Planning the New Exp. Trailer

[Section 8]

The little center cap about 2 1/2" in diameter in the very center that covers the castle nut that holds everything else on. Most aluminum wheels have the caps on them, and it contains a logo of some sort.

Kids in my area had taken to leaving the center caps off their wheels and painting that nut a color that matched their brake drums, and what ever they could paint a contrasting color.

The cars/trucks I have taken apart, have the same castle nut that is displayed in that picture, but they don't have the domed cap on them. I have a feeling that it is because trailers have steel wheels with minimum thickness, that when you bolt them to the wheel mounting surface, the hub pokes through the wheel, and that has become the industry standard. Where in automobiles, that is deemed to ugly, so the wheels are much thicker, with recessed lugs, so that when you put the wheel on, there is a space under the wheel for that nut, so it doesn't have to stick out. Since it is covered, there doesn't need to be an additional domed cap stuck on there.

I am interested in this because I bought 2 wheels/tires identical to those on my Jeep and it didn't even occure to me that they wouldn't fit on an axle of the proper bolt pattern.

 

[TheGillz]

We are having the same issue in planning to use same stock JK wheels with the trailer build that we are planning. I am interested in if they make hubs w/out the protruding center piece, or at least one that isn't more than 2" in diameter.

 

[GeoTracker90]

The little center cap about 2 1/2" in diameter in the very center that covers the castle nut that holds everything else on. Most aluminum wheels have the caps on them, and it contains a logo of some sort.

Kids in my area had taken to leaving the center caps off their wheels and painting that nut a color that matched their brake drums, and what ever they could paint a contrasting color.

The kids that are doing this I would presume have newer FWD cars. In that circumstance the bearings are a sealed design w/o any exposed grease or bearings to trap dirt, debris or water.

The cars/trucks I have taken apart, have the same castle nut that is displayed in that picture, but they don't have the domed cap on them. I have a feeling that it is because trailers have steel wheels with minimum thickness, that when you bolt them to the wheel mounting surface, the hub pokes through the wheel, and that has become the industry standard. Where in automobiles, that is deemed to ugly, so the wheels are much thicker, with recessed lugs, so that when you put the wheel on, there is a space under the wheel for that nut, so it doesn't have to stick out. Since it is covered, there doesn't need to be an additional domed cap stuck on there.

Bearing design has not changed because one style is uglier than the other, but has been driven by assembly line production times. A sealed bearing unit in an automotive assembly line can be installed in about 60 seconds vs. a couple of minutes for traditional, unsealed, pack it with grease, make a mess bearings. If you look at the PDF from Redneck Trailer in the following link it will show a Nev-R-Lube, or sealed, bearing that they are offering on their trailer axles and an E-Z Lube that has traditional bearings, but has a passage through the spindle for adding grease.

Redneck Trailer PDF

Note how much different the bearing spacing is between the two styles. Even if you had an axle with the Nev-R-Lube bearings I would not take a chance of contaminating the bearings by running them w/o the cap. Down side of the Nev-R-Lube axle is that, from what I can see, they only offer this option with a 6 on 5-1/2" bolt pattern.

I am interested in this because I bought 2 wheels/tires identical to those on my Jeep and it didn't even occure to me that they wouldn't fit on an axle of the proper bolt pattern.

As you found out you have to match both the bolt pattern of the hub and wheel as well as the center hole of the wheel and the hub dimernsions.

With all of that said I have ran a trailer with out an axle seal for about 250 miles. Why? Well water had gotten past the original seal, mixed with the grease and then heated the bearings untill they failed. In failing it also heated the spindle enough to distort the seal surface and raise a burr that would have destroyed a new seal. Did I make it home? Yes. Did I stop every 50 miles to check the bearings? Yes. Was I on an Interstate and not in the dirt and dust and creek crossings? Yes.

Sorry for the long winded response, but I thought that some of these issues needed to be clarified.

Mike

 

[Section 8]

As far as "ugly" driving bearing design, I never said that it did. I sad that it drove wheel design. If cars went to sealed bearings and thick wheels, then that is probably why trucks soon followed since big hubs sticking out of wheels went with the old deep dish wheels. I didn't know about the sealed bearings, thanks for pointing that out.

While a good story, it doesn't illistrate anything about my question of weather a wheel with a center cap is a replacement for the domed cap. It addresses why it needs to be covered, but not anything useful that the cap provides, or why covering the bearings with it, or something else makes any difference. So while a snappy answer, I don't see how it added anything to the thread, nobody indicated that running around without some sort of cover on the hub was a good idea.

 

[JeepN95YJ]

\While a good story, it doesn't illistrate anything about my question of weather a wheel with a center cap is a replacement for the domed cap. It addresses why it needs to be covered, but not anything useful that the cap provides, or why covering the bearings with it, or something else makes any difference. So while a snappy answer, I don't see how it added anything to the thread, nobody indicated that running around without some sort of cover on the hub was a good idea.

Strange post...I don't see a reason for the sarcasm...seemed as if Geo was offering well-stated info to your question, not a "snappy answer".

Your answer is NO. Having a wheel with a centercap is not a replacement for the Domed spindle bearing cap. The press fit of the spindle cap will do a very good job of keeping water out. Most of the center caps on today's wheels are simply spring loaded or bolt on from the back but do nothing to actually help seal the bearing.

Geo also pointed out that the reason your assumption that "trailers and the [cars that you have taken apart] have the same castle nut, so they must be the same" is incorrect. Different bearing design is why trailers have a spindle bearing cap and sealed unit bearings to not.

So...the "snappy answer" added much to the thread if a person , such as yourself, is confused about the differences in bearing design.

 

[GeoTracker90]

Sorry, no snap intended.

Section 8, I like your screen name. About a mile from me resides

This P-51 also goes by the moniker of Section 8. Check out the library of planes at the Legacy Flight Museum.

OK, tangent off. Please resume with original thread message.

Mike

 

[mjm]

I have an M416 trailer I rebuilt. The Army TM requires a sealer, like RTV, to be used on the caps. Although the caps have to be tapped on with a hammer, the Army was concerned water would get in and damage the bearings. Without the hub cap, there is no protection. The cap on the wheel is for appearance and will still let dust and water into the bearings.

If you could find a hub with sealed bearings, you might not need a cap.

 

[Section 8]

Sorry, no snap intended.

Section 8, I like your screen name. About a mile from me resides

This P-51 also goes by the moniker of Section 8. Check out the library of planes at the Legacy Flight Museum.

OK, tangent off. Please resume with original thread message.

Mike

No problem. I just wanted a direct answer and it was just frustrating when I don't know what the "issue" is, and everyone is pointing out what is wrong with what I am trying to use to get the point accross instead of use to to try and figuer out what it is that IS the problem. its not like I was telling someone to do it; I was asking why you can't.

I like P-51s, they were my favorite plane as a kid, then I found the P38. Still like the P38 and A10s. Something about ugly planes I guess.

 

[ntsqd]

Looking at the link that Geo posted I find that I'm not interested in the "Nev-R-Lube" either, but for a different reason. Note how close together the bearings are compared to the E-Z Lube. That close spacing is never a good plan in a vehicle wheel bearing. I know that all late models are done this way. Doesn't make it a good idea, just a convenient one.