axles... :sombrero:

 

[cmgraves]

just watch these videos

That was freaking awesome. Didn't realize how really crappy the cr-v was with what they consider AWD Wished they would of showed the rear end going over the hump. I mean, all we know, Chuck Norris was pushing the Subarus!

After doing some research, Subarus are not the friendliest with car seats. That "hump" in the middle back seat makes it a challenge to get them in the car seat firmly in place. People says it can be done. But nothing you want to do once a week. Fits better on the side, but somethign I like to avoid. If I get time, I want to got to the dealership and test it out myself with the '03 versions and the 06' version.

More of an FYI for others looking at outbacks and have car seats.

 

[bucketosudz]

Not to take away to much from the heart of the topic, but we have been having the same conundrum about the car seats in a Subaru. There is a thread on car-seat.org that has photos of many different variations in the Subaru's. They have put three matching Britax seats side by side, and with one rear facing. Once you get them all buckled in (the part where you swear...) it isn't too bad. Then you utilize the 5 point harnesses.

We would like to get the 10' model Outback, as they are wider, but will have to settle on older one. Still should be a reasonable accommodation for our kids at 3,7, and 9.

 

[Applejack]

Yeah, most of the info in that 2nd video is great, but the part about asymmetrical drivetrain layouts causing a side-to-side movement on the rollers is complete B.S. But overall, it clearly demonstrates the superiority of Subaru's AWD system.

Well I wouldn't say it's complete B.S. there are merits to their SAWD claim but perhaps not for that test. I think SAWD is best demonstrated on a track at speed rather than at 2 mph where the inertial mass of the car does not come into play. I would place the blame of the side to side movement on poor traction control synchronization.
I would sometimes experience that in my Taco if I was climbing a slick hill. With the traction control on it would brake one wheel and power another and switch back and forth while the rear now carrying more weight due to weight transfer mostly kept both wheels moving. This would cause the front end to shift back and forth and if you tried to counter steer it, it would many time exaggerate the problem. I didn't like that.

 

[cmgraves]

Not to take away to much from the heart of the topic

Not at all. That is one, if not my top priority with a vechile, and safety regarding my munchin safty. I went through that website, and it does have some good info., but its hard to weed through there very unorganized website. Good to hear that a ExPo member can fit car seats in the back of a Subaru. Even though swearing is involved, it can be done.

 

[Strizzo]

could you specify what was wrongly claimed?

happy to. they claim that the toyota shifting back and forth on the rollers was evidence of torque steer due to the unequal length halfshafts. torque steer is the tugging on the wheel you feel under heavy throttle due to the different length shafts flexing differently, or the tires having shifting amounts of traction on an uneven road. the traditional "torque steer" that people feel has been mostly eliminated by using a jack shaft to connect the "long side" so that equal length halfshafts are able to be used.

in that video the toyota is shifting side to side on the rollers because the traction control is trying to find traction by grabbing the brakes on either wheel shifting power side to side. the narrator of the video claims that the subaru doesnt do this because of the symmetrical AWD drivetrain. it might have something to do with what subaru did, but not the drivetrain layout. more likely the traction control programming.

basically subaru has one main thing thats different than the other companies cars, the way they handle the traction control is nearly the same, by applying brakes to the wheels that spin. only difference might be that the subaru system is more aggressive at braking the spinning wheels. the folks that made that video obviously took the marketing opportunity to credit the drivetrain layout difference with its better capabilities, rather than the real cause of the advantage, the TC programming

i wonder if they had given the VW more throttle it would have been able to climb the ramp. in the LC200 vid posted above, they had to really put the wood to it to make it climb that spot, and that is a traction control system designed for offroad driving.

 

[Strizzo]

Not to take away to much from the heart of the topic, but we have been having the same conundrum about the car seats in a Subaru. There is a thread on car-seat.org that has photos of many different variations in the Subaru's. They have put three matching Britax seats side by side, and with one rear facing. Once you get them all buckled in (the part where you swear...) it isn't too bad. Then you utilize the 5 point harnesses.

We would like to get the 10' model Outback, as they are wider, but will have to settle on older one. Still should be a reasonable accommodation for our kids at 3,7, and 9.

hell, i've had three kids, ages 2-5 in the back seat of my old mazdaspeed3 for a day, two in car seats on the outside, and the oldest that was big enough to not need a carseat in the center . wouldn't want to do that every day, but it worked then.

 

[4x4abc]

Strizzo,

I think you are right on with your observation and conclusion

 

[AmericaOverland]

I don't know anything about the Subarus, but I've had my CR-V for nearly half a year now, and I've had a chance to drive it on a washboard rock road and a badly settling street, and in rain.

While the CR-V handles great (handling in wet weather really feels like driving on dry pavement), I notice that when I drive over washboard, a vibration at a certain frequency emanates and you can hear it mostly. It's a low rumbling down, and a bad section of a street here makes it do that. Yes, we actually have a washboard street. I don't know if it's a combination of wheelbase length and how the tires don't vibrate TOGETHER, but it's there. One thing that is potentially dangerous is driving in inches of water on the street. If you go fast enough, the low nose will not block the splash-up from the wheels from completely covering the windshield. It's very dangerous because you CANNOT see a thing for three critical seconds, so I avoid water unless I have to, and when I have to, I drive SLOWER than 20 MPH so it doesn't happen.

 

[rgc]

I just had to go through the search for a new car that could also be used by the whole family of five if needed. As we are on our second Honda Odyssey (wife's vehicle) I went to the CR-V first. I'm 6'1" and the average weight for a guy 10' tall. There was no comfort in the CR-V driver seat for me as I could not move it back far enough. I got lucky and found a great 04 Subaru Forester at a very good price. More then enough room for me in the front and in a pinch I can throw the three kids in the back seat (only one is in a booster now). I love my Honda Odyssey (family walked away from a head on when another drive crossed the interstate and hit our 02) and our 06 Touring has all the bells and whistles, but, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and my base model X with a stick is just perfect for me. Oh yeah, last tank averaged 26.6 mpg (good bit of highway on that one though).

rgc

 

[Bikemobile]

2005subaru outback 2.5i with the 4eat automatic.

Best car ive ever owned. Good mpg great ride, lots of room and safe. The crv has alot of cargo room. The subaru wins in my book for its sportiness, handling and far superior awd system.

 

[EMrider]

Another suby OB fan here.

We have an 09 with the 4 speed auto tranny and a 2010 with the new CVT tranny. AFAIK, both cars use the same 2.5l motor.

To my surprise, I much prefer the 2010. It is a more comfortable and feature rich design than the 09, and the CVT tranny drives very well. Very smooth and solid. Interestingly, the 2010 gets noticeably better MPG too, probably due to how the CVT manages RPMs. I average about 26mpg and have gotten well above 30mpg cruising at highway speeds.

R