It looks like Ram finally decided to offer a mid-tier off road package on the HD trucks. The new Ram 2500 Rebel apparently uses a substantial amount of the Power Wagon's suspension, but with 18" or 20" wheels and no front locker or electronic sway bar disconnect. The good news is, the Cummins is available, but without the optional winch that the Hemi can get. Also, the payload and towing figures are substantial - without double-checking the spec sheet they look comparable to a regular Ram 2500. A 2500 Rebel with the Hemi, optional winch, and 18" wheels looks like it would be 80% of a Power Wagon with a payload sticker that actually allows doing 3/4-ton truck things with it.
Ram 2500 Rebel
- Thread starter jbaucom
- Start date
Todd780
OverCamper
Huh. I wonder why you still can't get a winch with the Cummins?
Don't a lot of people with Cummins diesels still install a winch aftermarket?
Ram should make it an option like Ford does with the SuperDuty Tremor.
I wonder if the 2500 Rebel will have better payload than the Power Wagon?
Edit:
Ram's Latest Off-Roader Is a Heavy-Duty Rebel
The 2023 Ram 2500 Rebel applies a popular all-terrain formula from the standard-duty 1500 truck but amplified for the HD pickup's size.
www.caranddriver.com
No winch with the Cummins due to interference with the charge air cooler. Guess they didn't want to re-engineer the winch, mount, and/or charge air cooler at this point in the product lifecycle.Huh. I wonder why you still can't get a winch with the Cummins?
Don't a lot of people with Cummins diesels still install a winch aftermarket?
Ram should make it an option like Ford does with the SuperDuty Tremor.
I wonder if the 2500 Rebel will have better payload than the Power Wagon?
Edit:
Ram's Latest Off-Roader Is a Heavy-Duty Rebel
The 2023 Ram 2500 Rebel applies a popular all-terrain formula from the standard-duty 1500 truck but amplified for the HD pickup's size.
I'd be a little cautious believing what they say in regards to payload. Tim Esterdahl recently did a walk around of the Rebel and in the Cummins configuration the payload was only 1483 on the door jam sticker. Like 100lbs more than the Power Wagons. I know the 6.4L Hemi will have much higher payload than the Cummins version but I still think you're looking at a pretty big penalty with a Rebel. My assumption is that payload will be at least 500-600lbs less than a non-Rebel trim. I think it'll be decent but paper specs always vary greatly than what the door jam says.
My 22 Rebel 1500 ecodiesel has 1467 payload. Wow.
I checked the Ram trucks website, and it lists the maximum payload for the Cummins as 1,970 lbs & max towing for the Cummins is 14,920 lbs. According to the website, the 6.4 max payload is 3,140 & max towing for the 6.4 Hemi is 16,870. You give up nearly 1,200 lbs of payload when you opt for the Cummins. For the sake of comparison, a Ram 2500 Laramie 4x4, crew cab, 6'4" bed, with the 6.4 Hemi has a maximum payload of 3,250 lbs and max towing of 17,080 according to the Ram site; the same truck with a Cummins has a max payload of 2,140 lbs & max towing of 16,660 lbs.
Based on these numbers, you aren't giving up much towing and hauling capability with the 2500 Rebel. On the 2500, you take a significant payload hit when you opt for the Cummins, no matter which trim you choose. As always, adding more creature comforts, or a winch, will reduce the available payload. Based on the Ram site data and the payload sticker referenced above, a comparable gas Rebel would've had nearly 2,700 lbs of payload. A nicely equipped, but not loaded, gas 2500 Rebel with a winch should still have close to 2,700-2,800 lbs of payload if you don't check all the option boxes - more than 1,000 lbs more than a Power Wagon.
Based on these numbers, you aren't giving up much towing and hauling capability with the 2500 Rebel. On the 2500, you take a significant payload hit when you opt for the Cummins, no matter which trim you choose. As always, adding more creature comforts, or a winch, will reduce the available payload. Based on the Ram site data and the payload sticker referenced above, a comparable gas Rebel would've had nearly 2,700 lbs of payload. A nicely equipped, but not loaded, gas 2500 Rebel with a winch should still have close to 2,700-2,800 lbs of payload if you don't check all the option boxes - more than 1,000 lbs more than a Power Wagon.
