Probably newbish DRW vs. Super Single questions

[andy_b]

Oh of course they do! But for something like hauling a truck camper, I'm a lot more concerned with cost and function than "does it look cool." I'm also not someone who finds "having a bad** looking truck" appealing (just not my vibe).


I agree! I'm here asking questions, right?



For sure, and thanks for all of the additional info!

I don't see this is a linear process. Understanding the tradeoffs of 350/3500 trucks vs. 550/5500 trucks, DRW vs. super singles, and so on all help inform the design decisions.

As an example, I'd LIKE to be able to do some beach camping.

There are a few ways we could get there...

1. Lighter camper running on an SRW 350/3500.
2. Bigger truck converted to super singles that can be aired down.
3. Maybe a smaller DRW with tires that can be aired down a little?

That's not the ONLY criteria, of course. There's no perfect setup, it's all about compromises.

My point is that it's easy to say "figure out what you want to do, then pick the truck," but understanding what those tradeoffs are is part of the process (for me, anyways). Which is, again, why I'm here asking questions.

I get your point about truck appearance - I am not a "truck guy" myself, either. But 41" MPTs do look cool lol. Cost is a real concern for most of us and as a consequence, it would seem like the most direct path would be to start with DRW and if you're unable to get to the places you want as a result, consider super singles (and the other associated costs) then.

I agree that it isn't a linear "if this, then that" approach. As an observer of your path, it just seems like you're in the analysis-paralysis portion of your journey. At some point, decisions have to be made and compromises have to be accepted. Good luck.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

For roads good enough to take a truck/cabover camper on, the dually has worked out very well.

I've had a hunch that "you need singles to offroad" has been a bit overstated. Thank you for sharing your real world experience!

Any off-camber situations (camper on truck is nearly 13' high) were terrifying; powerful wind gusts from the side induced a high pucker factor also.

Yikes! I experience that now towing my trailer. The stability is a big part of the appeal of DRW. I wonder if super singles account for that with beefed up suspension?

A hundred miles of the vibration caused by a washboardy dirt road will cause serious damage to most campers...literally shake it apart unless you drive very, very slowly.

Do you think that's also true of the more "overland-oriented" rigs build with composite boxes (Total Composites, etc.), or just those built with traditional RV construction?

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

As an observer of your path, it just seems like you're in the analysis-paralysis portion of your journey.

ha, yea, that's fair!

I wish it were that and not "I don't have the money to build it right now so I'm going to over-research things until I do" 😂😂😂

 

[andy_b]

ha, yea, that's fair!

I wish it were that and not "I don't have the money to build it right now so I'm going to over-research things until I do" 😂😂😂

Researching my hobbies is my actual hobby.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Researching my hobbies is my actual hobby.

I feel seen!

 

[TonyCatmandu]

Can you remind us what your end goal is? Full time and go to South America, eventual plans to ship globally, or build a cool rig that has some off road capability to run around the US and Canada?

I spend way too much time on this forum and have obsessed over global capable vehicles for years. The irony is that some of the people that have actually had great adventures did so with less than impressive rigs but they had the time to go do things. Allochris is the one that comes to mind as I used to be glued to his posts while sitting at my desk. Life's constant battle between time and money, and compromises.

If you have all the time and less money, you can always keep something stock and drive slow. Applies to SRW or DRW.

 

[deserteagle56]

The stability is a big part of the appeal of DRW. I wonder if super singles account for that with beefed up suspension?

I doubt it. Biggest attraction for super singles is the ability to air them down for dirt road traveling. But if you are aired down and get in an off-camber situation that only makes it worse as the tires on the downhill side squish down. Dually's wider stance (and can take only minimal airing down) is what makes it more stable.

Do you think that's also true of the more "overland-oriented" rigs build with composite boxes (Total Composites, etc.), or just those built with traditional RV construction?

No experience with composites so I really don't know...I would think that they would stand up better to vibration than the traditional construction.

 

[simple]

My dude, thank you!

here's a lot of push on this forum to "just get the bigger truck" because of the wider track and better turn radius, so I appreciate you commenting on the comparable ride quality.

I'd gone down the 3500 SRW (stock, not super single) analysis path, and I think I'm going to be just too close to the max payload to make it work comfortably

What kind of driving were you able to do in the 3500 DRW? Did you feel like there were places you couldn't take it?

Regarding your question about dual rear wheel. It was mostly highway use but felt fine on maintained gravel road / forest service road. More than that and it was creeping along so as not to destroy the camper (aka washboard and potholes). A couple times in snow was fine but that doesn't mean much because snow varies a lot.

 

[Ozarker]

I've done a lot of reading on DRW vs. super singles, and most of what I come across is strongly held (often contradictory) opinions. I imagine a lot of the discussion here will also be opinion, but I'm trying to understand the pros/cons of both options.

I'm hoping to answer the question: is DRW really a problem?

There's also a second layer regarding F-350/3500 pickup DRWs vs. F-550/5500 chassis cab DRWs, as they run on different tires.

