Payload in Tacomas- Canopies and Suspension Question

[Clutch]

The payload for the Colorado might be "watered down" a bit, but the towing and offroad capabilities certainly aren't. I don't think the overseas versions get the front and rear locking diff's and wider track and offroad-tuned suspension.

That doesn't really impress me when you can do the same for cheaper with the aftermarket. Think the Tacoma Pro is kinda silly too. I know a lot of guys ooh and awwwe over that stuff...they just like paying too much for turn key. All that is, is an exercise in marketing...do wonder when the Lux truck bubble is going to burst.

Not saying that the ZR2 isn't cool, it is....But I am bottom line kind of guy (blame it on being self employed) want to see the cheapest I can do things.

For $50K+....Honestly.... for off-road performance think you're better off buying the cheapest tow vehicle you can find and get one of those gawd awful UTV things.

You can play the pessimist on Ford, but I think they do see a growing opportunity in the mid-sized segment and will play their hand accordingly. Other than updating the interior, there isn't a whole lot they need to do with the T6 Ranger platform....it's been pretty well tested and vetted in Australia and other markets. Purely speculation on my part, but I don't think Ford will make many, if any, changes to that platform when they finally sell it in North America.

Both the Tacoma and GM use lighter frames than the Global counter part....expecting Ford will do the same. Would be nice if they didn't....it is unlikely that we will get the payload capacities of the Global T6. Diesel, manual trans, 2000 lbs payload, (and a Tray-Back perhaps) would be ideal....all available in the XL model to boot. HIGHLY doubt that Ford will bring it over.

GM not offering the diesel in the WT extra-cab with a manual misses the mark for me, imagine Ford will do the same. Tacoma comes the closest. ACLB with a choice of two engines, and two manual trans options...just no diesel...I can live without a diesel.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Can you point me to specifics that the GM trucks use a different frame than the global vehicle. I don't doubt but would like to see a source for that.

BTW, Nissan is lost in this discussion. Are the Frontier and Navara the same platform? The name Frontier is shared throughout The Americas, Navara being used in Europe, Asia and Australia. I was under the assumption that D40 was the D40 no matter what you called it.

It's not impossible that Ford decides to build the same chassis, I would think the point of introducing the Ranger and Transits would be to share engineering and supply chains.

That's what Toyota does so effectively, a global philosophy that can be plugged into regional and domestic production. It allows them flexibility to meet demand in the event of an planned or unplanned hitch. Other than the specifics about the Tundra, Tacoma and Sequoia all their other vehicles seem to be clones. So Corolla engines could be built in Kentucky or Japan, it wouldn't matter.

 

[Clutch]

Can you point me to specifics that the GM trucks use a different frame than the global vehicle. I don't doubt but would like to see a source for that.

It is built 40% lighter, payload is lower than the Global version. Now whether that is due to frame, spring spec, or both. I don't know. Guessing both.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/chevrolet/colorado/2015/2015-chevrolet-colorado-first-look/

BTW, Nissan is lost in this discussion. Are the Frontier and Navara the same platform? The name Frontier is shared throughout The Americas, Navara being used in Europe, Asia and Australia. I was under the assumption that D40 was the D40 no matter what you called it.

Hmmm...I don't know. Curious to find out though.

 

[DaveInDenver]

Interesting.

Instead of seeing this as a rehashed truck from another market, though, it's more accurate to look at it as a scaled-down Silverado, as few of the chassis components are shared with the global truck. The frame is about 40 percent lighter than the global Colorado's frame; the new unit is fully boxed and uses liberal amounts of high-strength steel.

I like how they present it, "rehashed truck from another market", which translated means we neutered a legitimate small work truck to make a body-on-frame car.

 

[Dalko43]

That doesn't really impress me when you can do the same for cheaper with the aftermarket. Think the Tacoma Pro is kinda silly too. I know a lot of guys ooh and awwwe over that stuff...they just like paying too much for turn key. All that is, is an exercise in marketing...do wonder when the Lux truck bubble is going to burst.

Doesn't matter if it impresses you or not, the media reviews and sales performance speaks to the truck's capabilities and market demand. People have been paying outrageous prices for a bunch of different 'offroad' versions of vehicles...the lux bubble will bust when peoples' wallets and credit goes bad.

