Questions about trailer solar systems and charging off the tow vehicle, and shore power
- Thread starter Pastryslayer
- Start date
Buddha.
Finally in expo white.
I had a golf cart at my last gig that I was tasked to take a look at because it went dead before the other golf carts. It took me way too long to figure out that it, like all the other golf carts were 48v but the owner had replaced the batteries in this one with 6v batteries instead of the required 8v batteries(6x6=36v not 48v). The GC charger was probably charging at max capacity trying to get the 36v system up to 48v.(eight hours a night) I was impressed that the GC would even operate half a day with no water in the batteries. The owner decided not to replace his new 6v batteries because they worked good enough. 4 months later when I left they were still working "good enough". I refused to plug that thing in at night, it would stink up the whole shop.
I have GC batteries in my travel trailer. They get charged by the "smart" charger(converter) that seems to maintain them well, fingers crossed.
I have GC batteries in my travel trailer. They get charged by the "smart" charger(converter) that seems to maintain them well, fingers crossed.
Pastryslayer
Member
Further development: I located the manual for the inverter/CHARGER 
online. It seems to imply that it will charge the bank off of shore power as long as the inverter is on (and presumably the main cutout switch is on). I'm starting to think I was doing everything right all along, it just didn't matter with batteries that were shot.
If that's the case is this inverter/charger trustworthy enough to plug the trailer into shore power in the garage over the winter to stay topped up? Or do I need something smarter/sexier?
If the shore power will charge and maintain the bank, I'll probably abandon the anderson connector idea. If I was really desperate I could go in with jumper cables.
online. It seems to imply that it will charge the bank off of shore power as long as the inverter is on (and presumably the main cutout switch is on). I'm starting to think I was doing everything right all along, it just didn't matter with batteries that were shot.If that's the case is this inverter/charger trustworthy enough to plug the trailer into shore power in the garage over the winter to stay topped up? Or do I need something smarter/sexier?
If the shore power will charge and maintain the bank, I'll probably abandon the anderson connector idea. If I was really desperate I could go in with jumper cables.
dreadlocks
Well-known member
If you proceed with AGM's you should get one with specific AGM charging profiles as an option or else you could damage them.. if your hooking it up to FLA batteries, they are more standard with charge params and typically work fine as long as its not a constant output and has a bulk/absorb/float charge outputs.
If you want to just plug it in and forget about it all winter, it'd be wise to invest in something a bit more quality...
Jumper cables wont charge it back up, it takes about 6-8h to fully charge a battery thats deeply discharged.. which is better to be driving if your wanting engine charging than idling all day long.. but if your going to have shore power access regularly then you can just rely on an onboard charger and perhaps a small genset.
If you want to just plug it in and forget about it all winter, it'd be wise to invest in something a bit more quality...
Jumper cables wont charge it back up, it takes about 6-8h to fully charge a battery thats deeply discharged.. which is better to be driving if your wanting engine charging than idling all day long.. but if your going to have shore power access regularly then you can just rely on an onboard charger and perhaps a small genset.
Pastryslayer
Member
I think I'm starting to catch on. I'm looking for a charger/inverter with an AGM specific setting (If I use AGMs again). I don't think mine has that, but I could look. I definitely want to stay with a zero maintenance battery, you can't tell from the photos but to get to the bank I had to remove the tongue box and the front wall of the trailer.
As for the jumper cables, it wouldn't be any different than the anderson connector...I still won't be able to connect them while driving. That is a weapon of last resort anyway at this point. I really think the solar is adequate while travelling, I just wasn't using it right. I'll have a better idea once the batteries are back in it.
Mainly I just don't want to set it up for winter and then burn the house down.
Thanks for pointing out your AIMS includes the charging function, I don't use that "combi" design myself.
I have to believe it at least tries to be a proper 3-stage - Bulk CC / Absorb CV then once full drop to Float.
With a cheap DMM and a half-decent battery drawn down say 30-50% DoD, very easy to verify.
