Questions regarding the Discovery and Discovery II

[Offroad_scott]

Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen.

I have been creeping around the forum a lot, mostly in the Toyota LC forum. But I have been looking at the Disco/Disco II's lately.

What are some of the major issues with the Discos? I am aware of the head gasket issue around 100K but what else?

Is there a company that makes a better head gasket then the factory? When I use to race Hondas' a main stream company made a head gasket for the Honda motors. I know these are not performance vehicles but I would like something a little more reliable then factory. But if you guys/gals recommend the factory one I will go with it.

How are the transmissions, the center diff? Does this system work similar to a Land Cruiser (full time AWD) but a locking center diff?

What is the factory wheel size on the Disco and Disco II? Is it possible to step down in wheel size to increase the sidewall when it comes to tires?

With a 2-2.5" lift what are the biggest tires you can run (looking to run at least 33's)?

Is is worth getting aftermarket lockers and gears?

I know I am asking a lot of questions but feel free to add more information as well.

Scott

 

[El Solis]

I can't answer your questions specifically but the Disco's do quite well w the CDL. I'm fairly certain you can run 33's w a 2" lift. The D1 is 6 inches (I think) shorter than the D2 and its all out of the cargo area. Yes full time 4wd but you get a wheel in the air and it will spin instead of the one on ground (enter left foot braking). I don't know about the head gaskets but I'm part of the Nor Cal Land Rover Club and you are welcome to participate on our forums as a guest. We have lots of Disco drivers and a handful of members who are excellent at working on them


Norcalrovers.org

 

[Offroad_scott]

Thank you El Solis.

I am still debating on which vehicle I should get, FJ80 (Land Cruiser), Disco or Disco 2

 

[Howski]

Use the search function or google - I think most of your questions have been addressed. Head gaskets aren't a 100k issue per se - they can go if you overheat it or have a cooling system in poor condition. If you're not willing to be anal about preventative maintenance and turn wrenches yourself I wouldn't consider a Disco, they are fickle vehicles

 

[cruisertom]

I was a Toyota dealership mechanic back in the mid 90's when the fj80s came out. I have been a die hard Toyota fan for 20+ years and have owned and modded them extensively. I recently purchased a 2003 discovery as I have been looking at them for years and the prices for them on Craigslist is hard to pass up. I have found that the forums are quite a bit different between toyotas and land rovers. The focus is more on mods for toyota and more on repairs for land rovers. That being said if you have the ability to repair yourself then the buy in price of the land rover discovery is hard to pass. The toyota prices are crazy and for a good reason.
The headgaskets and oil pumps are the big issues, in my limited experience looks like oil pumps are the bigger of the two. The CDL is in alot of the discoveries with the 2002-03 being the ones that were omitted from the factory. (have to research to validate the years) Converting to functional CDL is as simple as adding linkage on some and others swapping in a tcase (most I have found are under $250 and bolt in swap) If you are skilled in engine repairs I think the discoverys are a good deal, if not seems quite expensive to keep going if paying someone else to do it for you.

 

[kcabpilot]

As a diehard Land Rover fanatic I have to agree that they do not tolerate neglect well. I cannot imagine owning a Disco as a "checkbook mechanic" - paying someone else to work on it. The head gasket issues, as cruisertom noted, are generally related to overheating which comes from the aforementioned neglect. The cooling system is a bit over complex with a lot of joints where leaks might occur. One of the most common ones is the throttle body heater circuit. On top of that the temperature gauge is electronically buffered so that it remains dead center until the coolant temperature reaches about 240 degrees F at which point it quickly rockets into the read zone because if it has hit 240 there's definitely something wrong but the gauge leads the driver into a false sense that everything's okay. The solution is to frequently check the engine for unexplained coolant loss and leaks. Many owners also install an Ultragauge to monitor the real coolant temperature.

Another common problem is known as the Three Amigos. It's a faulty circuit in the Wabco ABS unit and can be easily fixed with a simple wiring bypass that requires no new parts but years ago people were replacing the entire ABS block at considerable expense.

The oil pump issues were a specific model year and not all inclusive

The Disco uses a CDL combined with electronic traction control actuated by the above mentioned ABS. It works fine but, as with any vehicle, you may want rear and/or front lockers if you are going to do serious rock crawling.

The wheels are either 16 or 18 inch depending on the trim level. You can fit 16 inch wheels to any of them. For 33's you'll need to lift it a few inches.

