Question about running Rg-58 antenna cabling and heavy gage power lines under vehicle
- Thread starter rayra
- Start date
rayra
Expedition Leader
Thanks. I probably should have put this build stuff in the general mods forum, but it is ultimately for radios so I thought it fit better here. Even though there's very little about actual radios in it.
I took the door slats and used a large metal square to get things aligned and snugged up on a piece of cardboard, slats face down, then used low tack tape to mask the slat ends and a sliver of the top and bottom slats and to pin things to the board. Then I cut a thin sheet of styrene, a little thinner than your typical 'for sale' sign, which would cover the remaining exposed wood. Typically a rolltop door is backed with fabric. I wanted a bit of spring tension from the styrene to help the door bind a bit at the curve in the track, so the door stays where you leave it, instead of just falling down. Then I just hit both slats and styrene with some 3M Super77 spray adhesive, gave it 45-60secs and carefully stuck them together. Then I put a papertowel over everything, a flat board and a heavy toolbag to squash it all down for an hour. Probably should have left it overnight but was eager to see it in place.
Here's how looks, all closed up. Nothing to see here.
The door moves fairly easily but stays where you leave it.
I shaped a piece of cove molding to use as a handle on the door. It will be affixed with a pair of small wood screws thru the back of the 2nd slat down from the top, as well as the styrene backer. Still have several stainings to go for that.
Next up I'll put it in place in my Suburban for the final look. Laughing at myself now for doing all this console work and I don't even have most of the radio gear yet.
I took the door slats and used a large metal square to get things aligned and snugged up on a piece of cardboard, slats face down, then used low tack tape to mask the slat ends and a sliver of the top and bottom slats and to pin things to the board. Then I cut a thin sheet of styrene, a little thinner than your typical 'for sale' sign, which would cover the remaining exposed wood. Typically a rolltop door is backed with fabric. I wanted a bit of spring tension from the styrene to help the door bind a bit at the curve in the track, so the door stays where you leave it, instead of just falling down. Then I just hit both slats and styrene with some 3M Super77 spray adhesive, gave it 45-60secs and carefully stuck them together. Then I put a papertowel over everything, a flat board and a heavy toolbag to squash it all down for an hour. Probably should have left it overnight but was eager to see it in place.
Here's how looks, all closed up. Nothing to see here.
The door moves fairly easily but stays where you leave it.
I shaped a piece of cove molding to use as a handle on the door. It will be affixed with a pair of small wood screws thru the back of the 2nd slat down from the top, as well as the styrene backer. Still have several stainings to go for that.
Next up I'll put it in place in my Suburban for the final look. Laughing at myself now for doing all this console work and I don't even have most of the radio gear yet.
rayra
Expedition Leader
Got the console in place. To get the chassis in I have to empty out the main center console and remove its 4 mounting bolts and slide that console rearward several inches. Turns out I don't need to worry about chassis mounting brackets or even side panel attachment. I got the size just right with the chassis, sides, foam and upholstery it's basically a wedge fit. Both the chassis front to rear and top to bottom as well as the side panels' rear corner tucking into the remaining gap in the dash and fitting snugly at the front wraparounds / bezel area. Probably still add velcro to the side panels to help keep them in place when going down washboarded roads. Which is most of them, where I intend to travel.
here's a couple 'driver's eye' views
Here you can see how well it fits in the dash hole left from removal of the factory console.
And an overall side shot that shows how it blends in with the interior in both shape and color. A little neater on the upholstery work and it would pass as 'factory'
Total console cost was <$100. Other than the $9 computer fan the rest was built from scratch.
Now I just need to dredge up the ~$350 for the radios, antennas, cabling etc.
here's a couple 'driver's eye' views
Here you can see how well it fits in the dash hole left from removal of the factory console.
And an overall side shot that shows how it blends in with the interior in both shape and color. A little neater on the upholstery work and it would pass as 'factory'
Total console cost was <$100. Other than the $9 computer fan the rest was built from scratch.
Now I just need to dredge up the ~$350 for the radios, antennas, cabling etc.