And yes, $40-$50 is getting a bit high for mid-sized truck, though I will note you do get more for your money with the ZR2 versus what you're getting with a "TRD" Tacoma or 4runner (which pretty much consists of a mild suspension lift and some badging).

For $50K+....Honestly.... for off-road performance think you're better off buying the cheapest tow vehicle you can find and get one of those gawd awful UTV things.

Or just wait a few years and let other people soak up the depreciation hits and buy them when they're at better values. It's without a doubt a plus that we have such trucks (tacoma, colorado, upcoming ranger) available in our market....but no one is saying you have to buy them brand new.

Both the Tacoma and GM use lighter frames than the Global counter part....expecting Ford will do the same. Would be nice if they didn't....it is unlikely that we will get the payload capacities of the Global T6. Diesel, manual trans, 2000 lbs payload, (and a Tray-Back perhaps) would be ideal....all available in the XL model to boot. HIGHLY doubt that Ford will bring it over.

Yes, but we've been over this before. Just because the NA Colorado's frame is lighter doesn't mean it is necessarily weaker or less capable in terms of payload. I'd guess that suspension tuning and engine cooling has more to do with the payload and towing stats for the NA version than does the frame construction in this case.

As for Ford not using the global T6 platform, well I guess we'll have to wait and see. My fingers are crossed hoping that Ford will use the same frame/platform.

 

[Clutch]

Doesn't matter if it impresses you or not, the media reviews and sales performance speaks to the truck's capabilities and market demand. People have been paying outrageous prices for a bunch of different 'offroad' versions of vehicles...the lux bubble will bust when peoples' wallets and credit goes bad.

And yes, $40-$50 is getting a bit high for mid-sized truck, though I will note you do get more for your money with the ZR2 versus what you're getting with a "TRD" Tacoma or 4runner (which pretty much consists of a mild suspension lift and some badging).

Oh it is totally capable and cool.

Do wonder if they would sell them [Lux trucks] if people had to pay cash for them, instead of credit backed by a fiat currency....yikes!

Or just wait a few years and let other people soak up the depreciation hits and buy them when they're at better values. It's without a doubt a plus that we have such trucks (tacoma, colorado, upcoming ranger) available in our market....but no one is saying you have to buy them brand new.

In the case of a Tacoma it is almost better to buy new with the nutty resale prices. Time will tell if the GM twins will have good resale.

Yes, but we've been over this before. Just because the NA Colorado's frame is lighter doesn't mean it is necessarily weaker or less capable in terms of payload. I'd guess that suspension tuning and engine cooling has more to do with the payload and towing stats for the NA version than does the frame construction in this case.

We have been over this before...the US spec indeed has 600 lbs less payload than the Oversea's model. Why is that, the frame, the springs...both? I don't know, do you?

Given that fact that the frame is 40% lighter I would assume it is major part of that.

As for Ford not using the global T6 platform, well I guess we'll have to wait and see. My fingers are crossed hoping that Ford will use the same frame/platform.

Yep, be nice if they didn't change a thing. But not holding my breath. I know some are concerned it will eat into F150 sales. I don't look at it that way, if it is successful it would be pulling sales away from Toyota, GM, and Nissan.

 

[Dalko43]

In the case of a Tacoma it is almost better to buy new with the nutty resale prices. Time will tell if the GM twins will have good resale.

Not really. Mildly used (under 60k) base trim 4wd Tacomas can be had for under $19k, which is saving a fair bit of money over buying one brand new at $25k-$26k. Tacoma's tend to depreciate slower than other vehicles, but they still depreciate.

We have been over this before...the US spec indeed has 600 lbs less payload than the Oversea's model. Why is that, the frame, the springs...both? I don't know, do you?

Given that fact that the frame is 40% lighter I would assume it is major part of that.

Agreed on the lower payload. But you've made this assumption before and I'll remind you again that it is not necessarily accurate: just because a frame is lighter doesn't necessarily mean it is capable of carrying less payload. You're right, I don't know the full engineering background on the exact differences between the NA platform and global version of the Colorado (I've yet to see anyone publish such info). But it makes no sense for you to complain about the NA Colorado's lighter frame without all the details. For all we know, the restricted payload could have been due to GM's suspension choices or just an arbitrary label to prevent marketing conflicts with the Silverado.

