Project Victory_Overland 08 LR3 Build Thread!
- Thread starter Victory_Overland
- Start date
ar4me
Adventurer
Makes you wonder why Land Rover upped the brakes on the LR4 (at least the NA V8), compared to the LR3... Personally, as a matter of safety, I would not decrease brakes from standard on a vehicle, particular given all the extra weight that is added on these overland rigs. My guess is that in common, run of the mill driving, you may not experience a difference, but on a long descent you are far more likely to overheat your brakes and have brake fade if the rotors are notably "smaller". Safety of towing could be compromised as well, depending on trailer brake setup etc.
Victory_Overland
Explorer
Not my BMW wheels but I have the 17" LR OEM Disco wheels on mine and they fit great and almost zero noticeability on brake performance at any weight. The increase in tire performance is quite noticeable in every fashion so I doubt I will ever go back to 18" wheels.
JWestPro has also done this mod and he has the EBC performance brake set up on his Disco3. I have the standard V6 set up from AB and he has the EBC kit. He runs pretty heavy as well and from what I remember does not see any noticeable decrease in braking.
On a side note, my guess is that LR chose to run like components on their vehicles for cost and performance. Considering few off-road their vehicles and the direction they have continued to go on LR design, bigger bling meant more sales!
The only thing I could possibly do better than having my 17" wheels is having 16" but no chance that can happen on the Disco3. I'm looking at the BMW option now for the ability of a second set of wheels for my KO2 setup.
Thanks, @Ray_G for the link to the Aussie experience! I'll let you know how they work out!
Ray_G
Explorer
True, of course the thing that comes to my mind is it makes you wonder why people hang so much weight all over their trucks (compromising the safety of the vehicle, particularly offroad) but don't look first at the single most important facet-what joins the vehicle to the earth (tires).
Looking at where LR is going from a design perspective raises more questions than answers: larger diameter wheels for better on-road performance directly contributes to offroad issues with sidewalls.
Overall I think either the V6 EBC or standard V6 setup will be as safe for a discerning driver looking to eek out performance via MTs for their application. For the average user? Probably not worth it, but they wouldn't get their without significant effort either.
r-
Ray
Victory_Overland
Explorer
I see your point, however, I still feel no performance decrease as my driving style is always tailored to my configuration! On the same note, I prefer trans braking over the pedal braking method (or a combination of both). I've lived in hilly and/or mountainous terrain for the majority of my life and brakes surely are of concern, especially with a heavy pig like Victory. My take is to tailor my driving to the situation at all times......at least as much as I can control! Additionally, I do not believe for a second that LR went with bigger brakes on the LR3 for anything other than highway performance.
Agreed @Ray_G ! I would say the 17" wheel conversion is not for everyone, however, I do believe the vast majority of people on here that I am learning from really can benefit from the change. I wouldn't recommend the parts and labor for someone who is not going to spend a significant amount of time with dirt under their tires. My goal is to convert solely to travel vehicle and keep away from daily driving uses.
Victory_Overland
Explorer
I've been having quite the whining party under the hood over the last few weeks and I believe to have narrowed it down to the A/C compressor clutch bearing. Unfortunately, through my research, I believe that the Denso model the LR3/4 uses that it is not possible to just replace the clutch as it is internal and variable and not on the outside in the pulley like "normal" compressors! My plan was to attempt to replace it on the vehicle without having to unplug A/C lines and recharge the system but it appears I am out of luck.
I have the truck broken down now and found a crack in the coolant housing as well; good thing I have a brand new one on the shelf to replace it with!
Since everything else in the coolant system is brand new, I guess it is time this part finally showed its mileage. On the same project, I plan to remove the throttle body, clean it out really good and replace my MAP, PCV, and MAF at the same time since these have been on the vehicle since the original build date.
I picked up a new Denso compressor, and all of the LR original MAP, PCV, and MAF from British Parts of Utah, free shipping and should be here by the weekend.
I have the truck broken down now and found a crack in the coolant housing as well; good thing I have a brand new one on the shelf to replace it with!
