Problem Areas/What to look for on 2007 FG (US Market)

[armstrom]

I'm considering buying a locally listed FG140 to convert to an overlanding rig. I have lots of mechanical DIY experience with normal passenger cars but these light commercial trucks are all new to me. Does anyone know of any good websites/youtube videos showing what issues to look out for on these vehicles when doing a pre-sale inspection? I know I could drop some cash and have a mobile diesel mechanic come out to take a look at it (checked with the seller, they have no issue if I want to bring a mechanic) but being a commercial vehicle a qualified mechanic will be a significant cost vs paying a local auto mechanic to look at a basic vehicle. I know the obvious stuff to look for (frame and cab rust, obvious engine knock, etc...) but what are some of the smaller/harder to spot "gotchas" that could end up costing me a fortune? At least it's a 5spd (are all FGs of this vintage manual?) so auto transmission issues are not a concern.

Thanks!
-Matt

 

[SkiFreak]

The 4M50 engine has proven itself to be reliable, but having said that, there is no real way to know how any engine has been treated by previous owners.
You can obviously ask questions, but that does not really guarantee anything.

Here in Australia these tucks were often used in the rural fire service, so as much as most that came up for sale had relatively low kiliometres on the clock, that did not give an accurate picture of the engine use, as when in service they would do a lot of idling. That was standard operating procedure for a fire truck when at a fire.

A lot can be achieved by simply looking at the overall condition of the engine bay and chassis areas, as well as how the inside of the cab looks. If there are a lot of scratches and marks in the cab it may indicate it was simply seen as a work truck and not a lot of care was given to its appearance.
Check for any signs of leaks around the fluid pipe works and the condition of all of the hoses. Many of these trucks were used for snow clearing in the US, so if this was the case, the front end of the chassis should be inspected very closely for any potential damage or cracks. Speaking of cracks... the step area of the chassis is prone to cracking, so that area needs to be closely examined. A cracked chassis is not something you want to deal with.

Synchos in the gearbox are another thing to check. Changing back through the gears, especially from 4th to 3rd, will quickly tell you if you have any issues in that area. Be mindful, there is no synchro in 1st.
There is a potential issue in the transfer case, in that the design lends itself to lubrication issues, so check that there are no funny noises when driving.
Check that the front hubs lock and unlock easily and that the 4wd system works as it should. The LSD in the rear is very tight and needs specific oil to function correctly. When in 4wd, go at full lock in each direction to ensure that there are not stupid noises coming from anywhere. One note: don't do that on bitumen.

Having a mechanic with you may help, but unlike a petrol engine, you cannot simply remove a plug to check the engine compression on these diesels.
As with buying any used vehicle, it often comes down to common sense and your gut feeling of how you perceive your inspection.
Just remember, the truck is nearly 20 years old, so it will obviously have some issues, you just don't want any of them to be major ones.

 

[armstrom]

Thank you for the detailed response. Photos of the interior show typical work truck appearance (dirty, some torn seat covers due to age/use, etc...). From the photos there doesn't seem to be any apparent/significant rust and I can't see a plow mount (though it could have been removed, of course). Luckily, this truck only has 67k miles (~107k km) so I'm hopeful that the engine is still in good shape. I'll know for sure when I go see it in person and can drive it.
I'm trying to decide between buying this truck locally and spending the $$ to build a habitat for the back or buying a JDM import Rosa based 4x4 RV. It's across the country, older (1993), costs more (~$10k more), has the NA diesel, would be RHD in the US, might be tougher to insure/get parts for, etc...... but it already has a dried-in "habitat" ready for retrofit without me having to build/buy an expensive subframe and box... ugh, decisions...
-Matt

 

[SkiFreak]

it already has a dried-in "habitat" ready for retrofit without me having to build/buy an expensive subframe and box...

There's a lot to be said for that.
A retro fit would likely be easier and quicker than building a camper from the start. Don't ask me how I know... sigh!

 

[armstrom]

Yeah, I looked through your site. Lots of work! I know I wouldn't have the time/patience to go through all that work from scratch so I will likely end up buying most of my habitat parts pre-made. There are a couple of companies that sell pre-fabricated zero-torsion subframes and "flat packed" fiberglass foam composite box systems. Granted, all that gets expensive.

 

[SkiFreak]

I hear a lot of chatter about how hard and complicated it is to design and manufacture a kinematic subframe system.
There are numerous variants, some of the main ones being: 3 point, 4 point and spring mounts. All work, but some are more suited to a specific type of vehicle.
I would argue that the spring mount system is the best suited for the stepped frame of a 4x4 Fuso. Building one of these is fairly straight forward and there are many variants out there that you can use as examples.
If you have metal fabrication skills, a DIY version is pretty simple to make and would not cost you a lot of money.
Flat, pre-made composite panels are more accessible these days and are used by many DIY builders to create a camper box. I think the companies providing these in the US are not as common as here in Australia, where you can supply your CAD drawings and basically get a CNC cut custom flat pack set of panels for a very reasonable price.
What will take you the time is doing the fit-out. The fit-out cost could be relatively cheap, or stupidly expensive, depending on what you want out of the vehicle.

I should add that the JDM 4x4 Rosa bus was not really designed for off-roading. It is more focused on dealing with slippery, snow covered roads in Japan.
Just thought that I would mention that, should you be motivated to go down that path.

