Panhard bar with leaf springs.... ?

[Forsie]

I was thinking about how my trailer rides even after adding the shocks the other day :bike_rider:, which are a major improvement. I still feel like it sways a lot and just lacks some lateral stability. Since this thing already has a pretty high center of gravity that worries me a bit. I think it is mostly due to the narrow trailer leaf springs and mounts I used just not being wide enough to prevent side to side movement.

Im thinking about adding a Panhard bar to improve side loading performance and make this box ride a little better. Lots of vehicles use them in conjunction with leaf spring suspensions to add better handling characteristics, and I think that my trailer would benefit a good deal from having one.

I would also be able to raise the roll center by positioning the axle side mount as high as functionally possible under the box, for even more added stability.

Thoughts? :safari-rig:

 

[Lucky j]

Basic question, how much weight is about on your hitch when loaded ans not loaded?

 

[Forsie]

Hitch weight is (guessing here) around 150lbs loaded. The entire trailer is going to come in very light when complete, probably under or around 1000lbs loaded. Unloaded, i would say the whole thing weighs between 5-600, and tongue weight is probably 50 or 60... ?

I admittedly am not a trailer setup guru, but learning is good.

 

[BNJeepsta]

You need a sway bar, not a panhard bar. A panhard is used with a linked suspension to keep the axle centered. A sway bar will help with lateral stability and body roll. Lots of companies make swaybar link brackets and mounts. The rear sway bar from an XJ would work perfect on a small trailer and they are already set up to mount on top of the ubolt plates. :victory:

 

[Forsie]

I did think about a sway bar, but I don't want to limit the already limited amount of flex I get from the very short springs.

The panhard/ track bar would stop the swaying motion i am getting by locating the axle side to side, but not limiting independent wheel travel. I was just kinda wondering if anyone runs one on a small trailer?

 

[BNJeepsta]

A panhard will not stop the side to side swaying. The panhard is mounted from one side of the axle to the other side of the frame with joints or bushings on each end. This will still allow for the same amount of sway that you have now. The swaybar will stop the sway and, if you set the links correctly, will not kill wheel travel either. I have been building jeeps and fabricating suspension for a long time, i'm not just blowing smoke.

 

[Itsavanman]

why not look for a jeep sway bar that has disconnects? then you can undo them when you leave asphalt....

 

[Forsie]

I appreciate the input and thoughts. But I am still not convinced that a sway bar is the answer to my problem.

... I think it [my problem] is mostly due to the narrow trailer leaf springs and mounts I used just not being wide enough to prevent side to side movement.

Im thinking about adding a Panhard bar to improve side loading performance and make this box ride a little better. Lots of vehicles use them in conjunction with leaf spring suspensions to add better handling characteristics, and I think that my trailer would benefit a good deal from having one.

I would also be able to raise the roll center by positioning the axle side mount as high as functionally possible under the box, for even more added stability.

I do understand what a Panhard is/does, how it works, is set up, etc.

Let me clarify a little. I'm not talking about body roll, the trailer doesn't lean to one side when cornering. I am talking about lateral axle location, a function that the leaves seem to not be doing a great job of. The trailer kinda "wags" around a little after a bump, dampening the springs helped that by controlling rebound, so there is now less of it because the trailer doesnt keep bouncing after a bump, but the "wag" motion is still there.

Not trying to be a ********, just trying to clarify my thought, and I know here on the interwebs sometimes things come off a different way than intended...

 

[BNJeepsta]

I appreciate the input and thoughts. But I am still not convinced that a sway bar is the answer to my problem.




I do understand what a Panhard is/does, how it works, is set up, etc.

Let me clarify a little. I'm not talking about body roll, the trailer doesn't lean to one side when cornering. I am talking about lateral axle location, a function that the leaves seem to not be doing a great job of. The trailer kinda "wags" around a little after a bump, dampening the springs helped that by controlling rebound, so there is now less of it because the trailer doesnt keep bouncing after a bump, but the "wag" motion is still there.

Not trying to be a ********, just trying to clarify my thought, and I know here on the interwebs sometimes things come off a different way than intended...

Well, now that you describe it like that, a panhard may do what you're looking for. I have no idea what the underside of your trailer looks like but, if you have the room, try to make the panhard completely flat. I highly recommend RuffStuff Specialties. He has the weld on mounts, heim joints, misalignment spacers, inserts and even the DOM tubing if you don't have a local steel supply yard. Super high quality parts and great customer service as well.

 

[97kurt]

Well, now that you describe it like that, a panhard may do what you're looking for. I have no idea what the underside of your trailer looks like but, if you have the room, try to make the panhard completely flat. I highly recommend RuffStuff Specialties. He has the weld on mounts, heim joints, misalignment spacers, inserts and even the DOM tubing if you don't have a local steel supply yard. Super high quality parts and great customer service as well.

Poly bushing on one end, heim on the other for adjustability. My 4runner would "wag" over bumps when I had too short of a panhard, fixing that made a huge difference. I've seen solid axle trucks add panhards to help stability, but these trucks often had huge amounts of travel. I would guess your trailer has 2 to 3" of travel in each direction? Anyways, add a panhard, they take all of an hour or so to make and install if you buy pre-fab brackets. Just make it as long and as flat as possible.

 

[brian90744]

Sway, sway go away

Just looked at your trailer build, my guess is it weighs over 1200 lbs. with that spare wheel and table on the tailgate and less weigh on the front=sway. try without the spare and add it to the front for a test run?? just FYI=brian

 

[Forsie]

Im curious what about the trailer makes you estimate the weight to be so much more than i do?

Honestly the trailer handles pretty much the same with the spare on or off, maybe slightly more front weight bias with it off. It seems pretty balanced either way.

 

[brian90744]

Maybe we are both GUESSING, why not get it weighed to be sure, I still believe it tail heavy which will cause sway. just MO. =brian

 

[brianjwilson]

Personally I would start by mounting shocks properly. Yours are clearly way too long and mounted at what appears to be more than a 45 degree angle. They are almost useless in that location. They have almost NO leverage on the axle vertical movement. Get yourself a proper shock (going to have to be short obviously) and figure out a way to mount it vertically.

A good idea would also be to weigh the trailer and tongue and verify weight distribution. Additionally you would save yourself some more time by mounting a GoPro or similar under the trailer and get it to sway or wag, and identify the real issue. Maybe it is the leaf springs and hangar setup, but I'd bet most of it is from not being properly dampened or limited. The fact that your trailer caught air over a small bump and the tires stuffed into the fender should have told you something. A trailer doesn't need much travel as it doesn't need to flex side to side. Get a good, progressive bump stop mounted and proper shocks. Again a short shock is fine because you don't need a lot of travel, just use a good bump stop so you don't destroy the shock.

A weight carrying timbren rubber bump could be a decent idea as long as you confirm that axle centering isn't the problem. 5 minutes of a camera underneath will tell you if it's a problem or not.

Yes some leaf sprung front suspensions have used a panhard bar to help, this is because the side to side movement of the drag link pushes the axle when steering. I've never seen leaf springs and a panhard used together on anything but a steering axle. If you need a panhard bar to keep the axle centered with leaf springs, it's a band aid for a different issue IMO. It looks like you already spent money on improper shocks, I would definitely look at other ideas before wasting time and money on building a panhard bar just to go "hmm that didn't do it".

 

[brianjwilson]

Guys this is his shock mount.