Since everything else in the coolant system is brand new, I guess it is time this part finally showed its mileage. On the same project, I plan to remove the throttle body, clean it out really good and replace my MAP, PCV, and MAF at the same time since these have been on the vehicle since the original build date.
I picked up a new Denso compressor, and all of the LR original MAP, PCV, and MAF from British Parts of Utah, free shipping and should be here by the weekend.
Victory_Overland
Explorer
Last week's events finalized the replacement of worn dynamic parts under the hood. I was able to get a great deal and super fast shipping from British Parts of Utah for the Denso A/C compressor (Free Shipping Lower 48). I also replaced my coolant housing since I broke the plastic bleeder port off the thermostat housing. BPofUtah also supplied the new MAP, MAF, and PCV that were long overdue. I am looking to do the O2 sensors end of the month when I get back down to my house in SoCal. The MAP and PCV were completely gunked over and I would hate to know what type of manifold pressures I've been running......UGH.
After installing all of the new parts, I reset the values with my GAP tool, had an initial rough idle and then it leveled out beautifully with a nice smooth idle. Knowing I was heading to San Jose for these next few weeks, I decided that the trip was going to be 95% tarmac so I installed the 18" wheels with the old Nitto ATs for mileage.
I started the trip off in the late morning and coordinated with Abran at CARRS4x4 in Huntington Beach for the new Odyssey PC1350 main battery install. Abran was ready for me and had me in and out of there in a flash and my lady and I were off for a burger at My House Pub before we started the long haul up to San Jose.
------Great place Abran, it was a pleasure to meet you and the wife and I look forward to linking up again in the near future------
Victory doesn't look right with those itty bitty tires but she's running great and I haven't seen 17.5mpg like this in a loooooonnnnnngggggggg time! All of the sensors were long overdue and she is running really well again. I still feel like maybe it might be time for coil packs and a good injector cleaning but right now she's purring like a kitten again and I'm stoked. No more lean bank codes either!!!!!
After installing all of the new parts, I reset the values with my GAP tool, had an initial rough idle and then it leveled out beautifully with a nice smooth idle. Knowing I was heading to San Jose for these next few weeks, I decided that the trip was going to be 95% tarmac so I installed the 18" wheels with the old Nitto ATs for mileage.
I started the trip off in the late morning and coordinated with Abran at CARRS4x4 in Huntington Beach for the new Odyssey PC1350 main battery install. Abran was ready for me and had me in and out of there in a flash and my lady and I were off for a burger at My House Pub before we started the long haul up to San Jose.
------Great place Abran, it was a pleasure to meet you and the wife and I look forward to linking up again in the near future------
Victory doesn't look right with those itty bitty tires but she's running great and I haven't seen 17.5mpg like this in a loooooonnnnnngggggggg time! All of the sensors were long overdue and she is running really well again. I still feel like maybe it might be time for coil packs and a good injector cleaning but right now she's purring like a kitten again and I'm stoked. No more lean bank codes either!!!!!
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Victory_Overland
Explorer
PM sent!
Victory_Overland
Explorer
I picked up a set of five X5 wheels for Victory yesterday. I've been reading over the Aussie threads on this mod and they should bolt right up. I am waiting to confirm the load rating on these as I have heard everything from 800 to 1200, both of which should be okay.
I'd prefer to get another set of LR 17" so I do not need different lug nuts but right now I have to get what I can get. Anyone selling some 17" LR wheels, let me know! hahaha I have one set with KM2 and would like this set for the KO2 AT set-up for the other set; currently that will be with the X5 wheels.
Also, as soon as I am sorted here, I will be offloading my 18" wheels with the remaining rubber left on the Nitto Terra Grapplers. Anyone interested, let me know and I will put you on the short list. I am in San Diego area and can help coordinate pick-up or shipping if needed; might be a week or two before I am ready to take them off but can work out the transfer before hand.
I'd prefer to get another set of LR 17" so I do not need different lug nuts but right now I have to get what I can get. Anyone selling some 17" LR wheels, let me know! hahaha I have one set with KM2 and would like this set for the KO2 AT set-up for the other set; currently that will be with the X5 wheels.
