PSA regarding vehicle service

[calicamper]

This seems to be the most general wrench-turning subforum here, so I figured I'd call out some recent experiences.

I typically do all of my own vehicle maintenance, other than brake flushes and major warranty work. It's a rule I've had for 10+ years now. The exceptions have been tire work and a really talented guy who specializes in alignments. This was due to a long string of bad experiences, especially with quick-lube places (which I will never, ever, ever, ever use for service again for any reason):

- Friend had a Sears put his oil drain plug back on with an impact. Required destructive removal and re-threading the pan
- Oil change shop grenaded one of my old truck's auto transmissions putting it into park while moving
- Oil change shop put wife's engine air filter back in backwards
- Small shop failed to reassemble cowling under the windshield correctly, resulting in 2" of water in the vehicle interior
- Brake shop lost my wheel lock
- Dealership grossly overfilled SUV auto trans, resulting in a boil-over on the highway, destroying seals and forcing AT fluid into the transfer case (which destroyed the transfer lever bushing later on)
- Oil change shop tasked to drain/fill and remedy that also grossly overfilled same SUV auto trans, with same results.

So no more chain shops. However, recently I've been in the dealerships quite a bit, being crushed with work and blessed with Jeep reliability. In the last year alone:

- First time I've ever had someone else do an oil change on my truck, the dealership opened the airbox (after I explicitly told them not to) to inspect the filter and then failed to close it back up
- Dealership replacing JKU torque converter under warranty failed to reconnect the transfer lever linkage. We learned this after sinking in the sand on the beach with the lever in the 4hi position, with only the rear wheels spinning.
- Same dealership replacing the radiator under warranty left the PCV hoses unconnected at one end, causing all manner of BS. Just figured that out this morning.

Auto service was always a bit dodgy, but this is getting ridiculous. If someone turns a wrench on your vehicle, inspect it yourself and don't wait too long to do it. I even made a note for myself to check my truck's airbox to make sure they didn't screw it up, and didn't do it right away because it was pouring down rain. Lesson learned.

Your experience is shared my friend. Its nothing new.
However the way Dealers 3rd party Companies are moving to big corporate Auto Group owned store fronts covering large regions. These issues are getting worse. Primarily because not only can they manipulate regional vehicle pricing and perceived model scarcity they control Tech pay.

Your a tech at a dealer, build up your brand specific specialty certifications but realize your not being paid fair rate. You either need to move out of the region, switch brands or eat crow and continue working for the Auto Group at artificially lowered pay rates.

Eventually this tech moves on. Today in many major Auto buying regions this monopoly effect has resulted in constant revolving door of Techs at the dealers shorter and shorter cycles.

Its very rare now to find a tech at a dealer thats been there and has seen all the weird stuff and can diagnose the goofy odd ball stuff 5min into the vist which completely stumps the newbs for weeks and maybe never gets corrected.

No fix on the horizon for this trend. Unless a State AG grows a pair and goes after the Auto Groups for the blatant Monopolistic practices going on now for years... That and Auto Companies hitting the point they can’t eat major failed warranty replacements any more caused by simple Tech mistakes. Gear oil in CVT transmissions aka Subaru, over filled fluids, and as you pointed out nearly every stupid oops one could think of.

 

[calicamper]

I think the most interesting idea would be for Auto makers to allow established shops to get certified in their brand resulting in more Warranty certified repair shops, increasing the competition from quality skilled repair shops forcing “Dealers” to get with the program or get out of the business.

 

[luthj]

A person I know runs a medium sized specialist auto repair facility in a major metro area. Skilled techs which can turn vehicles at a good rate, and don't do crap work are not easy to come by. Last I heard he was offering 34$ an hour starting rate, with bumps for productivity for techs with relevant certifications/experience (5 years minimum). Paid factory training and vacation were standard. Work weeks were between 35-60 hours depending on the season, with overtime pay. Being a good Spanish speaker he has started recruiting educated auto techs from Mexico and sponsoring them for visas. With 4-5 years of tech school and apprenticeships, they were good hires at 34$/hour. On the other hand many applicants who were qualified on paper due to experience would fail their initial practical "exams", lacking understanding of basic principles/safety, or being unable (or unwilling) to following directions or detailed work instructions.


Wages in many blue collar work fields (though with the tech in cars its not really blue collar in the true sense), have been flat since the 80s. Combined with higher costs of education and housing, the actual compensation has dropped. That likely plays a role in the poor quality of work in the lower tiers of the industry. Treat someone like crap and they do crap work.

 

[luthj]

Your odd then, as most in the field, even with 10+ years are technicians. Even in aerospace they are called AMT (Aircraft Maintenance Technicians). With large variances in skills and certifications within the group.

 

[NatersXJ6]

I think a key is to stop paying book time and start paying actual time. Artificially incentivizing corner cutting and poor work hurts the consumer. The increased reliability of newer cars and people’s propensity for run to failure also undermines the development of a relationship between shop and customer. I’ve been fortunate to own a power stroke, so I never had to deal with increased reliability ?, but I am my own technician, proudly!

 

[jadmt]

I would never trust a shop to work on something I own if they refer to their workers with the derogotory title “Tech” or “Technician”.
Sadly too many otherwise compentent guys go along with it not understanding how lowclass and insulting it is.
Then again, for some guys deserve it and its not low enough.