 

[armstrom]

Yeah, it seems many companies start out offering DIY flat pack kits then pull back at some point and either only work with commercial builders or sell completed camper shells themselves. I don't want to speculate on the reasons why that tends to be the trend here. As for the fit-out being the big time-suck (and often money pit) I agree. Luckily, I would be content to have a warm and dry place to sleep as a starting point. A dried in box with a chinese diesel heater and some camping cots would serve me just fine as a starter. I can then build up whatever comforts/enhancements I feel I need. My current rig is a Toyota 4runner with a wooden platform in the back and a 100AH 12V battery to run a small compressor fridge. I throw camping chairs, a baisc propane stove and a folding table in the back and head out. Obviously, any kind of box with more storage and room to sleep more comfortably will be a major improvement. I understand the appeal of these "instagram rigs" with fine wood cabinets, mood lighting and a special cabinet to store your champagne glasses without breaking them on the trail... but that's just not what I'm after. I am able to build lithium battery packs from bare cells, know my way around electrical wiring and basic carpentry. I also have a nice supply of 80/20 extrusion that I can build several good size cabinets out of as well as access to IKEA for cheap bed frames and countertops. Perhaps I'm being naive, but if I feel confident that if I keep my expectations in check and only build what I need to be comfortable, I can get the job done for a reasonable (ish) cost spread out over time. Perhaps I'm still too far to the left on the Dunning-Kruger graph.

I've also been thinking that same thing about the Rosa. I have visions of cracking the bus body or popping out windows on even moderate trails. I have no intention of trying to take my rig on hardcore offroad trails since it will probably be too large anyway. But I would like to be able to take it on slightly less improved mountain passes or forest roads. Still lots to think about.

 

[armstrom]

Well, I test-drove a US market 2007 Fuso FG today. General the truck seemed... ok? Most of the cab was rust free but there was one odd spot where it had rusted through in the wheel well. But man, that ride... I had heard people talk about the harsh ride of the FG but I guess I had to experience it myself. I may have to rethink my strategy Unfortunately, the frame of the truck was heavily undercoated so I couldn't tell if it had surface rust or any really bad areas. How much do people normally spend trying to tame the suspension on these things??

 

[SkiFreak]

I had heard people talk about the harsh ride of the FG but I guess I had to experience it myself.

Yes, it is something that has to be experienced in order to truly understand how bad it really is.
Without a load on the back the ride is quite horrendous, and even with a load, it's not all that good.

Larger, softer walled tyres and a change (or modification) of springs are pretty much mandatory. A good set of shocks can also make a significant difference, as do suspension seats.
As with any modifications, you can go down the minimalist route, or you can go all in. In regards to suspension on these trucks, I would suggest that this is not really something to scrimp on, especially if you intend on keeping any fillings you may have in your teeth.

 

[glennm01]

Yeah, if the truck you test drove was unloaded in the rear, then forget about judging the ride quality. I found that the front parabolic springs/Sachs HD shock kit that fusooffroad.com sells, along with TImbren bump stops made the ride on my '04 FG much better. And with 37s on 17" super singles, airing down 50% or so when off road makes another huge improvement. Bear in mind, whatever you do, it's still going to be a big and heavy truck, and will never drive like a Lexus. I kind of dig that about it though -- that it feels like a big truck, and forces me to be fully engaged and deliberate when driving. Or maybe this is denial....

Anyway, as you likely already know, the cool thing about the cabover design is that much more of the total length of the vehicle is available to devote to the living space, which shaves several feet off the total length while maintaining a decent turning radius. Both of these are well worth it in exchange for having to feel a bit more of the road. It also may help that my previous rig was a rickety old VW Vanagon, so my standards for ride comfort were pretty low to begin with.

 

[armstrom]

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I came away less than enthused. They're asking ~$14k USD for the truck. I already expect to have to spend quite a bit on the subframe and habitat... I'm not sure I want to sign up for another ~$15k for suspension and wheel/tire upgrades. hmm... tough decisions. Do either of you have any experience with the smaller cabovers from Nissan or Toyota? It looks like most of the DYNA/Toyotace/Hiace/whatevers that I see here have independent front suspension so I'm wondering if perhaps they are a bit more compliant.I think it's also easier to find tires for those as they use the same lug pattern as smaller vehicles like the Tacoma/4Runner.

 

[Ferjablito]

Well, the standard Fuso is unusable, from my point of view, renovations are essential.

 

[glennm01]

$14k for an '07 FG is a freaking steal, assuming it's in decent shape. Even after another $15k of upgrades, you'd still be ahead of the game.

 

[armstrom]

I'm not trusting my assessment of the condition. It clearly looks like an 18yo vehicle... but it has less than 70k miles. Frame rust is difficult to assess since it's covered in thick undercoating (can't really tell if it was applied early so the frame is perfect underneath, or was it applied recently to an already rusted frame?) The cab itself is dirty and worn due to being a work truck. There's only one spot I was able to find that's rusted through and it's way up by the tilt hinge on the driver's side. It looks like there may have been a factory hole for a wiring harness clip or something. Often in pictures I'll see rust around the bottoms of the door frames but this one is clean in those areas. The little heat shield on top of the engine is rusted out, but I imagine that's common due to the heat and the fact that salt can just build up there. The wheels have clearly been painted and have rust on them... but I expect to replace those anyway.
It looks like it was used as a landscaping/tree service truck since it has a dump bed with thrown-together plywoood "extensions" presumably to let them carry more brush/wood chips.

 

[glennm01]

At that price, it's probably worth finding a mobile diesel mechanic who will give you an assessment you CAN trust. Tell the seller your concerns about frame rust -- maybe they'd be willing to let you remove a small area of undercoating to expose whatever is going on underneath. I'd recommend checking the area right behind the cab. If nothing else, you can simply ask when the undercoating was applied, and then run their reply through your BS meter. Is this is in snow country where the roads get salted? If so, you'll definitely want to get to the bottom of this before buying. If the frame is good though, everything else can be dealt with, especially considering the asking price.