BettysNephew
New member
Looks great! Fine job.
rayra
Expedition Leader
Thanks very much. I'm pretty happy with how it came out. There's a little bit of room to rearrange the guts of it, if I run into trouble fitting the radios later.
Did some bumper investigation for the antenna mountings. I want to put the antennas in the outer corners of the rear bumper, in front of the taillights, clear of the hatch. I want the top of the mount flush with the bumper's top surface and intend to put a plastic cap of some sort either in the threaded hole of the mount, or a larger cap in the new hole in the top of the bumper over the whole thing.
The bumper design looks like it will work for my desired install. There's a metal bumper skin wrapping the bumper subframe. And the plastic skin wrapped on the metal bumper skin and attached via some integral clips that go thru holes in the metal bumper skin. One of these thru holes is right where I'd like to put the antenna mount.
I'm intending to use basic stud mounts, affixed to stair-step / dog-leg brackets bolted to the bumper subframe
They'll be positioned so the top of the stud mount sits flush with the metal surface skin of the bumper. I'll enlarge the hole in that metal skin to provide clearance around the stud mount. And will likely size that hole to match a plastic cap that will press / snap into the hole, covering the mount when not in use.
There's about a 2-1/2" offset from the thru hole to the bumper mount bolt, and 7" vertically between upper and lower bumper mount bolts so plenty of room to fit things.
I'll cut a circle out of the plastic bumper skin slightly larger than the cap, for cosmetics and leaving enough room to get a thumbnail or whatever under the cap to lift it out.
I'll keep the antenna with attached spring mounts in my storage platform drawers until needed. Along with a matching wrench to let me snug it down when mounting the antenna.
I'm figuring to use antenna cabling with PL259 connectors on both ends, I figure I can do a better job of waterproofing the connection at the mount, using either heat shrink or some other goop, rather than using a ring-terminated cable with its right-angle connection. Since most of my driving will be in desert and drought-type conditions, an occasional stream crossing or mud pit, this should suffice.
I'm probably going to bring the cables into the vehicle at the back hatch in the bottom corners. Have to look at that some more. I can readily make some mods to get the cable in under / behind the big weather seal, but need to look at the plastic threshhold of the cargo area to see if it would be better to come in under there, at a shallow angle. Then I can route the antenna cables up each side of the cargo area behind the plastic trim. Have to do some measuring, most pre-made cables seem to be 18', I'm likely to need almost all of it in the Suburban.
eta - a cap something like this, set into the top of the bumper, generally matching the plastic top tread of the bumper. Pretty much go unnoticed. Carve a bit of an undercut in the bottom edge so it's easier to lift out, but put it in so that faces the hatch, again not very noticeable.
Did some bumper investigation for the antenna mountings. I want to put the antennas in the outer corners of the rear bumper, in front of the taillights, clear of the hatch. I want the top of the mount flush with the bumper's top surface and intend to put a plastic cap of some sort either in the threaded hole of the mount, or a larger cap in the new hole in the top of the bumper over the whole thing.
The bumper design looks like it will work for my desired install. There's a metal bumper skin wrapping the bumper subframe. And the plastic skin wrapped on the metal bumper skin and attached via some integral clips that go thru holes in the metal bumper skin. One of these thru holes is right where I'd like to put the antenna mount.
I'm intending to use basic stud mounts, affixed to stair-step / dog-leg brackets bolted to the bumper subframe
They'll be positioned so the top of the stud mount sits flush with the metal surface skin of the bumper. I'll enlarge the hole in that metal skin to provide clearance around the stud mount. And will likely size that hole to match a plastic cap that will press / snap into the hole, covering the mount when not in use.
There's about a 2-1/2" offset from the thru hole to the bumper mount bolt, and 7" vertically between upper and lower bumper mount bolts so plenty of room to fit things.
I'll cut a circle out of the plastic bumper skin slightly larger than the cap, for cosmetics and leaving enough room to get a thumbnail or whatever under the cap to lift it out.