Which leave the adjustment of the setpoints to your coming new bank. Or buying a bank that is happy with its setpoints if not adjustable.
Link to the PDF manual online?
I have to believe it at least tries to be a proper 3-stage - Bulk CC / Absorb CV then once full drop to Float.
With a cheap DMM and a half-decent battery drawn down say 30-50% DoD, very easy to verify.
Which leave the adjustment of the setpoints to your coming new bank. Or buying a bank that is happy with its setpoints if not adjustable.
Link to the PDF manual online?
dreadlocks
Well-known member
the powerpole idea is to have your trailer batteries hooked up to your tow vehicle alternator with a heavy gauge cable so its getting a decent charge when in tow.. two 6v ~200AH batteries would be best suited by like a 20-25A charge current, that should get em empty to full in ~6-8h.. but a 7 pin trailer plug on low gauge wiring will only provide like 5A, which would require you to drive constantly for like 30h or more to get a full charge off your tow vehicle.
If you do any long distance/term overlanding charging while driving between locations is a really nice benifit, though if you never drive more than a few hours then it could still be inadequate at keeping your bank full.
If you do any long distance/term overlanding charging while driving between locations is a really nice benifit, though if you never drive more than a few hours then it could still be inadequate at keeping your bank full.
Does not exist.
The two sealed lead chemistries used for deep cycling, AGM vs GEL, simply allow you to avoid topping them up with distilled water.
FLA will actually stand up to neglect otherwise much better than either, but
If that convenience is worth paying a lot more for quality, per AH per year, to you then AGM will stand up better to sub-optimal care than GEL
And potentially be dangerous, unless something like a DCDC charger was there to limit the current draw.
dreadlocks
Well-known member
you can get remote fill ports for FLA's too if they are inconvenient to access.. I think Trojan makes a kit that links all your batteries together with hoses so you just top em all off with a remote port.. for most of us just checking the fluid levels at the end of the season and beginning of the season is more than enough..
Pastryslayer
Member
"Thanks for pointing out your AIMS includes the charging function, I don't use that "combi" design myself."
DWH gets the credit, I missed it until he pointed it out.
"I have to believe it at least tries to be a proper 3-stage - Bulk CC / Absorb CV then once full drop to Float.
With a cheap DMM and a half-decent battery drawn down say 30-50% DoD, very easy to verify.
Which leave the adjustment of the setpoints to your coming new bank. Or buying a bank that is happy with its setpoints if not adjustable."
I understood about 1% of that.
Link to the manual: https://www.aimscorp.net/documents/PWRIC1500W May 5 2018.pdf
More and more I don't see charging off the tow vehicle at all. If I can't get anything useful out of the 7-pin, I sure don't want to try and figure out running heavy gauge wire from my vehicle engine compartment to the trailer.
Our trips run from an a hour and a half up into the Cascades or 3 hours to ONP, to Moab and Yellowstone. Really liking this trailer setup, I just need to get all the systems up and running to take full advantage.
DWH gets the credit, I missed it until he pointed it out.
"I have to believe it at least tries to be a proper 3-stage - Bulk CC / Absorb CV then once full drop to Float.
With a cheap DMM and a half-decent battery drawn down say 30-50% DoD, very easy to verify.
Which leave the adjustment of the setpoints to your coming new bank. Or buying a bank that is happy with its setpoints if not adjustable."
I understood about 1% of that.
Link to the manual: https://www.aimscorp.net/documents/PWRIC1500W May 5 2018.pdf
More and more I don't see charging off the tow vehicle at all. If I can't get anything useful out of the 7-pin, I sure don't want to try and figure out running heavy gauge wire from my vehicle engine compartment to the trailer.
