Raise Hitch Winch

[andytruck]

I went to smaller truck, so front hitch is much lower, so winch is now too low.
The winch uses a plate like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cht-31010
On a Nissan Frontier now
I am thinking of welding the plate to a drop hitch, 6 or 8 inches, upside down, so it raises the plate 6 or 8 inches (I think 6 will work).
Dumb question, but I'd like real-world experience not the completely obvious dumb knee-jerk answers that help no one ever... thanks.

The hitches are rated to tow 6,000 lb trailers, or I can get a 16,000lb rated one.
Well,, the winch will pull 9,500lbs and Im sure that is more than a 16,000lb trailer will pull on the hitch. So, if I max out the winch at 9,500 pull, what happens to the drop hitch? (Again, please do not waste out time and forum space with the obvious what-u-think answers, that will not be helpful unless you have tried it first-hand).

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I may can go with a 4 inch drop, but the higher I can get it the better, and the more approach angle I will have. I mounted a generator base on a 10 inch drop (rise) hitch, and it works great, but of course is not heavy.

And the reality is I will not be winching myself (5.000 b truck) straight up a tree, so how much force will be on the winch for the normal light-duty 4 wheeling pull, assuming I am not vacuum stuck in a deep mud pit, which I will not be driving in ever?

 

[Howard70]

Hello AndyTruck:

I haven't tired using one of those first hand so ignore this if you want. Personally I wouldn't try it first hand because I can't see how it would safely work.

The first consideration I'd investigate if I was in your position would be confirming how the current receiver is mounted to the frame of my new truck. Winching exerts a lot of force on the mount and the frame of the vehicle and that force ought to be as straight to the frame as possible. If my current receiver is lined up between the frame rails of my truck, then I'd use that for winching. If it is below the frame I'd have a new receiver mount fabricated.

Personally I would not consider any of the drop mounts you've listed (or any others for that matter) the potential leverage from pulling 6,000 lbs on one of those would terrify me. I realize they are rated from trailer weights close to, or even in excess of, 6000 lbs, but remember towing a 6,000 lbs trailer does not put 6,000 lbs of force on the bar unless you are towing straight up a vertical face.

If the current receiver is between the frame rails and pulls in line with them, but that puts my winch too low then I would carry the winch in the back of my truck and only put it in place when I needed to winch. It it is so low that it's not effective for winching then I'd abandon the receiver mounted winch idea and get a well made bumper with integral winch mount.

Howard

 

[billiebob]

I went to smaller truck, so front hitch is much lower, so winch is now too low.
The winch uses a plate like this https://www.summitracing.com/parts/cht-31010
On a Nissan Frontier now
I am thinking of welding the plate to a drop hitch, 6 or 8 inches, upside down, so it raises the plate 6 or 8 inches (I think 6 will work).
Dumb question, but I'd like real-world experience not the completely obvious dumb knee-jerk answers that help no one ever... thanks.

The hitches are rated to tow 6,000 lb trailers, or I can get a 16,000lb rated one.
Well,, the winch will pull 9,500lbs and Im sure that is more than a 16,000lb trailer will pull on the hitch. So, if I max out the winch at 9,500 pull, what happens to the drop hitch? (Again, please do not waste out time and forum space with the obvious what-u-think answers, that will not be helpful unless you have tried it first-hand).

Draw Tite 40332 Class V 6 Inch Drop Forged 16,000 lbs. Trailer Hitch Ball Mount | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Draw Tite 40332 Class V 6 Inch Drop Forged 16,000 lbs. Trailer Hitch Ball Mount at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

Smittybilt 2906 Trailer Hitch Ball Mount; 6 in. Drop NEW 631410109689 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Smittybilt 2906 Trailer Hitch Ball Mount; 6 in. Drop NEW at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

www.ebay.com

I may can go with a 4 inch drop, but the higher I can get it the better, and the more approach angle I will have. I mounted a generator base on a 10 inch drop (rise) hitch, and it works great, but of course is not heavy.

And the reality is I will not be winching myself (5.000 b truck) straight up a tree, so how much force will be on the winch for the normal light-duty 4 wheeling pull, assuming I am not vacuum stuck in a deep mud pit, which I will not be driving in ever?

Keep it in balance, the hitch fits the reciever which bolts to the Nissan frame, the 16K # hitch might not break but give it a 6" or 10" lever and.... levers add power.

If you want real good advice, email Summit Racing

 

[broncobowsher]

When you add a step in the hitch, going up for your winch, there is something you are overlooking.
You are no longer doing a straight pull. At least the stresses the hitch sees. Hitches are pretty strong with a straight pull. But that offset puts an ugly twist on the hitch. No longer are you simply trying to pull it off, you are now trying to twist it off.

 

[andytruck]

Good point. I notice a lot of after-market bumpers, which would be bolted to the frame, have winches above the line of the truck frame too. Are these not also pulling at a tangent to the frame? I guess the important aspect is would the step hitch bend before the truck frame?

 

[DaveInDenver]

Hello AndyTruck:

I haven't tired using one of those first hand so ignore this if you want. Personally I wouldn't try it first hand because I can't see how it would safely work.

