Question on trailer brakes needed

[Mccaf]

Having a custom trailer built, 10x8 with a 4x4 box or 4x5 box with a liftable RTT rack. Estimated weights:

675-700 lbs dry weight
130-200 lbs RTT weight
75. lbs fuel/water weight
300 lbs of gear
-------
1300 -1400 lbs max and unexpected weight items

California law req brakes at 1500 lbs.

Jeep is a 2012 JKU, 6 speed, Dynatrac big brake kit and 5.13 gears with 35" Toyos.
Extra expense is about $550 for brakes and harness, controller etc.

I plan on trails and some passes in SW Colorado but nothing to extreme.
Please advise if I really need brakes or the safety factors involved. This is a first trailer for me, thanks in advance for your input!



M8-A1 Mule

 

[Semi-Hex]

My current trailer is almost 1300 lbs. loaded and the few times I wished I had brakes were in Colorado and Montana. My 4Runner weighs 4600 lbs. My new trailer will have brakes at almost the same weight. Yes, an added expense but my woman is with me and she is worth it.

 

[alia176]

Having a custom trailer built, 10x8 with a 4x4 box or 4x5 box with a liftable RTT rack. Estimated weights:

675-700 lbs dry weight
130-200 lbs RTT weight
75. lbs fuel/water weight
300 lbs of gear
-------
1300 -1400 lbs max and unexpected weight items

California law req brakes at 1500 lbs.

Jeep is a 2012 JKU, 6 speed, Dynatrac big brake kit and 5.13 gears with 35" Toyos.
Extra expense is about $550 for brakes and harness, controller etc.

I plan on trails and some passes in SW Colorado but nothing to extreme.
Please advise if I really need brakes or the safety factors involved. This is a first trailer for me, thanks in advance for your input!

View attachment 402100

M8-A1 Mule

Trailer brakes are a no brainer to me, regardless of how much weight it'll be hauling. Those sudden stops at the most inopportune time is when they save your bacon, and possibly prevent injury to you and others on the road.

 

[azscotts]

I'll second that. My build is estimated at about 1700#-1800# and I know the Tahoe can handle that just fine, but for a few hundred dollars extra, the peace of mind is worth it. Just my .02

 

[Mccaf]

Thanks for good advice.

 

[rnArmy]

I'm at about 1250lbs fully loaded, and I appreciate the brakes on the trailer. Especially pulling it with a Jeep TJ.

 

[FlightMedicJP]

Have a build in progress and had my torsion axle built with electric self adjusting brakes. I used to tow heavy trailers years ago and appreciate the ease of mind when having to hit the brakes when cut off. Not being pushed by the trailer is key.

 

[vtsoundman]

No one ever complains about having too much braking ability.

Your dynatrac BBK is basically overcoming the rotating mass of your heavier/bigger tires/wheels. I've ridden in a few jeeps with the Dynatrack kit - they stop a bit better than stock with factory pads, but not enough for me to forgo brakes on a trailer > 800#. The jeep is only rated for a 3500# trailer -> @ 1500# you're well on your way to half that rating.

Brakes are also about stopping rotating mass. That is a big tire on that little trailer. Why else did you feel the need to equip the Jeep with a BBK -> the tires aren't really that much heavier in the grand scheme of things, but your rotational inertia increased significantly.

Having a trailer pushing you down steep grades/climbs/trails is no fun - and feeling brakes fade with a jeep full of loved ones is not a good time. I've been over the passes many times in the Sierras, Colorado, parts of Appalachia, and small random roads (usually the worst). The stock brakes on my stock JKU Rubicon often became very hot as they are marginal at best. Worst experience was towing a loaded teardrop (~1200# & no brakes) and a jeep full of family through some local paved (barely) roads from 101 to Route 1 in Norcal...never exceeded 25mph. It was only 50miles, but the grades often exceeded 15%. By the time I hit Route 1, my front rotors were blue/warped and starting to fade big time. Pads were fresh OEM, rotors were factory. I installed the TF big rotor kit as soon as I got home from that trip - major improvement. Now that I am adding more weight like your jeep (winch, bumpers, trekker fuel tank, aux battery, etc) A BBK will be installed in the next month.

2 of my 3 trailers have brakes. The one exception is my little jeep trailer weighs <800# loaded and I always miss the brakes. I will get a new axle (or perhaps the timbren setup) with brakes in the next two weeks.

I tow a lot with my Jeep JKU - having the ability to tap on the trailer brakes to control a swaying trailer is well worth it and something I doing often on rough roads with lots of cross winds.

Overlanding is about stress free travel.

Anything I can do to improve driver comfort and confidence, is worthwhile upgrade. After a couple of long trips with crappy shocks and poor brakes, I've shifted my perspective a bit - I now budget for safety/safety performance items rather than the next gadget. Brakes are definitely one of those. Other examples: new windshield wipers 1x year, new headlight bulbs 1x year, tires at 50% wear, replacing suspension bushings & steering components sooner than most, etc...

 

[Winterpeg]

I agree with the posters above.... brakes are worth it.

One thing I learned offroading with a trailer with brakes... in low traction areas your trailer brakes may simply lock up. Get a controller where you can adjust the amount of braking your trailer will do. I have the controller by my right knee so it's very handy for me to reduce the braking strength of the trailer when I'm in the sand and only going 2mph.

 

[vtsoundman]

I agree with the posters above.... brakes are worth it.

One thing I learned offroading with a trailer with brakes... in low traction areas your trailer brakes may simply lock up. Get a controller where you can adjust the amount of braking your trailer will do. I have the controller by my right knee so it's very handy for me to reduce the braking strength of the trailer when I'm in the sand and only going 2mph.