They are good trucks but the last ones made are now 12 years old and have been out of warranty for a decade so the neglect of maintenance by previous owners is a factor to be considered. I bought my 2001 D2 in 2006 when it had just come out of warranty and was traded in by the original owner and it has been fine for me. At 180,000 miles I swapped the engine for a low mileage 4.6 liter which has better low end torque.

Because of the bad reputation you really can't beat the prices of these things if you're handy with a wrench and know how to take care of them but the aren't for everyone.

 

[Offroad_scott]

Thank you everyone for your input. I am seriously thinking about picking one up as a off road/overland/camping vehicle, well and DD as well.

I do not mind turning a few wrenches but living in an apartment with no garage and this AZ is killer.

 

[PhD_Polymath]

The first thing to look at when/if you get a Discovery is the front driveshaft. From the factory, they are non-serviceable and can't be greased. They live their lives spinning the transfer-case-end u-joints by the catalytic converter, underneath an A/C drip area. Eventually, the dried out, dead u-joints start to chirp. Then, while cruising down the road, the driveshaft will take a trip through the transmission, ruining your day. The solution to this problem can be as cheap as rebuilding the factory shaft with new u-joints, buying a replacement with greasable joints (~$220 from Lucky8), buying a fancy Tom Woods or Great Basin Rovers shaft (both a bit more money, but recommended if a lift is planned), or buying an overpriced stock replacement (which is pretty much pointless).

For head gaskets, if you need to replace them, use Elring brand head gaskets. They are the best. I used ARP studs for my rebuild. Some people hate the studs, but others love them. If you stick with bolts, you will still have to replace them. Luckily, a good gasket set with bolts is only around $200 with everything needed (minus a can of "Right Stuff" gasket maker and other nickel and dime stuff).

A 2" lift will best accommodate 32s, according to what I have heard/read. A 3" lift will work best with 33s.

I don't commonly see complaints about the transmissions. They seem to chug along for the life of the trucks without issue. The transmission is well-made.

Lockers, gears, and axles are good areas for improvement. Specifically, the axles do not care much for big tires. Ashcroft seems to make exceptional replacements.

If you get a Discovery, you will probably fall in love with the way it drives. It is an absolute pleasure to drive and is quite a capable rig in stock trim. With a few minor mods, it becomes amazing.

 

[Ray_G]

For the sake of clarification and posterity, we're conflating Discovery 1 and Discovery II's a bit in this thread. To the degree to which that influences your choices, that may not matter-but is worth sorting out if google brings others here. As El Solis points out, the D1 is a bit shorter (and the taillights are lower if you are trying to identify them from further away).

All D1's have locking center differentials, some D1's are 5 speed (most are automatic). 94-95 came with the 3.9L & 14 CUX engine management system (Dizzy), 96-99 came with the 4.0L & GEMS ECU (coil pack). 14 CUX is regarded as slightly simpler but can also be difficult, at this point I'd say GEMS is more than holding its own as they age. 16" wheels standard, you can fit 15's if you want-few do. 2" lift gets you 235/85's without significant modification elsewhere. 3" lift gets you to 255/85 (33's) but can necessitate a number of mods to get geometry back into right.

Dii's are longer, generally speaking more comfortable. All have an LT230 transfer case, some have the nipple to add on the locking lever, some do not, and some have the lever added back on (later models). Both 4.0 and 4.6 engines were installed (4.6 = 03/04) with Bosch engine management. The later years also have the updated front clip with the headlights and such. Dii's have a factory DC driveshaft that PhD_Polymath notes is not serviceable, that can be a problem and should be addressed immediately if it is still in place. 3 Amigos only applies to Dii's, is n/a in D1's. Minimal, if any, lift will get you to 265/75's and slight lift can get you in 33's-their geometry is more forgiving to get to that range of tire. No Dii in the US came factory with 5 speed. Both D1 and Dii ZF auto transmissions are robust and reliable, as is the LT230 transfer case.

I'm a long term D1 owner so I'm biased but the Dii's tend to have way more HG issues, porous block issues (late in the final production of the ancient motor) and have thinner frames than the D1). That said they are newer, in relative terms, and often can be found fairly cheap.

