Please educate me on Lights....

[Zaphod]

I have a 2000 Isuzu Trooper that I have been working on modifying since I snagged it in 2003. The fact that most of the modifications have only been done on PAPER is a result of an annoyingly-persistent lack of cash, but that's neither here nor there...

Since I am still quite new to all this, I am seeking an education on lights. My experience with them is limited to those installed in the factory, namely the usual low/hi beam headlights and the auxiliary "foglights".

Please bear with me and my ignorance...

QUESTION #1: Are foglights really worth it? I live in an area (upstate NY) that does get fog on a routine basis, so their need is valid. However, my experience with foglights has been lackluster at best. No fewer than four vehicles that I've had have brought them, and they have all been factory installations. None of them were found to be particularly effective in fog. I conclude, therefore, that either a) foglights aren't all they are toted as being, or b) foglights ARE what they are toted as being, it's just that the ones I've had to use weren't very good.

Moving on...

I am a real PITA when it comes to installations. I'm one of these weirdos that likes the dashboard to look as "factory" as possible, so switches, gauges, etc. that aren't installed cleanly really get under my skin. To that end, I have purchased and installed (but not connected) additional factory foglight switches that I would like to use to power the following groups of lights:

1) Fog Lights (Replacing the factory foglights and using the original wiring)
2) Driving Lights (I view these as two driving lights mounted on the bull bar and intended for long-range illumination)
3) Floodlights (I view these as 2-4 lights mounted on the roof rack and illuminating forward)
4) Rear Floodlights (1-2 lights on the rear of the roof rack and intended for backing up or general camp illumination)

I have four factory switches that I hope to wire for these.

QUESTION #2: I know that the aftermarket lights are run through relays. Can these relays be installed into the empty relay slots in my under-hood fusebox, or do they get mounted elsewhere? Can my factory switches be wired to operate the relays and therefore the lights? Is that complicated?

QUESTION #3: I imagine this varies from model to model, but let's take the example of the PIAA 580 system. This lamp can do fog, driving, and pencil beams. First, is it advisable to use a "jack of all trades" light or a few "master of a trade" lights for given purposes? Second, what does the control switch for such a unit look and function like? I ask because of....

QUESTION#4: Does any consideration need to be given to aftermarket lights with regard to the function that factory foglights have where they shut off if you hit the hi-beams on the regular headlights? Sheesh, that confuses me, and I WROTE it! :Wow1:

Thanks for all the help.

 

[R_Lefebvre]

1: I have also found that the majority of OEM foglights are completely worthless, and nothing more than styling exercises. The best I've ever had, are those on my Disco, and they are just OK. I've never actually tried to run with only them on (they are wired to only work with low beams on). But, I can see that they illuminate more than just 4 feet in front of the car like most OEM fogs.

2: If you got matching fuses and wiring connectors, and you were really ambitious, I don't see why you couldn't install the relays in the empty sockets. Would be a super clean install, but also lots of extra work. The easiest thing to do is just install aftermarket relays somewhere else that's easier to work with. Factory switches could be used, and I have in the past. Can sometimes be easier than running new switches, sometimes harder, kinda depends on what you're trying to accomplish exactly.

3. I'm guessing those have to suck... first because I'm not a fan of PIAA... But mostly because yes, I can't see how one light can do everything as well as a dedicated light. Nowhere in that page could I see an explanation of HOW they work.

4. The only applicable law I can think of is that you can never have more than 4 beams at one time. You can have fogs on with low beams, or you could have fogs on with high beams (legally), but you can't have all 6 lights on at the same time, if you have quad lights. (individual highs and lows).

 

[Zaphod]

Factory switches could be used, and I have in the past. Can sometimes be easier than running new switches, sometimes harder, kinda depends on what you're trying to accomplish exactly.

In my case, I'd have to run wires regardless. My existing switches replaced empty dash holes and have no wiring behind them. The goal, at least inside the cabin, is to have a "stock" look. As for the relays, I'll just mount them someplace. I asked because I saw a number of "unused relay" slots in my fuse box and wondered if I could use those.

first because I'm not a fan of PIAA

Any reason why? As I said, I'm totally new to all this.

The only applicable law I can think of is that you can never have more than 4 beams at one time. You can have fogs on with low beams, or you could have fogs on with high beams (legally), but you can't have all 6 lights on at the same time, if you have quad lights. (individual highs and lows).

I'm assuming that's on the regular road, yes? Doesn't apply off-road?

Thanks for the tidbit, though. I didn't know of that limitation.

 

[tamangel]

check with your State DMV re: number and placement of primary and additional vehicle lights and positioning for on-road use and/or disabling off-road lights when on state roads. As far as quad headlights (separate hi and lo beams fixtures), a high and low beam headlight illuminated together is considered one light, not 2. So if you only had quad lights (I'm talking factory design here) on your vehicle and they were all illuminated, that would count as 2 forward facing lights only, not 4.. Check w/ NY's code to verify however..

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/equi-vt.htm#1.

scroll done to section on lighting..

Mike

Do you see the light? (starts @ 2min mark..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5N4KrZ0pw

 

[Zaphod]

Do you see the light? (starts @ 2min mark..)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k5N4KrZ0pw

The BAND! :wings:

Love that movie!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

Any reason why? As I said, I'm totally new to all this.