I'll keep the antenna with attached spring mounts in my storage platform drawers until needed. Along with a matching wrench to let me snug it down when mounting the antenna.
I'm figuring to use antenna cabling with PL259 connectors on both ends, I figure I can do a better job of waterproofing the connection at the mount, using either heat shrink or some other goop, rather than using a ring-terminated cable with its right-angle connection. Since most of my driving will be in desert and drought-type conditions, an occasional stream crossing or mud pit, this should suffice.
I'm probably going to bring the cables into the vehicle at the back hatch in the bottom corners. Have to look at that some more. I can readily make some mods to get the cable in under / behind the big weather seal, but need to look at the plastic threshhold of the cargo area to see if it would be better to come in under there, at a shallow angle. Then I can route the antenna cables up each side of the cargo area behind the plastic trim. Have to do some measuring, most pre-made cables seem to be 18', I'm likely to need almost all of it in the Suburban.
eta - a cap something like this, set into the top of the bumper, generally matching the plastic top tread of the bumper. Pretty much go unnoticed. Carve a bit of an undercut in the bottom edge so it's easier to lift out, but put it in so that faces the hatch, again not very noticeable.
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I know I'm beating a dead horse, but if instead of the bumper, you put 2 NMO's on the middle of the roof, with black screw on caps when not in use, it would be just as invisible when unmounted, and the antennas would work 20x better.
You mentioned before that you do or used to do IT cabling. Me too. So you've probably seen an old voice/telco guy put in an cat5 cable, by pulling out and straightening 6" of twisted pair, then punch down the ends, all nice and neat, just like voice. To a radio person, mounting 2 antennas on the back bumper of a Suburban - a truck built for antennas on top - looks like 6" of untwisted line with a cat5e RG-45 on it. It might work, but it's just not the best way at all. Just doesn't fit with the awesome console. The antennas the most important part. Ok, soapbox down...love the build on the console.
You mentioned before that you do or used to do IT cabling. Me too. So you've probably seen an old voice/telco guy put in an cat5 cable, by pulling out and straightening 6" of twisted pair, then punch down the ends, all nice and neat, just like voice. To a radio person, mounting 2 antennas on the back bumper of a Suburban - a truck built for antennas on top - looks like 6" of untwisted line with a cat5e RG-45 on it. It might work, but it's just not the best way at all. Just doesn't fit with the awesome console. The antennas the most important part. Ok, soapbox down...love the build on the console.
rayra
Expedition Leader
I understand and I appreciate the advice and the complement. I'm deliberately choosing the sub-optimum location. As ready as I am to drill some holes, I'm just not willing to puncture the roof. Not yet anyway. I am considering a third antenna lead run to the back left corner of the roof rack (out the hatch seal near the taillight and run up outside the seal, under the hatch), that can be switched to either radio in necessity. Even that isn't optimum, I understand. Or even keeping the lead free so a mag mount can be used to set an antenna on the roof (or higher) temporarily.
(shrug) who knows, I finally get my HAM license and start exercising it and that may very well all change. Can always move antennae later.
eta - I have also been looking for some info on re-purposing the OnStar nub antenna location on the roof. I could see replacing that with an NMO and a 1/4 wave ham antenna. I already have a tram mag mount 1/4-wave with a PL259 lead and an adapter cable to connect it to the SMA on my Baofeng UV-5R.
I also have a dual band 'Slim Jim' from N9TAX.com, which works quite well and is part of the portable kit I've assembled. Lots of power adapters of various types, antennae, cordage, radio accessories etc.
http://www.n9tax.com/Slim Jim Info.html
If my vehicle craps out in the backside of beyond in some southwest desert, I'll have several options for extending / improving my comm range. The bumper mount location is to suit my envisioned short range usage.
eta 2 that reminds me, I need to find an antenna adapter that's SMA male on one end and PL259 on the other
(shrug) who knows, I finally get my HAM license and start exercising it and that may very well all change. Can always move antennae later.
eta - I have also been looking for some info on re-purposing the OnStar nub antenna location on the roof. I could see replacing that with an NMO and a 1/4 wave ham antenna. I already have a tram mag mount 1/4-wave with a PL259 lead and an adapter cable to connect it to the SMA on my Baofeng UV-5R.
