Question: Gen 3.5 Ltd 3.8L vs. 255-85-R16's
- Thread starter Offroadmuch
- Start date
plh
Explorer
Not sure where you are at for ODO mileage, but I'm just shy of 150K on the '05 now. When I swapped to the 285s and the OME medium springs - KYB G-a-Js a couple months ago, being it was already torn apart, I replaced upper and lower ball joints front and rear, tie-rod ends, front wheel bearings, and a couple bushings in the rear, plus a wheel alignment by a shop that knows how to actually do a wheel alignment if you know what I mean.
Offroadmuch
Explorer
"Not sure where you are at for ODO mileage, but I'm just shy of 150K on the '05 now. When I swapped to the 285s and the OME medium springs - KYB G-a-Js a couple months ago, being it was already torn apart, I replaced upper and lower ball joints front and rear, tie-rod ends, front wheel bearings, and a couple bushings in the rear, plus a wheel alignment by a shop that knows how to actually do a wheel alignment if you know what I mean."
I am at about 155,000 so I know things are wearing out the more I drive. Going to have to wait on a suspension refresh for now. I could definitely use a reference for a place nearby who can do a real alignment.
I am at about 155,000 so I know things are wearing out the more I drive. Going to have to wait on a suspension refresh for now. I could definitely use a reference for a place nearby who can do a real alignment.
Offroadmuch
Explorer
"Yeah I personally probably won't try the 285/75s on stock wheels. The Gen3 has room to swallow that tire with the correct wheel/offset with the OME lift, though."
The above makes me wonder the follwoing:
(This is not a criticism of anyones wheels, tire choice, vehicle, lift or anything else, just a quandry I have about how all of this works)
I kind of don't quite understand using wheels with wider offset with a lift. Here is why: so I understand that as we add lift the wheels drop down and inward as the A-arms lower. My confusion is that when we drive over terrain and a particular wheel articulates up with the new wide offset rims it is now closer to hitting the body or fender where before (factory offset wheels) it would have tucked up properly the way it was designed to. So isn't that (wider offset) counter productive for offroading which is the purpose of the lift and larger tires in the first place? And yes I understand that wider offset wheels creates a wider stance and may contribute to better control, stability, balance etc. but only when you don't have tires rubbing when suspension is pressed up by terrain which will slow you down, rob needed power and increase wear on all of the associated suspension for the wheel that is rubbing. It would be interesting to measure how narraow the wheel base becomes with a 2" lift. I don't think it would even be 1" per side based on some crude tape measurements in my garage when I was looking at my montero for this subject. Not really a big deal either way and of course to each his own. Just thought I would throw that out there...
The above makes me wonder the follwoing:
(This is not a criticism of anyones wheels, tire choice, vehicle, lift or anything else, just a quandry I have about how all of this works)
I kind of don't quite understand using wheels with wider offset with a lift. Here is why: so I understand that as we add lift the wheels drop down and inward as the A-arms lower. My confusion is that when we drive over terrain and a particular wheel articulates up with the new wide offset rims it is now closer to hitting the body or fender where before (factory offset wheels) it would have tucked up properly the way it was designed to. So isn't that (wider offset) counter productive for offroading which is the purpose of the lift and larger tires in the first place? And yes I understand that wider offset wheels creates a wider stance and may contribute to better control, stability, balance etc. but only when you don't have tires rubbing when suspension is pressed up by terrain which will slow you down, rob needed power and increase wear on all of the associated suspension for the wheel that is rubbing. It would be interesting to measure how narraow the wheel base becomes with a 2" lift. I don't think it would even be 1" per side based on some crude tape measurements in my garage when I was looking at my montero for this subject. Not really a big deal either way and of course to each his own. Just thought I would throw that out there...
Swank Force One
Adventurer
Might just be a 20th Anniversary thing, but to me, the factory wheels are absurdly high offset. Or it's because of the super skinny tall tires. It looks awful, and i'm also not super confident that the 285 on these factory wheels would clear inboard at full lock, but there's a TON of room to go out towards the fender.