Great point...forgot to mention that. I have the Prodigy P3 controller and love it. I use boost settings a little differently then they intended. I'll set a lower power setting but increase/max out the boost while on road (to the higher ratings and then lower/turn off boost while off road.) I also have wired the controller to high current relay & switch (with auto reset breaker). It allows me to kill controller in a hurry. I've used that many times while pulling my buddies jeep trailer (with brakes) off-road.

As a side note, since there is a a constant power terminal to the trailer via the connector, I will connect the trailer battery and charge it while driving. This feed is also connected to a high current relay & fuse switchable from inside the Jeep. I run a #10 high temp wire with a 40amp fuse - have never blown a fuse. The #10 wire has enough voltage drop to prevent a slug of current even if the trailer battery is quite low. Highest peak current recorded was 35A for a second or two and it drops below 30A quickly - this was on a 100Ah battery at 50% charge. Come to thing of it, I could easily get away with a 30A fuse... Be sure to use a high grade trailer connector/wiring with sufficient guage if this is your plan. Before people start getting bent out of shape about 40amp fuse on #10 wire, wire ratings for automotive & marine use are much different than the NEC.

 

[Andrew McAllister]

I second vtsoundman's comments. As someone with a breakless Bantam/m416 trailer who keeps the load as light as possible (4-500 lbs) it's still possible to get the tug's breaks to smoke when you hit a steep grade and the trailer starts pushing you. That's a stressful situation you don't need when overlanding.


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[Winterpeg]

I second vtsoundman's comments. As someone with a breakless Bantam/m416 trailer who keeps the load as light as possible (4-500 lbs) it's still possible to get the tug's breaks to smoke when you hit a steep grade and the trailer starts pushing you. That's a stressful situation you don't need when overlanding.


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That happens even if you use your gears appropriately?

 

[Andrew McAllister]

That happens even if you use your gears appropriately?

In my case call it driver error. I was driving forest roads in the Uintas for two days (30mph or less) and when I made it to smooth asphalt and got up to speed 45-55 then around a curve and a sudden steep decent (sheep creek scenic byway). Begin braking and down shifting and then starts the hot breaks smell. Stopped at the first turnout to inspect and let cool down. Finished the descent creeping in lower gears and high rpm. Granted this is a very steep descent but the tugs breaks were designed for the vehicle GVW, by adding the trailer I increased what I could haul but in a hard breaking situation my breaks are being asked to go beyond what they were designed for. Point of the story is if you are building a trailer go ahead and install breaks. Adding breaks to my modest trailer is on my to do list and it would have made better sense to just install them when I replaced the original axel.


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[vtsoundman]

That happens even if you use your gears appropriately?

Yes. The nanny in the Jeep JK computer gives it some add'l gas once it hits 2700-3000RPM or so and what little compression breaking I did have flies right out the window. The 6 speed (manual) give lots more control, but not when the damn computer gets involved. First time it happened, I was spooked and wonder who the hell bumped the gas pedal...I swear the damn computer tries to maintain RPM between shifts too -> it doesn't drop anywhere near as I think it should when letting off the gas between shifts.

 

[Mccaf]

Great info. Thanks for taking the time. Your right, safety is important to me and the others on the road.

No one ever complains about having too much braking ability.

Your dynatrac BBK is basically overcoming the rotating mass of your heavier/bigger tires/wheels. I've ridden in a few jeeps with the Dynatrack kit - they stop a bit better than stock with factory pads, but not enough for me to forgo brakes on a trailer > 800#. The jeep is only rated for a 3500# trailer -> @ 1500# you're well on your way to half that rating.

Brakes are also about stopping rotating mass. That is a big tire on that little trailer. Why else did you feel the need to equip the Jeep with a BBK -> the tires aren't really that much heavier in the grand scheme of things, but your rotational inertia increased significantly.

Having a trailer pushing you down steep grades/climbs/trails is no fun - and feeling brakes fade with a jeep full of loved ones is not a good time. I've been over the passes many times in the Sierras, Colorado, parts of Appalachia, and small random roads (usually the worst). The stock brakes on my stock JKU Rubicon often became very hot as they are marginal at best. Worst experience was towing a loaded teardrop (~1200# & no brakes) and a jeep full of family through some local paved (barely) roads from 101 to Route 1 in Norcal...never exceeded 25mph. It was only 50miles, but the grades often exceeded 15%. By the time I hit Route 1, my front rotors were blue/warped and starting to fade big time. Pads were fresh OEM, rotors were factory. I installed the TF big rotor kit as soon as I got home from that trip - major improvement. Now that I am adding more weight like your jeep (winch, bumpers, trekker fuel tank, aux battery, etc) A BBK will be installed in the next month.

2 of my 3 trailers have brakes. The one exception is my little jeep trailer weighs <800# loaded and I always miss the brakes. I will get a new axle (or perhaps the timbren setup) with brakes in the next two weeks.

I tow a lot with my Jeep JKU - having the ability to tap on the trailer brakes to control a swaying trailer is well worth it and something I doing often on rough roads with lots of cross winds.

Overlanding is about stress free travel.

Anything I can do to improve driver comfort and confidence, is worthwhile upgrade. After a couple of long trips with crappy shocks and poor brakes, I've shifted my perspective a bit - I now budget for safety/safety performance items rather than the next gadget. Brakes are definitely one of those. Other examples: new windshield wipers 1x year, new headlight bulbs 1x year, tires at 50% wear, replacing suspension bushings & steering components sooner than most, etc...