Power wagon or 2500 for a light slide in camper

[coguzzi]

I currently own a 02 Tundra access cab with a 13 Four Wheel Camper Hawk in it, fairly loaded camper (hot water, awning etc), so i would guess 1300lbs give or take. Tundra i did add-a-leaf, bilsteen 5100's, and air bags with day star cradles. Tundra handles the camper OK, not awesome, but workable and i have taken it lots of places, even some i should not have been. pretty much just a camper rig, not a daily driver and camper is in 90% of the time.

I've been toying with the idea of upgrading trucks and the Ram Power Wagon is on my short list. I test drove a '12 last week at the Dodge lot and liked it (even though the particular truck was neglected and not on my radar) they are telling me to come back next week and try the new '15 power wagon with the 6.4L coil sprung, claim it gets even better milage and rides nicer.

Reason i like power wagons is that right out of the box from the factory they have what i want, factory winch, sway bar disconnect, lockers, skid plates etc. Rubicon of the truck world (i own a rubicon as well--love the sway bar disconnect). the older i get the more i like stuff that just works from the factory. its only $6K more for a power wagon than a normal Ram 2500 with a Hemi (dont want a diesel) and that savings would be eaten up with winch, bumper, protection etc.

my problem is cargo capacity, the '12 (leaf spring) is rated 1884lbs and the '15 (coil spring) is rated 1440-1880lbs (depending on where you look). compare this to a normal Ram 2500, '12 (leaf spring) rated 2500lbs and '15 (coil spring) rated 2550-3510lbs (think the 6.4L has higher capacity). weird the '15 coil spring truck is more--and can carry alot. knd of leaning towards a new 15, get exactly what i want

Im kind of worried if the power wagon is actually a good fit for a four wheel camper--without tons of mods alah 1/2 ton trucks. i think air bags would be required at a minimum and i think day star cradles are mandatory for any air bag install. or should i just suck it up and get a 2500 for the capacity and plan to add a winch (that would probably require a bumper and more $) and live with out sway bar disconnect and lockers. i live in CO, and found we use the sway bar disconnect all the time in the Rubicon, never had to use the lockers yet, but when you need them.....

looking for thoughts, hopefully from people who have also had this dilemma

 

[Darwin]

Suck it up, might as well get a 3500.

 

[underdrive]

A good winch and its bumper can run you $1500-$2000 easy. Leaves you with $4k for other upgrades. Diffs alone are $1k each if you go on-demand lockers, installation would be around $500 each, so that's $3k for both axles. You're now down to $1k for further upgrades. This won't buy you disconnecting sway bars AND underbelly armor.

You should compare axles between the Power Wagon and the normal 2500. If they are the same then you know the PW can actually handle the weight, and it's just a matter of getting the right springs. Aftermarket rear leaf springs for the 2012 built to your specs + install should be around $1k.

So it's kinda of a wash there really. You can either start off with a regular truck and build it up as needed, or start with a PW and beef its springs up a bit. Would be about the same in the end, with the upgraded normal 2500 likely a bit more expensive than a extra-load PW. But you can build the normal 2500 up with whatever parts you want. On the other hand the PW has the advantage of all-factory stuff and thus full warranty and dealership maintenance anywhere you may happen to have a problem.

All that said, here's the most important thing - how much does your camper actually weigh? If it's close to the PW's load rating what will happen is the truck will still carry it fine, but it will sag in the rear. The obvious solution would be higher-GVW rear springs. They do not legally increase your GVW, or the rear GAWR for that matter, but the same load that makes the factory PW springs squat a lot will only compress the stiffer springs say halfway. Meaning the truck will not have the Cali lean to it no more. And since there are no changes to the legal GVW of the truck, and the new parts are heavier-duty than the old ones, you should have no warranty issues from the dealership (especially if you use factory-issue springs, nevermind you purchased them separately at the parts counter). Well, that is in an ideal world - in real life it pretty much depends on how far the particular dealer is willing to go to make a sale... May wanna even try and see if they'll allow you to bring your Tundra with the camper on to test-fit it the new truck - some dealers will duck for cover at the mere thought, some will say no problem, and some will take the middle ground and allow the new truck to be test-loaded with something that is of equal weight but that is not the camper itself (camper can easily damage truck and that's a big liability for the dealer, whereas forklift-loading a skid of heavy replacement parts is easy and generally a much safer activity).

 

[PowerWagner]

How do you plan to wheel the truck? What type of trails/situations did you, your Toyota, and camper find yourself in? I think maybe answering those questions can help point you to a solution to your current dilemma. The Power Wagon can do one heck of a lot for the size rig when using its stock mods but lots of folks with campers in the beds would just choose not to do so maybe then overkill...

