Pop up Camper LiFePO4 system
- Thread starter Mlachica
- Start date
shade
Well-known member
One would hope.
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
I love my Victron gear and have it in 2 builds. The only thing I will say is the Color Control GX is not needed honestly most of the time. I installed it in my van and have taken it out since everything is bluetooth and I can monitor and control each item from my phone.
You might want some Victron battery protect in the system to prevent too much draw going out.
Mlachica
TheRAMadaINN on Instagram
Great points. Thanks. Can you control the inverter/charger from the app? If i remember right, there are parameters that are controllable via the GX.
Regarding the victron battery protect. Doesn’t the battleborn batteries BMS do this already? Or is there another reason I’m not seeing?
A BMS is a last resort lvc, to prevent permanent damage.
In normal cycling for decent longevity you should never get near that point.
So adjustable lvc's outside in "user land", even different setpoints by how "essential" a circuit is, can help ensure blasting the stereo doesn't leave you without nav/comms capabilities.
In normal cycling for decent longevity you should never get near that point.
So adjustable lvc's outside in "user land", even different setpoints by how "essential" a circuit is, can help ensure blasting the stereo doesn't leave you without nav/comms capabilities.
wfv56
Active member
I have a flat bed hawk. One challenge will be to find a spot for the inverter/charger. What is you plan to locate that piece of gear?
1leglance
2007 Expedition Trophy Champion, Overland Certifie
I don't have an inverter but everything Victron makes seems to have better info and controls through the app.
There is a Victron community forum that I have gotten great info from and posted questions on.
community.victronenergy.com
There is a Victron community forum that I have gotten great info from and posted questions on.
All Posts - VictronEnergy
community.victronenergy.com
Lovetheworld
Active member
Yes, the bluetooth enabled ones are very easy to connect and check or modify settings.
I don't really see a reason for a seperate BMS.
On the inverter you will need to set the cut-off voltage, or they will do it for you.
You could also use the SmartSolar units that have a Load output. Then you can disconnect your other 12V stuff at a certain cut-off voltage. To protect the battery.
If all your power usage is within the amps that the battery can supply then you don't need anything for that.
I don't really see a reason for a seperate BMS.
On the inverter you will need to set the cut-off voltage, or they will do it for you.
You could also use the SmartSolar units that have a Load output. Then you can disconnect your other 12V stuff at a certain cut-off voltage. To protect the battery.
If all your power usage is within the amps that the battery can supply then you don't need anything for that.
shade
Well-known member
An excerpt from an article I found helpful:
Do Not Confuse Protection and Control
A protection system with automated disconnection is just that: a last line of defence that should never be activated. Using the disconnection device(s) to terminate charging (a suggestion often formulated by DIY implementers) is out of the question. It breaches the system design boundaries, where the battery protection layer’s role is to mitigate any failure in the charge control system. More specifically, one role of the BMS is defending against a failure in maximum charging voltage regulation.
A pair of Victron BatteryProtects and their VE.Bus BMS don't cost much compared to the price of a 100Ah LFP battery or two.
Do Not Confuse Protection and Control
A protection system with automated disconnection is just that: a last line of defence that should never be activated. Using the disconnection device(s) to terminate charging (a suggestion often formulated by DIY implementers) is out of the question. It breaches the system design boundaries, where the battery protection layer’s role is to mitigate any failure in the charge control system. More specifically, one role of the BMS is defending against a failure in maximum charging voltage regulation.
A pair of Victron BatteryProtects and their VE.Bus BMS don't cost much compared to the price of a 100Ah LFP battery or two.
I am looking for the right way to disconnect my inverter when the battery voltage is too low. The Victron BatteryProtect says you can't connect an inverter to it in the manual so that is a no go. I am thinking about using a Blue Sea disconnect, I would prefer a latching relay to remove the coil load but all of the ones I have found require both an on and an off control signal which I don't have from the BMS control.
many inverters have a remote switch included
otherwise just get a good contactor to cut off inverter input
contact current handling well above your max - DC spec!
signal matching whatever the BMS uses
Or get an independent all in one LVC, adjustable sensor and relay included together, no need to use the BMS for this.
Your fridge should be set lower than the screens / entertainment, and Essentials circuit lower still
otherwise just get a good contactor to cut off inverter input
contact current handling well above your max - DC spec!
signal matching whatever the BMS uses
Or get an independent all in one LVC, adjustable sensor and relay included together, no need to use the BMS for this.
Your fridge should be set lower than the screens / entertainment, and Essentials circuit lower still
Lovetheworld
Active member
Such a thing would be very useful when the alternator would be connected directly to this battery. But it isn't.
So you have the solar power and the DC-DC charger. In both you configure a charging voltage/profile that will not exceed the battery specification.