I find they charge a lot of money for some stuff that isn't that great. They also sell a lot of absolute junk. For example, they are purveyors of "80W=130W Extreme White" bulbs which are crap.

You can do better with more reputable brands like Hella, LightForce, etc.

 

[mauricio_28]

The 'cleanest' set-up would be one in which there are no additional switches at all, and the additional lights are all controlled and in sync with the stock lights (fog, driving beams, high beams and parking lights), no?

 

[CanuckMariner/Nomad]

The 'cleanest' set-up would be one in which there are no additional switches at all, and the additional lights are all controlled and in sync with the stock lights (fog, driving beams, high beams and parking lights), no?

Salamat Malam, Pak (lived/worked/played in Balikpapan for 5 years - Huffco)..that's easier said than done. Also, I don't know about the rest of you but I like to have my lights work when I want them to and not when my headlights come on, or park lights, or high beams. Also, there is a law in Kanukistan (maybe in Yanksville as well) that says no more than 4 lights on, on the front of your vehicle at a time. Off on the trail, thats a different thing.

I have six lights on the front, two sets of hi/lo beams (one narrow [factory] and one wide beam[JDM]) and two 170 fogs or whatever the situation/filter calls for in either a wide or pencil adjustment. When I am on the trail or in the desert, lots, it is like daylight in front of me! Fog/amber filters adjusted to pencil beams makes a big difference when going through the passes (ID/MT) in the fall and spring on your way or way home from the deserts.

Relays are best as they take the jolt of juice before the switch does. Just need to find a meat place to install them, I too am looking for a relay block...so let me know if you find one.

 

[MuddyMudskipper]

QUESTION #3: I imagine this varies from model to model, but let's take the example of the PIAA 580 system. This lamp can do fog, driving, and pencil beams. First, is it advisable to use a "jack of all trades" light or a few "master of a trade" lights for given purposes? Second, what does the control switch for such a unit look and function like? I ask because of....

The 580 is a series and not an all inclusive lamp. There is one model for each type of light, a driving, a pencil, and a fog with the difference being the lense. Other than that the housings, wiring, and bulbs are identical. I'd also like to add that the fog lamp has a wide flat light pattern and in my experience not too effective when the lamps are mounted on or above the bumper in the soup.

As for the switch, it is a small push button on/off deal with an LED "on" indicator. It is not uncommon for people to use factory switches for their aftermarket set ups. I have seen simple jump clips used and pin matching on the more anal installs. On my truck I did neither simply for the ease of installation.

I have installed Hella Black Magics, Rallye 4000's as well as PIAA 580's, 510's, and backup floods on some vehicles and I like the PIAA harness and switch better than the Hella harness/switch but I like the Hella lamps better. However, I think Hella has cleaned up their harnesses (in 2006?) since I did those installs.

Here are the pics of the PIAA harness:

 

[Zaphod]

Also, I don't know about the rest of you but I like to have my lights work when I want them to and not when my headlights come on, or park lights, or high beams.

I agree 100%.

The 580 is a series and not an all inclusive lamp.

Oh. Oops.

 

[86cj]

I find they charge a lot of money for some stuff that isn't that great. They also sell a lot of absolute junk. For example, they are purveyors of "80W=130W Extreme White" bulbs which are crap.

You can do better with more reputable brands like Hella, LightForce, etc.

I have used Hella, KC, and others in the past and none of them worked everyday just like OEM lights do. The salt and deteriorating road surfaces combined with poor quality harness's have made them only last a short time.

I have had a set of PIAA 1500 lights on my big truck since 1998 and a set on the wifes ZR-2 blazer since 2000, that is alot of winters and her's are hooked to the DRL's so they are on everyday. There has been no problems at all, they work everday just like OEM, so remember these are real world experiences not a attitude about the price.
I will however share that the PIAA bulbs last no better than a basic cheap bulb, and maybee less. I just think 10years and no failures deserved credit where it's due. I also put a set of PIAA 1500 backup lights on my JEEP, the harness was a treat to install and it has a switch on the dash for manual override.

 

[LIVEABOARD]

educate ur self

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/

THE BEST IN THE BIZZ

 

[West Coast Mags]

Thanks for the link to Daniel Stern, I found the tech article helpful.

 

[toyrunner95]

I have run 3 or 4 sets of KCs and i just don't like em. They are expensive, and hard to work on. The screws always strip out, the ball joint thing that let you adjust the lights you can never get just right.

I have run PIAAs and i like them, but i don't like their switch. It looks ghetto to have a wire sticking out some dash panel.

The Hellas i have used seem to be rather durable and fairly inexpensive. Plus the switches are interchangeable with just about anything.

I say get Hellas

 

[CanuckMariner/Nomad]

Depending on how many factory blanks (positions where a switch could be installed and the blank just covers the position and is easily removed) came with your truck, you might be able to go to a junk yard and get some switches from a similar model and use these. This gives your rig a more professional look especially if you can get switches that serve the purpose you want.

Toyotas are great for this as the switches for some model years span a decade or more and come in all types of varieties..deck lights switches, window (up/down) momentary switches (to have to hold them down to work) great for winches in/out switch, window heater switches, some even come with a light for the on position. I am sure your truck has similar variety switches.

Good luck and have fun..that's what it is really all about!