To summarize what I've read:

• DRW...
  • Provides better stability with a camper.
  • Adds some protection in the event a tire blows out, as you have another one to fallback on while you get to the shoulder and pull over.
  • Lots of commercial drivers take them on logging roads, service roads, etc. and the fear of getting a rock stuck is potential overblown.
  • They might not be as good in the snow, but good tires can compensate.
  • They suck in sand, because you can't really air them down.
• Super Singles...
  • Might handle better in the snow (though some folks say they're worse).
  • Are better in sand, because you can air them down more.
  • No risk of rocks stuck between them (but might not matter).
  • Less side-to-side stability with a camper on the bed, and if you get a blowout, that's the only tire so the rim might get wrecked.
  • Heavier and more expensive.
  • Maybe worse on highway/city roads because they're often military tires.

Some questions:

1. Are DRW F-350/3500 trucks "different" from DRW F-550/5500's because they're not on steel reinforced 19.5 pizza cutters?
2. Can you get smaller, non-military super singles? For example, Earth Cruiser's run Toyo 37's, but start their life as a DRW Isuzu NPR.
3. Are their super single conversions that aren't $20k?
4. Can you drive DRW trucks on the beach?
5. Are DRW vehicles harder to fit in a parking spot?

Apologies if this is treading tired, boring ground already covered elsewhere. I'm struggling to find clear answers, probably because so much of this is subjective.

You're right, seems like opinions, I couldn't get past number 1, better stability, lol, like what camper, where, under what conditions, etc.

I will spare you any heartache addressing that, I'll just shake my head and leave you to these ideas.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Can you remind us what your end goal is? Full time and go to South America, eventual plans to ship globally, or build a cool rig that has some off road capability to run around the US and Canada?

I spend way too much time on this forum and have obsessed over global capable vehicles for years. The irony is that some of the people that have actually had great adventures did so with less than impressive rigs but they had the time to go do things. Allochris is the one that comes to mind as I used to be glued to his posts while sitting at my desk. Life's constant battle between time and money, and compromises.

If you have all the time and less money, you can always keep something stock and drive slow. Applies to SRW or DRW.

I'm not particularly concerned with global shipping at this time, nor with doing any heavy off-roading.

I DO want something we can drive to the mountains for snowboarding, to the beach for beach-bumming, and service roads for something a bit more off-the-beaten path.

Main goal over our current travel trailer is maneuverability, though. We "travel" more than "camp," and off-highway travel is always annoying.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

You're right, seems like opinions, I couldn't get past number 1, better stability, lol, like what camper, where, under what conditions, etc.

I will spare you any heartache addressing that, I'll just shake my head and leave you to these ideas.

You're insistence on responding to my posts without actually understanding what I've asked is astounding. We'd likely both be happier if we left each other alone, yea? Maybe next time you see a post from me just sit that one out?

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Regarding your question about dual rear wheel. It was mostly highway use but felt fine on maintained gravel road / forest service road. More than that and it was creeping along so as not to destroy the camper (aka washboard and potholes). A couple times in snow was fine but that doesn't mean much because snow varies a lot.

Thanks, friend! Snow is a big question mark, too.

I've seen everything from "duallies are terrible in snow" to "truckers drive in it all the time without any problems". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Ozarker]

You're insistence on responding to my posts without actually understanding what I've asked is astounding. We'd likely both be happier if we left each other alone, yea? Maybe next time you see a post from me just sit that one out?

I'm sorry you feel that way, perhaps you missed my point.

I'm becoming the reluctant one here, never know if you actually follow what I'm saying or not.

Anyway, I'll sit this one out, I'm still waiting on you coming to a conclusion on other posts, like what vehicle is best, what materials to use for the cabin, heat and cooling, water containers, the list is almost endless.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

19.5" tires can't be aired down due to their bead profile. Car and light truck tires use the interface between the wheel and bead plus the pressure within to hold the tires on. 19.5s and similar medium duty truck tires use air pressure to hold the tire one which limits how low you can lower the PSI to improve ride.

Absolutely not true.
I have been running 305R7019.5 Michelin XDE2 tyres on our rig for 20 years.
Michelin publish extensive data for airing down these tyres.
This chart is based directly on that data, as are the pics.
We would run on the yellow all the way across the Simpson, for example and for difficult places we would go down even further for short sections.


For climbing "Big Red" we would be down well under 20psi.



Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[andy_b]

Absolutely not true.
I have been running 305R7019.5 Michelin XDE2 tyres on our rig for 20 years.
Michelin publish extensive data for airing down these tyres.
This chart is based directly on that data, as are the pics.
We would run on the yellow all the way across the Simpson, for example and for difficult places we would go down even further for short sections.
View attachment 818360View attachment 818361

For climbing "Big Red" we would be down well under 20psi.



Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

I stand corrected. I know you posted this exact same info previously but I have a tendency to forget things that don't support my own opinions lol.