I have a good buddy who is a mechanic in a busy dealership and makes well over $100K a year with lots of time off. He has a college degree in Business from Ohio State and if you ask him what he does for a living he will tell you he is a tech. He drives a Jeep and Ferrari 458 lol go figure

 

[javajoe79]

As a busy Dealership Mechanic good for him.
But obviously pandering to folks of low common denominator.

What should they be called and why exactly do you feel this way about the word technician?

 

[AbleGuy]

What should they be called ? and why exactly do you feel this way about the word technician?

The name I’d call them? Technically, it depends on the quality of work they’ve done on my rig ?

 

[NatersXJ6]

What should they be called and why exactly do you feel this way about the word technician?

I too am curious about this. I’ve seen several times in different threads that you believe “technician” is a negative term. At my work currently, our average manufacturing worker is called an “operator”. I’m trying to make a transition to “technician” through more knowledge, training, and empowerment and trying to sell the title to them as a positive thing.

BTW: extra argument points if you work for me... that would be hilarious.

 

[luthj]

It must be hard for you to be called the shared title of human. Ha! Over in the UK some blue collar workers are called engineers. You don't see the the ASME card carriers up in arms about it.

 

[Dirt Rider]

The hardest thing I do today is buy quality, be it house repairs or car repairs, I do as much as I can myself, I cannot tell you how many times I have had to redo a repair, because it was not done right. You take something back to the shop to get redone and all you get is attitude, like how dare you complain about it not being done right. I was an aircraft mechanic for years and can do most hings myself, but when time is tight I have to rely on others, and it is almost always done wrong. If I find a good shop, its like hitting the lottery! But those guys a few and far between. I cannot tell you how many times I went to the more expensive shop because it had a good reputation only to be disappointed.

 

[Buddha.]

When I worked at jiffy lube as a teenager in 2001-2002ish I made 9/hr with no benefits. After graduating high school I went to auto tech school(2 yrs) while working nights in a factory for 13/hr. Near the end of that program I tested #1 in my class, they wanted to send me to some kind of mechanic student competition thing but I said no because I had to work, point being I'm not incompetent. After graduating that program the only shop that would hire me payed me the same 9/hr no benefits that I made in high school . It was a (dysfunctional)family business I quit after a couple months and I went back to factory work, which is much easier and payed much better.
I don't know what my point is, something about good shops being hard to find for techs too?

 

[leeleatherwood]

The hardest thing I do today is buy quality, be it house repairs or car repairs, I do as much as I can myself, I cannot tell you how many times I have had to redo a repair, because it was not done right. You take something back to the shop to get redone and all you get is attitude, like how dare you complain about it not being done right. I was an aircraft mechanic for years and can do most hings myself, but when time is tight I have to rely on others, and it is almost always done wrong. If I find a good shop, its like hitting the lottery! But those guys a few and far between. I cannot tell you how many times I went to the more expensive shop because it had a good reputation only to be disappointed.

Its not even just "a good shop" you have to worry about.

Its a "good mechanic".

Shops employ mechanics of all skill levels, enthusiasm, knowledge, drug habits, work ethic, etc. You might find a mechanic who is the most excellent mechanic in the world when hes broke, but as soon as payday comes around all he cares about is getting off work so he can buy some crackrocks, if that means getting vehicles out the door with shady workmanship, so be it.

 

[jlcanterbury]

Will agree that if you can do it yourself, it's the way to go. Find a good service manual, a few good youtube videos, and most tasks are easily completed at home with basic tools. Added bonus of a gained sense of satisfaction and an expanded skillset after completion.

With that being said, I recently got screwed by a local AAMCO. +1 to those who have noted to stay away from the national chains. My 01 Tacoma started making some unpleasant noises from the gear box. I don't have the time to learn how to rebuild an auto transmission, so I took it to a shop. Was quoted $2300 (reasonable price for an auto transmission rebuild), so I authorized them to pull the transmission ($890 deposit- first red flag).

Next day I get a call saying it's going to total $3700. I went into the shop and talked to the manager and owner- neither could provide a reason as to why my rebuild was going to cost $1400 more than quoted. Labor alone was $2100 - and this was their "standard # of hours for this tranny"- at this point it was clear to me that with labor and parts it was NEVER going to be close to their quote. They acted like it was no big deal for a job to cost 50% more than a quote. They started blabbering about the cost of business going up each year... sure... but did it go up 50% in 24 hours? I don't think so ****************.

Classic bait and switch. They already had $890 out of my pocket so I was stuck with them unless I wanted to walk away with $890 already lost and with no repair. Makes me sick to my stomach that I got caught up in that scam. After talking to some friends and family who live local, turns out this shop has a bad reputation... Still losing sleep over this one.

 

[javajoe79]

As far as what they should be called ? I have no perfect answer aside from their traditional professional titles.
Its demeaning to those of professional ethics, more knowledge, training, and empowerment to bear the same title as the thread stripping, tyrevalve cap stealing 'tards at Kwikie Lube.

So really you just think the kwikie lube guys don’t deserve the title. Also you shouldn’t say tard or any other version of that word in that fashion. It is considered inappropriate.