 

[Adventurous]

Not really. Mildly used (under 60k) base trim 4wd Tacomas can be had for under $19k, which is saving a fair bit of money over buying one brand new at $25k-$26k. Tacoma's tend to depreciate slower than other vehicles, but they still depreciate.

Sadly that's not the case round these parts. When I was shopping in 2014, 2012 model years with 40K on them were going for $2-3K less than a brandy new one. To me that wasn't enough of a price difference to warrant buying a used one, but I certainly recognize that CO is a bit of an outlier when it comes to Tacoma resale.

 

[calicamper]

The GM weight loss was probably many parts that were upgraded for the NA version both to shed weight and help put them in the top mileage bracket with the diesel. The frame is probably different for the NA version due to crash standards more than anything else.

Also payload numbers over seas vs here are apples and bannanas even maxed out at US payload weights the trucks are not really that great on anything but slow secondary roads. So this banter is pretty stupid. Even if we had the same exact truck here even with the over seas load ratings you would see lots of threads about how terrible they are at max loads limits and not safe for highway use etc.

Most people who never travel outside the US think that everyone else has higher speeds etc. Not really the case even when they do have higher limits in rare cases very few people ever go fast. Primary reason is risk and not all that great of emergency services. Another words self preservation tends to limit speeds. But here in the states you can do a 1000 mile trip at 70-85mph easy. Our use here in the states is very different than pretty much everywhere else.

 

[Clutch]

Not really. Mildly used (under 60k) base trim 4wd Tacomas can be had for under $19k, which is saving a fair bit of money over buying one brand new at $25k-$26k. Tacoma's tend to depreciate slower than other vehicles, but they still depreciate.

Sadly that's not the case round these parts. When I was shopping in 2014, 2012 model years with 40K on them were going for $2-3K less than a brandy new one. To me that wasn't enough of a price difference to warrant buying a used one, but I certainly recognize that CO is a bit of an outlier when it comes to Tacoma resale.

Depends what part of the country you are looking at, in the salt belt the prices aren't bad...I won't go near anything no matter the brand where they use salt on the road. Out here in the West, like what Adventurous said...prices are still high...and get higher when you are looking for an ACLB V6 4WD with a manual trans. Either they are beat rust buckets, high miles or both. Extremely hard to find one sub 50K miles that is under $20K...at that point might as well spend and extra $5K and get a brand new 4 banger SR...won't be a V6, but at least it is brandy new.

Agreed on the lower payload. But you've made this assumption before and I'll remind you again that it is not necessarily accurate: just because a frame is lighter doesn't necessarily mean it is capable of carrying less payload. You're right, I don't know the full engineering background on the exact differences between the NA platform and global version of the Colorado (I've yet to see anyone publish such info). But it makes no sense for you to complain about the NA Colorado's lighter frame without all the details. For all we know, the restricted payload could have been due to GM's suspension choices or just an arbitrary label to prevent marketing conflicts with the Silverado.

I would assume they used a thinner gauge steel to get that 40% lighter frame. Would like to know the tensile strength between the two frames. In bicycles, yeah lighter steel can mean stronger depending on what alloy is used, which becomes expensive. But I don't think GM uses a better steel than what is used in the Global truck. Bet my grandmother's change purse that GM used a cheaper thinner steel.

Whether the payload is lower because of either physical or simply on paper. It is a shame to offer a nice little torquey engine if you can't really load it up with much of anything. You can get a bed delete on the WT trim, which gives a 2200# payload, but only offered in the V6 2WD...no bed, transfer case, front diff, front drive shaft, CV'c, etc...is where the weight savings comes in, to yield that payload.

 

[Clutch]

Also payload numbers over seas vs here are apples and bannanas even maxed out at US payload weights the trucks are not really that great on anything but slow secondary roads. So this banter is pretty stupid. Even if we had the same exact truck here even with the over seas load ratings you would see lots of threads about how terrible they are at max loads limits and not safe for highway use etc.

hmmm...maybe...stock springs vs. OME HD's on my Taco is night and day how it carries a load. I don't even like to go near payload, but with 1000 lbs you would have to go slow with the stockers and totally fine with the OME's, heck, can go even faster.