I also have a dual band 'Slim Jim' from N9TAX.com, which works quite well and is part of the portable kit I've assembled. Lots of power adapters of various types, antennae, cordage, radio accessories etc.
http://www.n9tax.com/Slim Jim Info.html
If my vehicle craps out in the backside of beyond in some southwest desert, I'll have several options for extending / improving my comm range. The bumper mount location is to suit my envisioned short range usage.
eta 2 that reminds me, I need to find an antenna adapter that's SMA male on one end and PL259 on the other
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rayra
Expedition Leader
speaking of roof mounts, I took a look today and found a couple things I hadn't noticed. I know there was what looked like a mounting location on the roof rack, but hadn't really investigated it when I got the vehicle. And never paid attention to the missus' Tahoe rack. It's an adjustable-location mount and the thru-hole is already 1/2" ID, already set for antenna mount studs. The rack on my Z71 has two, one at each rear corner. And just today I noticed that there is a similar mount spot on each end of both factory cross bars on the Z71 rack. 6 total locations. So I'll probably run a 3rd antenna lead to the back driver's corner location. If I get somewhere that I need more reach, I can mount the antennae up there and swap the cable at the radio(s). Or just get that mag base I was talking about.
I'm looking at Firestick's top-loaded / no ground plane CB antenna, bumper location with a good conductive mount to the bumper bracket / frame. Bumper or rack should be about the same.
Their 2m 5/8 wave offering says 'ground plane' but just specifies good connection to chassis ground. I'll tune it at the bumper location and check it at the roof. If I use the same model antenna cable etc it shouldn't be too different, we'll see / I'll report back.
I'm looking at Firestick's top-loaded / no ground plane CB antenna, bumper location with a good conductive mount to the bumper bracket / frame. Bumper or rack should be about the same.
Their 2m 5/8 wave offering says 'ground plane' but just specifies good connection to chassis ground. I'll tune it at the bumper location and check it at the roof. If I use the same model antenna cable etc it shouldn't be too different, we'll see / I'll report back.
rayra
Expedition Leader
well here's some irony, or the fickle finger of [insert your preferred deity here]. I was putting off digging into the interior of my Sub as 'too much work'. SO mid-day today, not 5mins out from the house, our big rescue GSD decides to take a big stinking pee right in the middle of the cargo area. Spent the rest of the afternoon dismantling and cleaning everything.
There's a good little bit of wasted cubic behind the interior trim panels, in the name of symmetry. Had to basically remove the cargo sides and pillar trim panels and unbolt the 2nd row seats in order to pull the carpet panel. Nice thing was that panel basically had a waterproof backer, so all that rag insulation is pristine.
And now I might as well pull the rear headliner as well, as I've been wanting to figure two sets of attachment points for a cargo barrier net, both behind the 2nd row and the 3rd row. Preferably some sort of bracket behind the trim plastic with a nut that I can run an eye-bolt into when I want to hang the net.
And now I can easily route my antenna cabling. Not what I planned to do this coming holiday weekend.
There's a good little bit of wasted cubic behind the interior trim panels, in the name of symmetry. Had to basically remove the cargo sides and pillar trim panels and unbolt the 2nd row seats in order to pull the carpet panel. Nice thing was that panel basically had a waterproof backer, so all that rag insulation is pristine.
And now I might as well pull the rear headliner as well, as I've been wanting to figure two sets of attachment points for a cargo barrier net, both behind the 2nd row and the 3rd row. Preferably some sort of bracket behind the trim plastic with a nut that I can run an eye-bolt into when I want to hang the net.
And now I can easily route my antenna cabling. Not what I planned to do this coming holiday weekend.