Voltage cut-offs make sure the battery voltage cannot be drained to low, out of specification.
Next to that, I am expecting that these kind of batteries have integrated BMS that already protects the battery for this.
A small search on the battery confirms this: https://battlebornbatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Battle-Born-Manual.pdf
It already has under and overvoltage protection as well as current.
It also includes temperature protection!
So, to add a battery protect on these things would be redundant, it doesn't make sense.
In fact, you could even remove the low-voltage cut-off as well, because this battery will protect itself from getting to low.
**Absolute bollocks!!**
Redundancy is important, BMS fail long before the cells.
Did you read those nordkyn pages? great wisdom there. . .
The LVCs I'm talking about are "user side", to make sure your higher priority circuits have plenty of energy left, by shutting down the non-critical loads much early than just protecting the bank.
The setpoint of a BMS are just to prevent drastic immediately obvious damage.
A **very** different proposition from proper care to get good longevity.
Redundancy is important, BMS fail long before the cells.
Did you read those nordkyn pages? great wisdom there. . .
The LVCs I'm talking about are "user side", to make sure your higher priority circuits have plenty of energy left, by shutting down the non-critical loads much early than just protecting the bank.
The setpoint of a BMS are just to prevent drastic immediately obvious damage.
A **very** different proposition from proper care to get good longevity.
Lovetheworld
Active member
I built an electric seated scooter / moped and configured my own BMS, using repurposed electric vehicle batteries. The BMS is inline on the minus side. So if it breaks, there is no circuit. No more using power from the battery or charging it.
These kind of machines only have their BMS, there is never any redundant functionality. And hundreds of thousands are being built like that.
Just focus on the charging voltage. Because that equals how full you charge them. And that should NOT be 100%. Because storing them at 100% for long time is not that good for them.
Just put the voltage at some State of Charge voltage a bit below, like 90%. You can ask them what is a good voltage, but it still has to be a voltage where the cells balance.
That is more important for a car that sits a lot of times, possibly in the sun. Unless you are going to travel in it for years on end, sitting still 100% charged is doing the most damage.
That is what I did with my scooter, to get the longevity.
Your main inverter should cut-off before the rest does, and you will be able to configure a cut-off voltage in there.
The rest you can just connect. The deeper you discharge it, the deeper the cycle, the more wear it is. You can make it really complicated for yourself, but if these batteries are properly used a small portion of the year, than just use it to the bottom.
Two cycles in which you deplete it to 50% do as much wear as one cycle where you deplete it to 0%. So it is not like it is super dangerous to go near the edge.
So if you needed the energy, it is good that is available to you. In the end it is there to serve you.
Again, the same with my scooter. I try to avoid running it down to something like 10% state of charge, but if I ever get in that position (which has happened), then I am happy that I can use that remaining energy in the battery.
Would I do that on a daily basis throughout the year, yeah, it would wear out quickly. But that is really about general wear on the battery, more than the exact depth of discharge.
If you are going to use this every day of the year, then yes, make it cut off a bit earlier, so the discharge depth is not that high every day.
If you are using this setup only a few weeks in the year, then it is far more important to not have it sit at 100% all the time.
These kind of machines only have their BMS, there is never any redundant functionality. And hundreds of thousands are being built like that.
Just focus on the charging voltage. Because that equals how full you charge them. And that should NOT be 100%. Because storing them at 100% for long time is not that good for them.
Just put the voltage at some State of Charge voltage a bit below, like 90%. You can ask them what is a good voltage, but it still has to be a voltage where the cells balance.
That is more important for a car that sits a lot of times, possibly in the sun. Unless you are going to travel in it for years on end, sitting still 100% charged is doing the most damage.
That is what I did with my scooter, to get the longevity.
Your main inverter should cut-off before the rest does, and you will be able to configure a cut-off voltage in there.
The rest you can just connect. The deeper you discharge it, the deeper the cycle, the more wear it is. You can make it really complicated for yourself, but if these batteries are properly used a small portion of the year, than just use it to the bottom.
Two cycles in which you deplete it to 50% do as much wear as one cycle where you deplete it to 0%. So it is not like it is super dangerous to go near the edge.
So if you needed the energy, it is good that is available to you. In the end it is there to serve you.
Again, the same with my scooter. I try to avoid running it down to something like 10% state of charge, but if I ever get in that position (which has happened), then I am happy that I can use that remaining energy in the battery.
Would I do that on a daily basis throughout the year, yeah, it would wear out quickly. But that is really about general wear on the battery, more than the exact depth of discharge.
If you are going to use this every day of the year, then yes, make it cut off a bit earlier, so the discharge depth is not that high every day.
If you are using this setup only a few weeks in the year, then it is far more important to not have it sit at 100% all the time.
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