Both are quite capable in stock form, with perhaps a slight nod to traction control for the Dii but that could be offset with a skinnier ***** in the D1. Clean D1's are getting harder to find and starting to, slightly, rise in price among enthusiasts. That doesn't mean there aren't deals to be found out there for them but the concern there would be maintenance. Dii's seem to have more prolific numbers but that is starting to wane as they age too. Both have ample aftermarkets, the D1 does benefit from sharing many mechanical components with the RRC and Defender in terms of suspension and some elements of drivetrain (axles, differentials, etc).

r-
Ray

 

[kcabpilot]

In regards to studs vs bolts, as far as I know this option is only available if you are doing a complete overhaul due to the fact that when studs are used it is not possible to remove or install the heads with the engine in the vehicle. Another popular modification is called "top hat" or flanged liners which history has fairly well confirmed solves the head gasket, liner and block issues that seem to plague the final 4.0 and 4.6 versions of the Rover V8. While developing my plan to build an uber Rover V8 for my 2001 Disco I added up all of the costs and it came to just under six grand which includes $1500 for the top hat mod, all new gaskets, bearings, pistons, rings, cam, lifters, pushrods, rocker assemblies, valves, guides, springs, oil and water pump, motor mounts, hoses, belts etc and about $500 for misc machine shop work such as milling heads and doing valve seats. I used Atlantic British for parts prices so you could save money on that end by shopping around. This price is assuming you can do all of the labor yourself. A point about this is that if you were going to go that far you'd want to build a 4.6 so you'd need a 4.6 crank and rod set.

If you consider the ultra cheap buy in for an otherwise very decent D2 with a blown engine it's really not a bad deal if you are capable of doing this sort of thing. You end up with a virtually brand new truck with a nearly bullet-proof motor for far less than you'd pay for a Landcruiser with 250,000 miles on it. Of course you'd have the exfoliated knuckles to go along with the labor needed to achieve that goal but hey, that's half the fun

 

[PhD_Polymath]

All my comments are in regards to a D2. As Ray_G mentioned, there are significant differences.

As Kcabpilot mentioned, the "tophat" liners are helpful for longevity in the "newer" (read D2) blocks. The liners are made by Darton and Lucky8 sells them here in the US, if you want to go that route. I ordered liners from Turner in the U.K., as that was the only way I could get the ones that have an o-ring that seals the bottom of the liner where it contacts the block. I used ARP studs ordered from Lucky8 as well. The studs can be used even if the engine is not removed, as they can be threaded out of the block with the head in place, then the heads removed just like bolts. I personally torqued the studs with the engine out the two times it was necessary, as I was doing a full rebuild.

Kcabpilot makes a strong point. Find a cheap Discovery with a bad engine and throw a flanged liner, studded, freshly-rebuilt engine in it. That way, you know the history of the part that causes the most grief and can have peace of mind knowing some weaknesses have been remedied.

 

[kcabpilot]

I may have mentioned this before but another thing to consider if going this route is that there were three "grades" of blocks which were determined by ultrasonic or eddy-current testing at the time of manufacture to find the minimum wall thickness between cylinder bore and water jacket. The grades were Red, Blue and Yellow and will be seen as a daub of colored paint at the rear of the block between engine and transmission. Ironically Red is the best and Yellow the worst. The red blocks were used only for 4.6 motors and the yellow ones only for 4.0 motors whereas the blue ones could be either. So it was known at the time when they started building the 4.0 and 4.6 liter engines that they were pushing the limits of the old design.

There is a very good book called "Power Tuning Rover V8 Engines for Street and Track" that contains a wealth of knowledge on these engines throughout their very long period of production. You can get a Kindle version on Amazon for about twenty bucks. The Disco has some endearing qualities and the D2 is technically the last solid axle Land Rover produced but the engine, for the North American models at least, was definitely the weak point. Fortunately however there are solutions to this if you are handy with a wrench and willing to invest in it.

 

[Roncar]

Just wanted to chime in and say I bought a DII two years ago, even though I was terrified of everything I've heard on here. They just have a charm that I haven't felt in any other overland-type vehicle, really.

In roughly 20k miles of daily driving/expeditioning ownership, my only issue has been a single 02 sensor.

That being said, most important steps (for a DII):

- Any kind of reliable/accurate engine temp gauge. I use an Ultragauge. There's some good knowledge to be found on the Googles about safe operating range.

- Greaseable driveshaft.

- Diesel Freelander thermostat (88c I believe) to get the engine running cooler.

- Headgaskets after 90/100k miles.

- Air suspension replaced, if applicable.

- Stay up on the fluids. It's definitely not a "set it and forget it" vehicle, but treat it well and it treats you well right back.


That being said, I can't imagine any other vehicle for what I use it for - at least in a sub-$10k price range. Comfortable enough for a 10 hour straight road trip, yet capable enough to tackle mud/rock/snow covered trails. All with a roof tent and a hatch full of supplies.

And since it's cheap, you can put it through all kinds of scrub brush and branches and rocks and not care!

Long live Discos. May they stay cheap forever for us believers.