Dratwagon
Adventurer
Before you go drilling holes, I have done some research, my plan for my suburban is to mount my ham antenna 28 inches from the windshield since the roof is 56 inches wide so this will be the most optimal ground plane, the cb antenna will be mounted a minimum of 18 inches rearward of the ham antenna , whenever you mount an antenna off center of the ground plane you actually derect your signal strength.
rayra
Expedition Leader
argh that just makes it even worse. Got the big ol' LT/LTZ sunroof in this thing. So the best ground plane loc would be that distance forward of the rear hatch. ********** in the middle of the roof rack.
I'm going to pull down the rear headliner tomorrow just to take a good look at things, some pics and measurements. I'm also wanting to add a ceiling rack for fishing rods and it would work for bigger antennae, too. This general idea, executed in oak -
I'm going to pull down the rear headliner tomorrow just to take a good look at things, some pics and measurements. I'm also wanting to add a ceiling rack for fishing rods and it would work for bigger antennae, too. This general idea, executed in oak -
rayra
Expedition Leader
It won't, not conductive. If I understand the theory correctly, the pattern of radiance of a monopole antenna in the middle of the roof would be reduced in the direction the sunroof lays. Sort of like a dent or pucker in the edge of a circle, if viewed from above. The whole pursuit is to get the antenna radiating evenly. Or as evenly as possible, given that it's the roof of a vehicle, anyway. It's not going to be even no matter where you put it. The idea is just to find the 'least worst' place to put it.
~25yrs ago when I was farting around in Marine artillery battalion operations, one of my many hats (FireDirectionControlman, HQ Btry Ops Platoon NCO, field shift supe, etc) was driving the Bn command humvee and operating its VHF radios in our mobile CP. The best advice the Comm guys could give me then was 'aim your vehicle [rear] on the main axis you want to communicate on', given the stern mount antenna locs and the ridged high desert terrain we were operating in. Doctrine was staying in the wadis, under nets etc, but more often than not I was parked on a ridge somewhere trying to raise one of our units.
So I guess I've been subconsciously emulating that compromise solution, in fact right down to the dual antenna emplacement. hadn't thought of that until right this minute. heh.
But beyond all that, I just don't get the whole conductive ground plane with a vehicle mounted antenna anyway, since the whole vehicle is sitting on four rubber tires. A lot of the edicts and lore about optimum antenna placement are predicated on ground installations anyway and shoved onto vehicle installations. And there's just flat so many people 'getting by' with what are patently 'improper' antenna locations that I'm not too concerned about it being perfectly placed. Mobile comms. To me that's a matter of convenience, if I need more range I'll set up a better bigger antenna.
Well it's started sprinkling here, with rain threatened in the mid afternoon. I got some bitumen rubber peel-and-stick window flashing to experiment with on the bare metal in the back of my Sub and still need to open the ceiling. So I better get to it.
~25yrs ago when I was farting around in Marine artillery battalion operations, one of my many hats (FireDirectionControlman, HQ Btry Ops Platoon NCO, field shift supe, etc) was driving the Bn command humvee and operating its VHF radios in our mobile CP. The best advice the Comm guys could give me then was 'aim your vehicle [rear] on the main axis you want to communicate on', given the stern mount antenna locs and the ridged high desert terrain we were operating in. Doctrine was staying in the wadis, under nets etc, but more often than not I was parked on a ridge somewhere trying to raise one of our units.
So I guess I've been subconsciously emulating that compromise solution, in fact right down to the dual antenna emplacement. hadn't thought of that until right this minute. heh.
But beyond all that, I just don't get the whole conductive ground plane with a vehicle mounted antenna anyway, since the whole vehicle is sitting on four rubber tires. A lot of the edicts and lore about optimum antenna placement are predicated on ground installations anyway and shoved onto vehicle installations. And there's just flat so many people 'getting by' with what are patently 'improper' antenna locations that I'm not too concerned about it being perfectly placed. Mobile comms. To me that's a matter of convenience, if I need more range I'll set up a better bigger antenna.
Well it's started sprinkling here, with rain threatened in the mid afternoon. I got some bitumen rubber peel-and-stick window flashing to experiment with on the bare metal in the back of my Sub and still need to open the ceiling. So I better get to it.