 

[coguzzi]

ha, i think a 3500 would flex even less than a 2500, which puts it at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum

powerwagner, of course i will not take the truck the same places we take the 2 door Rubicon, but living in CO i do find myself on some knarly trails an aweful lot to find a good camp spot, or just to get from point A to B when out exploring. I've had the Tundra with camper install up and over some passes where i was teetering back and forth on 2 wheels to get the third on the ground. stacking rocks always got me through. this is where more flex would have been ideal. Seems like i am doing alot of stream crossings as well. am i full on rock crawling, no, i prefer to take my dirt bike out in those situations. but it is going off road for sure, and it is called Four Wheel Camper for a reason, built to withstand that kind of abuse (within reason of course). i am assuming any solid axle, power wagon or stock 2500 is going to flex more than the IFS tundra, just by design. so honestly either one will be a step up in offroad ability probably.

underdrive, for sure the four wheel camper brand is the lightest pop up camper out there, but im still about 12001300 lbs. by the time i add water and food and the ever important BEER, easily 1500lbs. then i add a small honda CT110 trail bike on the back alot for out of base camp exploring. laughs per cc are through the roof FYI. so i am getting there for payload on the PW. i already know air bags and daystar cradles will probably be necessary on the PW (and daystars should be manditory for any air bag install IMHO). i think the axles are the same as whats in the cummins 2500 trucks. for add ons to the 2500, power wagon style winch is $2300 (behind bumper) or i figure easily $3K for bumper and winch set up, more like $3.5K really. lockers another $3k (probably live with out), sway bar is no go, skid plates another $1K, so yeah--right there price wise so its all a wash. the older i get the more i appreciate totally stock from factory stuff, it works together.

so 2500 for out of the box load capacity and spend $ on mods, or power wagon for out of the box on everything except have to upgrade suspension with air bags at minimum ($400) to stiffer springs (not really out yet for the 14-15).

 

[PowerWagner]

ha, i think a 3500 would flex even less than a 2500, which puts it at the extreme opposite end of the spectrum

powerwagner, of course i will not take the truck the same places we take the 2 door Rubicon, but living in CO i do find myself on some knarly trails an aweful lot to find a good camp spot, or just to get from point A to B when out exploring. I've had the Tundra with camper install up and over some passes where i was teetering back and forth on 2 wheels to get the third on the ground. stacking rocks always got me through. this is where more flex would have been ideal. Seems like i am doing alot of stream crossings as well. am i full on rock crawling, no, i prefer to take my dirt bike out in those situations. but it is going off road for sure, and it is called Four Wheel Camper for a reason, built to withstand that kind of abuse (within reason of course). i am assuming any solid axle, power wagon or stock 2500 is going to flex more than the IFS tundra, just by design. so honestly either one will be a step up in offroad ability probably.

underdrive, for sure the four wheel camper brand is the lightest pop up camper out there, but im still about 12001300 lbs. by the time i add water and food and the ever important BEER, easily 1500lbs. then i add a small honda CT110 trail bike on the back alot for out of base camp exploring. laughs per cc are through the roof FYI. so i am getting there for payload on the PW. i already know air bags and daystar cradles will probably be necessary on the PW (and daystars should be manditory for any air bag install IMHO). i think the axles are the same as whats in the cummins 2500 trucks. for add ons to the 2500, power wagon style winch is $2300 (behind bumper) or i figure easily $3K for bumper and winch set up, more like $3.5K really. lockers another $3k (probably live with out), sway bar is no go, skid plates another $1K, so yeah--right there price wise so its all a wash. the older i get the more i appreciate totally stock from factory stuff, it works together.

so 2500 for out of the box load capacity and spend $ on mods, or power wagon for out of the box on everything except have to upgrade suspension with air bags at minimum ($400) to stiffer springs (not really out yet for the 14-15).

Well I'm obviously biased and based on your comments, I'd go PW. They are exceptional offroaders, great flex, and stock components which may help if warranty issues. On the downside, they suck on MPG's. Good luck.

 

[coguzzi]

i do know they suck on mpgs, so does my tundra when the camper i loaded, seems like i get between 9-13mpg (ive seen 20 unloaded, but 80mph and wind kills it). I have heard from others the PW doesnt really care if its loaded or not, always consistant sucky milage--ha. i bet a standard 2500 hemi will not do THAT much better, 1 or 2 mpg maybe. the local dealer says a current customer with a 15 6.4L PW reported getting 18mpg, i think he is smoking something, and the dealer inflated it on top of that.

any 2500 owners in stock form care to comment on offroad ability?

here is some inspitation ive been drawn to http://www.tontotrails.com/4-wheel-pop-up-truck-camper.html

 

[underdrive]

so 2500 for out of the box load capacity and spend $ on mods, or power wagon for out of the box on everything except have to upgrade suspension with air bags at minimum ($400) to stiffer springs (not really out yet for the 14-15).