BlueLabelDrinker
Member
In hindsight, a Hemi Rebel would've probably been a more attractive option than my '21 Tradesman PW. Then I looked at the price; my truck stickered for $54k (I got mine for 51k with 8k miles last October), but the equivalent Rebel would now run roughly $10k+ more. Hard to justify that price and trade a front locker and disconnecting swaybar for roughly 1,200 pounds more payload (mine is rated for 1,517 pounds, and it already has the winch).
Pic for attention:
Pic for attention:
malibubts
Adventurer
Not sure how much looking you've done recently but pretty much all Rams have gone up by 10k plus in the past year. I was looking at Power Wagons around this time last year and couldn't find anyone to budge from MSRP so I decided to wait. I should not have done that as a base Power Wagon went from ~57k to ~67k and I think it's going up again for '23. I at least was able to find a dealer not stuck on MSRP so it wasn't too bad.
Side note, nice Tree House!
Unless you really need the payload or the towing numbers I think the Power Wagon is still the better move. Front locker, articulink, front swaybar disconnect, 17s, softer springs, etc. Aside from the rear locker and the winch the Rebel seems mostly like an appearance package to me. Ram really needs to offer the electronic rear locker on any trim, they are behind the ball on that. Then there are some hidden winch mounts out there for the 2500s. So aside from the looks you'd have a Rebel, which is probably why they are holding back that locker from all models.
The Rebel has articulink. According to both Car and Driver and Motortrend, the Rebel 2500 shares the Power Wagon suspension, including shocks, springs, articulink, and ride height. The Rebel loses the sway bar disconnects and front locker. What the Rebel has that the Power Wagon simply cannot achieve in any fashion is a payload sticker that has a real, competitive, 3/4-ton truck rating.
malibubts
Adventurer
If you take a look at Ram's promo video for the truck it does not show the Articulink front control arms:
Articulink Arms:
The promo page on the ram site is showing articulink in the suspension photo but it’s on the passenger side. I’ve heard that with the 6.7 you can run one but they don’t suggest both control arms with the link. Or are they only adding it to the hemi trucks... I guess we’ll know once they start hitting dealers.
The moment I no longer needed to tow heavy I sold my Cummins and went with a power wagon, no regrets.
The moment I no longer needed to tow heavy I sold my Cummins and went with a power wagon, no regrets.
malibubts
Adventurer
Yeah Ram definitely seems to be very ambiguous about some of the features the Rebel may or may not have, especially the Articulink. we'll have to wait and see what shows up at lots or gets in the hands of reviewers to know for sure.
But I have seen the same comments about folks running 1 Articulink control arm as well on the Cummins trucks. A bit of speculation here, but I would guess that the lower GVWR is mostly due to the springs but also the Articulink has some bearing on this with stability when heavily loaded. It then really wouldn't be a stretch for Ram to remove the sway bar disconnect then with the stated reason being without Articulink it's not necessary.
But I have seen the same comments about folks running 1 Articulink control arm as well on the Cummins trucks. A bit of speculation here, but I would guess that the lower GVWR is mostly due to the springs but also the Articulink has some bearing on this with stability when heavily loaded. It then really wouldn't be a stretch for Ram to remove the sway bar disconnect then with the stated reason being without Articulink it's not necessary.
It would not shock me, when Ram finally releases more detailed information about specs and features, that the Hemi trucks have Articulink and the Cummins trucks do not. The Ram site gives absolutely no written indication that Articulink is a feature on the Rebel, but I would think that if the Motor Trend article claimed erroneously that the Rebel would have Articulink, then it would have been brought to their attention and corrected by now.
BlueLabelDrinker
Member
If true re: Hemi/Articulink versus Cummins/regular, that'll finally dispel one of the questions why PWs have such lower payloads than non-PW Hemi 2500s, given that the Hemi Rebels are listed at 3k-ish pounds payload but the Hemi PWs are half that much. The frame, brakes, shocks, etc. are no different, so it must be the D versus E-rated tires or the lift that dropped their capabilities?