To be fair: We don't really take our Gen3 offroad, nor do we have plans to.
Offroadmuch
Explorer
Swank are you saying your wheels are offset inward? I guess that kind of addresses my rant above at least as far as possible fender rub up top would go if wheels were flexed all the way up with wide offset rims, meaning there is still room to spare even with wide offset wheels...
Swank Force One
Adventurer
Yeah the 20th Anniversary wheels are extremely high offset for their relative width and the huge amount of space in a Gen3 wheelwell. Looks downright goofy with the 235/85, almost like it has the wrong wheels on it. I could easily fit 3-4" spacers with absolutely zero clearance issues of any kind.
Offroadmuch
Explorer
Ok I see what you are saying. Sounds like 255/85R16 and 235/85R16 tend to be mushy and not the on road and possibly the offroad performance I am after. Appreciate all the input. Leaning toward 265/75R16 or maybe 285/75R16 the latter being more of a burden for suspension, gearing and transmission heat while in use. Maybe safer to go with the 265/75 but that feels slightly lower in the testosterone department.
MoabRefugee
Observer
Agree on the neutered thing with 265/75's, but the KO2 look surprisingly aggressive in person imo. Ultimately, I just couldn't accepts the idea of 59# tires, as tire weight has such a dramatic effect on everything, wear, accel,decel.
Plenty of Gen3 folks love them, and I think that having the option on a stock Gen 3 is awesome, but ultimately I chose to freshen up my ball joints with the savings of 265's over 285. I'm in Moab, so I may go 33, likely with 285 over 255, but not until I can do 4.9 gears and a front locker at the same time.
The stance thing is pretty unpleasing aesthetically. I would love to drop the money on H&R spacers. They are way high quality and provide hubcentric fit to the wheels. However, at around $125-160 pair, they don't really represent "highest and best use" of my dollars, but I REALLY like the idea of the widened stance on stock01/02 six spoke wheels.
Plenty of Gen3 folks love them, and I think that having the option on a stock Gen 3 is awesome, but ultimately I chose to freshen up my ball joints with the savings of 265's over 285. I'm in Moab, so I may go 33, likely with 285 over 255, but not until I can do 4.9 gears and a front locker at the same time.
The stance thing is pretty unpleasing aesthetically. I would love to drop the money on H&R spacers. They are way high quality and provide hubcentric fit to the wheels. However, at around $125-160 pair, they don't really represent "highest and best use" of my dollars, but I REALLY like the idea of the widened stance on stock01/02 six spoke wheels.
Offroadmuch
Explorer
Well said. 59 pound tires is something to consider. Multiplies the wear factor on all parts.
Moab do you have any lift?
MoabRefugee
Observer
About to install some IKEA cutting board 7mm spacers front/TJM 66320 20mm FJ80 spacers rear. No lift coils until I have a better idea of fully laden weight.
I have maybe 800 miles on KYB strut mounts, upper spring insulators and GaJ's
For now, this will work, but Lovell's/Bilstein would have been preferred had I not held funds in reserve for a poss engine rebuild.
I have maybe 800 miles on KYB strut mounts, upper spring insulators and GaJ's
For now, this will work, but Lovell's/Bilstein would have been preferred had I not held funds in reserve for a poss engine rebuild.
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Offroadmuch
Explorer
Sounds great. I am going to measure before and after lift install just for info. Would be interesting if you do that also. Good luck and post some pics.
plh
Explorer
Search your area for a frame shop. I use these guys, obviously not in your area, but for reference.
http://www.frameandaxle.com/
Offroadmuch
Explorer
Plh, thank you, great idea!
Doug,
Orange County Offroad in Huntington Beach did a complete front end refresh (idler, pitman, balljoints, tierods, all bushings, etc, etc) on my Gen 1. He uses American Tire Deport for all his alignments.
American Tire Depot
7351 Autopark Dr. Huntington Beach CA 92648
(714) 848-2275
HTH,
Cecil