Stiffer springs are actually out already, you said yourself the normal 2500 can have a rating of up to 3500 lbs - one of the ways that happens is with stiffer springs, so while the aftermarket may not have a solution for the PW specifically there's a pretty good chance the factory already provided you with it, just not with the "suitable for use in PWs" label attached. Look into it, but don't ask just the salesman, get a mechanic to compare them - a salesman will only tell you what the computer tells them, the guy who actually makes a living working on these things can measure things and tell you if it will fit or not.

 

[DT75FLH]

if you found an older 3/4 ton dodge with the hemi (prior to 2010 iirc) and put on a kore kit (about 1100 shipped) and a day to install it. you would get that same travel as a power wagon. It road awesome at speed, and flexed well.

here was my 05 dodge with diesel eng, right after the install.

the 2nd pic was a 2013 pw we took out on a run.

both trucks are running 35s in the pics.

 

[aearles]

i do know they suck on mpgs, so does my tundra when the camper i loaded, seems like i get between 9-13mpg (ive seen 20 unloaded, but 80mph and wind kills it). I have heard from others the PW doesnt really care if its loaded or not, always consistant sucky milage--ha. i bet a standard 2500 hemi will not do THAT much better, 1 or 2 mpg maybe. the local dealer says a current customer with a 15 6.4L PW reported getting 18mpg, i think he is smoking something, and the dealer inflated it on top of that.

any 2500 owners in stock form care to comment on offroad ability?

here is some inspitation ive been drawn to http://www.tontotrails.com/4-wheel-pop-up-truck-camper.html

For what it's worth, I've been driving my 15' 6.4 PW for about two months now, it has around 3500 miles on it. My overall average is 14.3MPG which includes a daily 60 mile commute (RT) but most of that is usually spent in traffic. It has not seen a real road trip yet, but with MDS on relatively flat road, the instant MPG settles around 24MPG, so I wouldn't be surprised to pull 18MPG avg on a long trip.

 

[coguzzi]

aearles, that is great to hear, and more fuel for my fire actually. have you had a 1300lb load in it by chance to see how it handles?

underdrive, power wagons do have a 2.5" lift from the factory, so on the newer coil spring trucks (14-15) im not sure a normal 2500 spring would work (probably to short) and Carli doesnt have a spring out yet. on the leaf spring trucks (10-13) that would be totally doable, but probably with a 2.5" block. of course custom springs are obtainable here as well form various sources.

DT75FLH, im definately only looking for 10+ trucks, i need the space for the dogs that the newer crew cab offers. i tried an 08 on for size and it didnt work. I also test drove a 12, i liked everything except for the actual neglected example of a truck. thats when the dealer suggested i try a new 15, which i have not driven yet (still waiting for it to get delivered to the lot)

so this should be more the inspiration since its a '10, but this truck is so modded its not really the same truck anymore anyway. http://expeditionportal.com/vehicle-feature-of-the-week-dodge-power-wagon/

i should also note i worked for four wheel camper for a spell, and 85% of our campers went on half tons. we loved it when a 3/4 or 1 ton came in because we just put the camper in and out the door they went. half tons always need some suspension upgrade.

 

[driller]

http://www.carlisuspension.com/dodge-ram/images/comp_rear_coils.jpg

Pulled this off Carli suspension page, they are for the 2500 with 3" lift.

 

[coguzzi]

hmm, it was "product not yet available" just a couple days ago, that does seem like it would be a good solution, and only $400

 

[TwinStick]

We have a 2008 Power Wagon w/G-56 6-speed manual. I tow a 10,500 lb trailer with a tongue weight of around 1500 lbs. The only thing i did was install a set of the Hellwig Load Pro 35's. $380 to my door. Problem solved. That made ALL the difference. Carli also offers a set of leaf springs (3rd gen & 4th gen) made to haul 1500 lbs extra at all times with a 1" lift over a stock PW. I do not use the capabilities of my PW every day but when i do---they are worth their weight in gold. It is a true shame that the G-56 is no longer avail in a PW. My crawl ratio is lower than even a Rubicon w/manual & RocTrac t-case & 4.10's. Mine is 78:1 . ( Jeep is 73:1 ) If they made a 6-speed auto w/G-56 gear ratio's, they would sell a whole lot more trucks & would have a lot bigger following. Yeah, my mileage SUCKS. Our truck does everything we need it to do & then some. LOVE IT !!!

 

[aearles]

aearles, that is great to hear, and more fuel for my fire actually. have you had a 1300lb load in it by chance to see how it handles?

No, I have not. It is currently loaded to the bed rails with the remains of some trees that I cut down, the wood is wet and heavy, but I have no idea how much it weighs, if I had to guess; maybe 750-1000lbs? It's squatting just a little bit, but I haven't driven it yet. I'll be driving it loaded this weekend, and I'm picking up a travel trailer on Monday that has a hitch weight of 885lbs. I'll let you know how it does, but that's about the best I can offer at this point.