Also, as soon as I am sorted here, I will be offloading my 18" wheels with the remaining rubber left on the Nitto Terra Grapplers. Anyone interested, let me know and I will put you on the short list. I am in San Diego area and can help coordinate pick-up or shipping if needed; might be a week or two before I am ready to take them off but can work out the transfer before hand.
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Victory_Overland
Explorer
Thanks @morrisdl correct I’ve been on 17” LR Wheels and KM2s for a while now and love it. I’ll keep you posted on the BMW wheel progress.
Casual viewers can scroll around the build thread for details and my opinions on the switch to V6 brakes.
Cheers!
Casual viewers can scroll around the build thread for details and my opinions on the switch to V6 brakes.
Cheers!
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Victory_Overland
Explorer
Okay, here is what I have found out so far. Please, anyone who has requisite knowledge on any of these numbers please pipe in. None of us need any rumor-ville because believe me, the Aussie community has that part covered on the X5 wheel set up. Anywho, these are the numbers I have found to be confirmed by LR and BMW peeps and if anyone has documentation on any of these numbers to confirm or debunk, please post it here.
Load Rating for the Disco 3 17" and 18" wheels are 940kg and the E53 X5 wheels are said to be 900kg to 1030kg (Apparently depends on who made them). The E53 X5 wheel is the only one that meets the load rating or similar to the Disco 3/4; all other BMW are for cars or are too wide like for the performance X version SUVs with the super fatties on the back. So the 900kg would be slightly less than the max loading of 940kg of the factory LR wheels; a decision that only YOU can make if the drop in loading rating meets your safety margin. The thing that sucks is the BMW wheels are not stamped on the inside so the only way to confirm is to know it is a genuine BMW wheel that came from the factory as apparently there are Chinese knock-offs for replacement wheels. I confirmed from the seller of my wheels, that they happily replaced their factory off the showroom floor wheels with 20'' blings so I think I am safe. Honestly, if you buy a set, you are probably safe. For reference, the information I found is that the 20" RRS wheels are only rated at 858kg (I say only, but that is a pretty heavy per corner) regardless I think the Disco 3/4 is fatter anyway. Just a comparison.
There is one guy who's been running these X5 wheels now for 40,000km with zero issues and a few others with less mileage. I am guessing they are much higher in mileage by now since many of these posts started in 2012 and 2013. What I have confirmed is that nobody has openly disclosed any issue with the wheel fitment or failures of any kind; not saying it hasn't happened, saying I have not found any failure documentation. What I have found is everyone is having tire fitment issues because like us here, everyone seems to want to stuff as much rubber under their wheel-wells as possible and this is leading to the same issues we see here.
For me, this tire size will not be an issue. 245/70r17 and and 265/70r17 are very popular sizes with zero issue and exactly where I want to be. I am running a near perfect size on KM2's for my uses on my LR 17" and the X5 wheels will be no different with KO2 (have not researched exact size yet). Bottom line, stay at or under a 32" tire or you will have to cut and carve and do all the modifications we are familiar with for large tire diameters. Keep in mind, these are 7" wide wheels, the same as the 17" LR wheel and that means a 265 is about the maximum width from the sizes I've seen.
The lugs nuts are confirmed below for the folks who have been running the X5 wheels. 14mm x 1.5 and 60 degree conical lug, torqued to the same spec as LR (LR and BMW same for these wheels). It appears this Gorilla lug (link below) is very popular so I am going to research the specs, and then see if I can find one that will accept my current socket size, and is NOT chrome. Many people have complained that the below linked lugs rust, but the fit is what is required and apparently there was not much on this size to choose from. Again, I will continue to research this and most likely order a set for one wheel to take some torque, alignment, and thread specs. The lug change is specifically needed due to the thickness and offset of the X5 wheel. According to the safety nuts in the Aussie government, they are inspected for changing to V6 brakes on annual safety inspections and the lugs have to meet a specific thread lockup count (probably similar to many stateside gov inspections we see in some states for modifications). Personally, I don't disagree that the lug nuts should grip as many threads as possible so it is about turns on the lug, how many threads are mated to the lug. Another option is to put longer studs in the hubs, an option I am not willing to explore just yet since it does not seem to be the only option since lugs are available.
