polyurethane or rubber bushungs
- Thread starter cr500taco
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SWITAWI
Doesn't Get Out Enough
I put Energy Suspension bushings on the front control arms of my GTI when I upgraded the suspension and it steered like a go-kart (relative to stock) for over a year. After 2yrs (guessing ~25k miles) it wasn't so great and my front tire wear started looking wonky. Upon dis-assembly I could see where the center hole in the horizontal front control arm bushing sort of elongated into an oval shape around the bolt sleeve. One guy at Neuspeed even told me that some poly would 'cold-flow' over time on a street car but were okay on track cars that don't see a lot of run time and get frequent teardown. Eventually i got lucky and found a harder durometer rubber set that came out of VW Motorsport. Still somewhat lost the instant turn-in response I had with the poly bushings, but I gained back the longevity of the OEM parts.
So, to me at least...
Poly bushings cannot be beat for a while, but they don't last as long as OEM rubber.
Rubber bushings have more give (better offroad) and less instant response, and will eventually outlast the poly over time.
Can anyone else corroborate or had a different experience?
:beer:
So, to me at least...
Poly bushings cannot be beat for a while, but they don't last as long as OEM rubber.
Rubber bushings have more give (better offroad) and less instant response, and will eventually outlast the poly over time.
Can anyone else corroborate or had a different experience?
:beer:
PirateMcGee
Expedition Leader
Rubber. Poly can be squeaky and OEM bushing last longer.
greengreer
Adventurer
In a compression setting (like a spring insulator, swaybar endlinks, etc) polyurethane is fine. As far as I know, SWITAWI is on the money when it comes to rotational bushings like control arms, trackbars, etc. Poly should not be used on leaf spring bushings, IMO. they need to be able to have some side to side play that only rubber can give. Under cornering forces they can bind and become essentially ineffective. This knowledge comes from my street/track car days and there may be some differences in 4x4 applications.
1stDeuce
Explorer
Actually, Poly is generally better in a compression environment, but worse everywhere else, for the reasons pointed out above.
I consider poly bushings a poor choice for just about every application they're offered for, though sometimes it's the only choice that will work, like high travel systems. That's because Poly is generally not bonded to the inner or outer bushing sleeve, whereas rubber generally is. When a bonded rubber bushing sees torsional deflection, it causes stress in the rubber, and can lead to failure. Poly just rotates on the greased center sleeve. No stress, but you have to keep up with greasing.
I consider poly bushings a poor choice for just about every application they're offered for, though sometimes it's the only choice that will work, like high travel systems. That's because Poly is generally not bonded to the inner or outer bushing sleeve, whereas rubber generally is. When a bonded rubber bushing sees torsional deflection, it causes stress in the rubber, and can lead to failure. Poly just rotates on the greased center sleeve. No stress, but you have to keep up with greasing.
Thanks all for your in puts I was reading, today, I believe on offroad.com, that poly is good to be used on steering because it's harder and rubber is good to be used on the suspension because it's softer.
I have heard that Poly is harder than rubber, therefore it lasts longer than rubber.
My understanding is that OEM is better than aftermarket rubber. is that correct?
Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
I have heard that Poly is harder than rubber, therefore it lasts longer than rubber.
My understanding is that OEM is better than aftermarket rubber. is that correct?
Sent from my SM-T700 using Tapatalk
4x4junkie
Explorer
I've used both Energy Suspension, and Daystar for poly bushings. For the most part they seem pretty comparable, though I have seen on some applications Energy uses different hardness materials in different regions of the bushing (Ford TTB pivot bushings for example), which I haven't seen on Daystar stuff yet.
As for rubber vs. poly, both do have advantages and disadvantages. When new poly is indeed much tighter and controlling, but I've had poly bushings wallow out in the middle over time, leaving slop in the bushing. I suspect black poly bushings will outlive any colored stuff.
I think where the bushing is used (how much stress it's under) affects how long it'll last... I have poly body mount bushings that still look good as when I put them in 20 years ago, where suspension bushings I've had do what I mentioned above after maybe 5-7 years.
As for rubber vs. poly, both do have advantages and disadvantages. When new poly is indeed much tighter and controlling, but I've had poly bushings wallow out in the middle over time, leaving slop in the bushing. I suspect black poly bushings will outlive any colored stuff.
I think where the bushing is used (how much stress it's under) affects how long it'll last... I have poly body mount bushings that still look good as when I put them in 20 years ago, where suspension bushings I've had do what I mentioned above after maybe 5-7 years.
rayra
Expedition Leader
Poly's too firm and jerky and they squeak like hell after their initial lubricity is gone. I've tried slathering them in silicone spray lube, but it never solves it completely.
But my Rancho poly bushings were put in over 20yrs ago. I've no idea if newer designs have solved the issue. And I should have replaced them or had them pressed out and lubed long ago. But the last time I got near to working on some coil springs I crushed me hand, so I haven't been in much of a hurry to do anything curative about it.
But my Rancho poly bushings were put in over 20yrs ago. I've no idea if newer designs have solved the issue. And I should have replaced them or had them pressed out and lubed long ago. But the last time I got near to working on some coil springs I crushed me hand, so I haven't been in much of a hurry to do anything curative about it.
Stroverlander
Adventurer
None of the polyurethane bushings I have from Energy Suspension or Prothane squeak - subframe/body bushings, sway bar bushings & end links, motor mounts, trans mount, bump stops, shackle bushings, control arm bushings, etc. I do use Super Lube w/Syncolon silicone grease applied liberally to most of those parts as it's very thick and doesn't wash out. I also stick with black polyurethane parts as most Energy Suspension black bushings are graphite impregnated for self lubrication while the red parts are not.
With some OE parts no longer being available and/or cheap aftermarket garbage (rubber motor mounts), the best option for longevity/durability has been polyurethane.
On my van, with even just a bit more travel up front due to relocated upper ball joints, OE style rubber control arm bushings don't like the extra bit of articulation and end up splitting/tearing so polyurethane works better from that perspective.
Also, once the control arm bushings are replaced with polyurethane, it's probably easier to replace the poly bushings than OE style shelled rubber bushings, at least these control arms.
Are they for everyone? Definitely not, but I prefer the more solid feel they provide and considerably tightened up what was a creaking and loose feeling van.
With some OE parts no longer being available and/or cheap aftermarket garbage (rubber motor mounts), the best option for longevity/durability has been polyurethane.
On my van, with even just a bit more travel up front due to relocated upper ball joints, OE style rubber control arm bushings don't like the extra bit of articulation and end up splitting/tearing so polyurethane works better from that perspective.
Also, once the control arm bushings are replaced with polyurethane, it's probably easier to replace the poly bushings than OE style shelled rubber bushings, at least these control arms.
Are they for everyone? Definitely not, but I prefer the more solid feel they provide and considerably tightened up what was a creaking and loose feeling van.
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I was/am debating changing out to the energy suspension master kit for my JK. Max flex is not an issue for me as we run nasty trails but no need to disconnect. I think the more positive feel would be better for our type of driving, plus on road driving would be way more responsive.
comptiger5000
Adventurer
Poly vs rubber vs flex joints / spherical bearings really depends on the application. Basically, you need to look at what directions the bushings need to allow movement for the suspension to function properly with as little binding as possible. The best bushing for an application (NVH issues aside) is the one that allows the most freedom of movement in those directions and allows the least movement in every other direction. Poly is often better than rubber at this, excluding cases like control arms on a 4-linked solid axle, where rubber bushings are better than poly and flex joints will do far better than either (the bushings bind and restrict suspension flex).