IIRC payload for my truck is 1588#.

Most people who never travel outside the US think that everyone else has higher speeds etc. Not really the case even when they do have higher limits in rare cases very few people ever go fast. Primary reason is risk and not all that great of emergency services. Another words self preservation tends to limit speeds. But here in the states you can do a 1000 mile trip at 70-85mph easy. Our use here in the states is very different than pretty much everywhere else.

I have traveled outside the US...yeah you think California drivers are nuts...go down to Mexico with their horrible skinny rough roads...boy howdy, they are insane! Pass you like you're standing still! Have you not seen those videos of India!!?? Zipping around trucks that are half made of wood...self preservation....pffffttt....everyone I have talked that has been to India swears they'll never go back.

So this banter is pretty stupid.

BANTER!!?? Ha ha....Hell, that is what the internet is all about! Arguing over utter nonsense that we have no control over. Payload, torque, gas milege, price, c-channel vs boxed, yadda yadda ya.....meh, who really cares! I am sure we all would be better off in a 15 year old beat up Honda Civic and a cheap tent. We on here arguing for the sake of arguing...all good fun! No one really cares what the subject matter is, as long as they win the argument! LOL

 

[calicamper]

hmmm...maybe...stock springs vs. OME HD's on my Taco is night and day how it carries a load. I don't even like to go near payload, but with 1000 lbs you would have to go slow with the stockers and totally fine with the OME's, heck, can go even faster.

IIRC payload for my truck is 1588#.



I have traveled outside the US...yeah you think California drivers a nuts...go down to Mexico with their horrible roads...boy howdy, they are insane! Pass you like you're standing still! Have you not seen those videos of India!!?? Zipping around trucks that are half made of wood...self preservation....pffffttt....everyone I have talked that has been to India swears they'll never go back.

Umm yea my group started a tech office there in 96 long before it became the rage. We bought a retired 3 ton army truck to use as the office transport after two of us ended up through a store front in a hired car after being hit by another car. Fast there is like 30mph and rarely ever seen given the lousy traffic.

 

[Dalko43]

Whether the payload is lower because of either physical or simply on paper. It is a shame to offer a nice little torquey engine if you can't really load it up with much of anything. You can get a bed delete on the WT trim, which gives a 2200# payload, but only offered in the V6 2WD...no bed, transfer case, front diff, front drive shaft, CV'c, etc...is where the weight savings comes in, to yield that payload.

If you want a 4x4 with a 2,200lb payload, get a 1/2 ton.

 

[Clutch]

Umm yea my group started a tech office there in 96 long before it became the rage. We bought a retired 3 ton army truck to use as the office transport after two of us ended up through a store front in a hired car after being hit by another car. Fast there is like 30mph and rarely ever seen given the lousy traffic.

Their idea of public safety is non-existant....ever try and drive at night there...good galore...better off pulling waaaay off the road sleep until morning. I'll have to find the pics of the onion and fertilizer trucks that collided with one another, when some knucklehead tried to pass one of them around blind corner. Onions mixed liquid fertilizer strewn all over the road...what a mess. We ran the trucks through it, it melted the paint right off.

If you want a 4x4 with a 2,200lb payload, get a 1/2 ton.

Too big! As Dave said, they are bigger by a foot in a game of inches! Think my wife talked me out of a camper anyways. Payload isn't much of issue.

I mean look! Midsizes are as big as the old fullsizes. Everything keeps on getting bigger and bigger, when will it end?

 

[calicamper]

Their idea of public safety is non-existant....ever try and drive at night there...good galore...better off pulling waaaay off the road sleep until morning. I'll have to find the pics of the onion and fertilizer trucks that collided with one another, when some knucklehead tried to pass one of them around blind corner. Onions mixed liquid fertilizer strewn all over the road...what a mess. We ran the trucks through it, it melted the paint right off.



Too big! As Dave said, they are bigger by a foot in a game of inches! Think my wife talked me out of a camper anyways. Payload isn't much of issue.

I mean look! Midsizes are as big as the old fullsizes. Everything keeps on getting bigger and bigger, when will it end?

View attachment 415215

Yup lol

The US CG weights were updated last yr for aircraft and boats. 180lbs per adult vs 160. Were all getting bigger but maybe not in the right way LOL