Sorry for the long winded response, just trying to paraphrase the information I have found thus far. So far, I am happy with what I have found. Time to start shopping for lug nuts!
Gorilla Nuts
Oh, and the BMW center caps.......I guess the LR cap won't fit in there I think I can manage to plastic-dip those and be happy! hahahaa, you wouldn't believe the drama about the center caps! phew. All and all, I joke, but it's a really good thread on these wheels.
Load Rating for the Disco 3 17" and 18" wheels are 940kg and the E53 X5 wheels are said to be 900kg to 1030kg (Apparently depends on who made them). The E53 X5 wheel is the only one that meets the load rating or similar to the Disco 3/4; all other BMW are for cars or are too wide like for the performance X version SUVs with the super fatties on the back. So the 900kg would be slightly less than the max loading of 940kg of the factory LR wheels; a decision that only YOU can make if the drop in loading rating meets your safety margin. The thing that sucks is the BMW wheels are not stamped on the inside so the only way to confirm is to know it is a genuine BMW wheel that came from the factory as apparently there are Chinese knock-offs for replacement wheels. I confirmed from the seller of my wheels, that they happily replaced their factory off the showroom floor wheels with 20'' blings so I think I am safe. Honestly, if you buy a set, you are probably safe. For reference, the information I found is that the 20" RRS wheels are only rated at 858kg (I say only, but that is a pretty heavy per corner) regardless I think the Disco 3/4 is fatter anyway. Just a comparison.
There is one guy who's been running these X5 wheels now for 40,000km with zero issues and a few others with less mileage. I am guessing they are much higher in mileage by now since many of these posts started in 2012 and 2013. What I have confirmed is that nobody has openly disclosed any issue with the wheel fitment or failures of any kind; not saying it hasn't happened, saying I have not found any failure documentation. What I have found is everyone is having tire fitment issues because like us here, everyone seems to want to stuff as much rubber under their wheel-wells as possible and this is leading to the same issues we see here.
For me, this tire size will not be an issue. 245/70r17 and and 265/70r17 are very popular sizes with zero issue and exactly where I want to be. I am running a near perfect size on KM2's for my uses on my LR 17" and the X5 wheels will be no different with KO2 (have not researched exact size yet). Bottom line, stay at or under a 32" tire or you will have to cut and carve and do all the modifications we are familiar with for large tire diameters. Keep in mind, these are 7" wide wheels, the same as the 17" LR wheel and that means a 265 is about the maximum width from the sizes I've seen.
The lugs nuts are confirmed below for the folks who have been running the X5 wheels. 14mm x 1.5 and 60 degree conical lug, torqued to the same spec as LR (LR and BMW same for these wheels). It appears this Gorilla lug (link below) is very popular so I am going to research the specs, and then see if I can find one that will accept my current socket size, and is NOT chrome. Many people have complained that the below linked lugs rust, but the fit is what is required and apparently there was not much on this size to choose from. Again, I will continue to research this and most likely order a set for one wheel to take some torque, alignment, and thread specs. The lug change is specifically needed due to the thickness and offset of the X5 wheel. According to the safety nuts in the Aussie government, they are inspected for changing to V6 brakes on annual safety inspections and the lugs have to meet a specific thread lockup count (probably similar to many stateside gov inspections we see in some states for modifications). Personally, I don't disagree that the lug nuts should grip as many threads as possible so it is about turns on the lug, how many threads are mated to the lug. Another option is to put longer studs in the hubs, an option I am not willing to explore just yet since it does not seem to be the only option since lugs are available.
Sorry for the long winded response, just trying to paraphrase the information I have found thus far. So far, I am happy with what I have found. Time to start shopping for lug nuts!
Gorilla Nuts
Oh, and the BMW center caps.......I guess the LR cap won't fit in there I think I can manage to plastic-dip those and be happy! hahahaa, you wouldn't believe the drama about the center caps! phew. All and all, I joke, but it's a really good thread on these wheels.