The first consideration I'd investigate if I was in your position would be confirming how the current receiver is mounted to the frame of my new truck. Winching exerts a lot of force on the mount and the frame of the vehicle and that force ought to be as straight to the frame as possible. If my current receiver is lined up between the frame rails of my truck, then I'd use that for winching. If it is below the frame I'd have a new receiver mount fabricated.

Personally I would not consider any of the drop mounts you've listed (or any others for that matter) the potential leverage from pulling 6,000 lbs on one of those would terrify me. I realize they are rated from trailer weights close to, or even in excess of, 6000 lbs, but remember towing a 6,000 lbs trailer does not put 6,000 lbs of force on the bar unless you are towing straight up a vertical face.

If the current receiver is between the frame rails and pulls in line with them, but that puts my winch too low then I would carry the winch in the back of my truck and only put it in place when I needed to winch. It it is so low that it's not effective for winching then I'd abandon the receiver mounted winch idea and get a well made bumper with integral winch mount.

Howard

Compression, tension, moment and torque are unrelenting SOBs. There are no breaking the laws of physics.

 

[andytruck]

Upon further examination....
The hitch receiver is below the hitch frame which is a few more inches below the truck frame, so with the standard winch mount I am pulling 5 inches or so below the truck frame. With a 6 inch drop/rise contraption i would be about 2 inches above the frame, so would actually be correcting an issue, not creating one. The only question, is the first question, which is, how will the drop hitch handle the pull? I doubt I would ever pull the 9,500lbs the winch can, but that is the working number I have to use.
I could make the riser hitch be perfectly inline with the truck frame, but this does not seem to be an issue in the winching world, as almost no winches or receiver hitches are oriented in-line with the frame anyway, always under the frame by 3-4 inches because of the big square receiver hitch tubing.
So, the original question is the only one I can see that matters. I will check the the drop hitch manufacturer and see if they will answer

 

[Howard70]

So, the original question is the only one I can see that matters. I will check the the drop hitch manufacturer and see if they will answer

I'm looking forward to hearing their reply, and would like to know if they say they will warranty the drop hitch for that use at that capacity.

Howard

 

[andytruck]

All manufacturers warranty their items for uses other than what it is intended for. This is obvious and can go without saying.

 

[Howard70]

All manufacturers warranty their items for uses other than what it is intended for. This is obvious and can go without saying.

Good luck with that.

Howard

 

[NatersXJ6]

Upon further examination....
The hitch receiver is below the hitch frame which is a few more inches below the truck frame, so with the standard winch mount I am pulling 5 inches or so below the truck frame. With a 6 inch drop/rise contraption i would be about 2 inches above the frame, so would actually be correcting an issue, not creating one. The only question, is the first question, which is, how will the drop hitch handle the pull? I doubt I would ever pull the 9,500lbs the winch can, but that is the working number I have to use.
I could make the riser hitch be perfectly inline with the truck frame, but this does not seem to be an issue in the winching world, as almost no winches or receiver hitches are oriented in-line with the frame anyway, always under the frame by 3-4 inches because of the big square receiver hitch tubing.
So, the original question is the only one I can see that matters. I will check the the drop hitch manufacturer and see if they will answer

You might want to draw out the force/vector diagram for that one. Just because the line of the force comes back into the same point or a similar point does not indicate that a problem is corrected. All of the components of the system still feel individual forces.

The closest analogy that comes to mind is a wheel spacers versus wheel offset when adding a bigger tire. People say don’t use spacers because you increase the lever arm on the wheel bearing , use proper offset wheels instead to recenter the load on the bearing. This is true, but the wheel still has to be strong enough to take the forces.

while my guess is that a drop hitch will be “enough” for 99.9% of what you realistically pull, you won’t know if you are in 0.1% on any given day... until the last day.

 

[andytruck]

Yea, Im not as concerned if the drop hitch bends, but very concerned if the truck frame bends. Being more inline with the frame, no matter the shape or angles of the drop hitch, should correct the issue of a bent truck frame, that is what I meant to say... Like I say, most of you guys with hitch mount winches are pulling several inches away from inline with the frame too and no issues I have ever heard of.
I will maybe mock up some lighter steel and see what the physics really are...
There is a cross member that I could grab onto so it would be pulling directly off the frame (as well as thru the drop hitch), but I am not sure how strong the cross member is, I cant imagine it not taking at least half

 

[mikeyb1976]

You might want to draw out the force/vector diagram for that one. Just because the line of the force comes back into the same point or a similar point does not indicate that a problem is corrected. All of the components of the system still feel individual forces.

This. I'm visualizing the loads and how everything would interact. I'd say at a significant load, a higher-than-frame height mount (or probably more accurate - center of gravity) would essentially force the nose of the truck down during winching. Think about taking it to the extreme - What would happen if the winch was mounted 20' above the truck? It'd lift the back of the truck up.

As far as a small riser and not using the full capacity of the winch, I don't foresee much of a problem.

 

[Wilbah]

Woukdnt using a drop hitch upside down like that essentially be creating crowbar like leverage against the hitch receiver? In theory if the plate the receiver tube was mounted to was 1" steel or something it wouldnt bend and would just exert that force on the frame rails. But I would be nervous doing it.

 

[billiebob]

so would actually be correcting an issue, not creating one

no, you are doubling the problem