Our trips run from an a hour and a half up into the Cascades or 3 hours to ONP, to Moab and Yellowstone. Really liking this trailer setup, I just need to get all the systems up and running to take full advantage.
dreadlocks
Well-known member
it has a 10A "smart" charger in it that does bulk/float, thats more appropriate for a single battery setup.. it should work fine with lead but its lacking on info to know how it does with AGM, you'd have to use the voltmeter to figure that out perhaps but that would require watching it charge up and seeing its max output and float voltages.. with those dual batteries would be better suited with ~20A or bigger charger for dual AGM if you want it to recharge fully overnight parked somewhere w/AC power..
dont get too hyped up about solar, without knowing your loads it can be very difficult to get enough sunlight in forested environments, any shade cuts em down to like 10% rated output and fixed panels are just stuck with whatever they get where you park it.. this is where an accurate monitoring system comes into play, you can figure out what your daily consumption is, what your capacity is and figure out how long you can go before needing a recharge.. and not just figuring it out when your food gets warm.. with solar thats variable so what you get in your driveway wont be what you see in the field.
dont get too hyped up about solar, without knowing your loads it can be very difficult to get enough sunlight in forested environments, any shade cuts em down to like 10% rated output and fixed panels are just stuck with whatever they get where you park it.. this is where an accurate monitoring system comes into play, you can figure out what your daily consumption is, what your capacity is and figure out how long you can go before needing a recharge.. and not just figuring it out when your food gets warm.. with solar thats variable so what you get in your driveway wont be what you see in the field.
Well chargers don't manage transition from Bulk / CC to Absorb / CV anyway, but yes looks non-adjustable, so need a DMM as above to see what the two setpoints are, what battery type would be suitable.
Need to be on mains at least overnight, 10A is piss weak.
wrt alternator, those few-hour drives would get you back to say 80% from 50%, every bit helps IMO.
Of course no need if you fit a genny and a bit of solar.
Need to be on mains at least overnight, 10A is piss weak.
wrt alternator, those few-hour drives would get you back to say 80% from 50%, every bit helps IMO.
Of course no need if you fit a genny and a bit of solar.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
"I have to believe it at least tries to be a proper 3-stage - Bulk CC / Absorb CV then once full drop to Float.
With a cheap DMM and a half-decent battery drawn down say 30-50% DoD, very easy to verify.
Which leave the adjustment of the setpoints to your coming new bank. Or buying a bank that is happy with its setpoints if not adjustable."
I understood about 1% of that.
Proper lead-acid charging generally follows pretty much the same method...
1. Feed the battery all the amperage the battery can accept, up to the limit of the charger (yours is 10a). Continue until the battery voltage reaches a pre-set value (like say, 14.4v).
That's called the "bulk stage", and since the charger isn't regulating the voltage (the battery is), is called "constant current" charging.
2. Once the battery voltage has reached the bulk stage "setpoint" (14.4v in this example), engage the voltage regulator of the charger, to prevent the battery voltage rising any higher, and hold the battery at a pre-set voltage (say 14.2v) until the battery's electrolyte has absorbed all the electrons it can.
This is called the "absorb stage". Since the charger is regulating the voltage, this is called "constant voltage" charging. The absorb stage ends either after a set time, or the amperage flowing to the battery gets down to a couple of amps or the sun goes down, depending on the charger.
3. Once the absorb stage ends, drop the voltage to a "maintenance voltage" (usually between 13.2v-13.8v depending on who made the charger and if it compensates for temperature). This is called the "float stage".
He was saying to take a half drained battery, turn on the charger and use a a digital multimeter to watch the voltages and see what it does. (Don't feel bad about not understanding what he said, John is an acronym freak who seems to think everyone understands his abbreviations - even the ones he just made up...
Even I get stuck sometimes trying to parse his gibbering.)Yea, um. Pretty crappy manual. All we can tell from that is it's a 10a charger, and it's a "two-stage" (bulk/float, no absorb stage).
10a is marginal for a big battery bank, and the absorb stage is the most important part for getting the battery back to 100% full.
Still, depending on what the float voltage is (manual doesn't say), it probably won't cook your battery if left on all winter. But it might. And it probably won't ever get the battery to 100% either.
You need a good shore charger. That AIMS inverter/charger ain't it.