http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/the-truth-about-the-ford-raptor-1506180244
Interesting view of the Ford Raptor frame damage controversy.
Interesting view of the Ford Raptor frame damage controversy.
raptor frame controversy
- Thread starter haven
- Start date
pappawheely
Autonomous4X4
They always say bend but don't they really crush the frame?
Flagster
Expedition Leader
oh you mean I can't do this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-HOiQo5OA
Good thing he had that armor on the front...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w-HOiQo5OA
Good thing he had that armor on the front...
pappawheely
Autonomous4X4
Now that was clearly a frame bender!
east_tn_81
Adventurer
cant fix stupid.
FordGuy1
Adventurer
This makes me laugh every-time I read about bent Raptor frames. The Dealer I work at repairs more Raptors than any dealer in the U.S, including a lot of work for the Off-road racers who most of them now own Raptors. Its funny that the only bent frames we see are caused by people who don't have a clue how to drive and/or are clueless about the capabilities of a production vehicle. Most of the time when the frames are bent there are bent spindles, pretensioners are blown, etc.. I have Pre-Run over 2k in a Raptor beating the crap out of it with plenty of air time, zero issues other than a few power steering pump seals. Don't get me wrong, stupid people who think they are Mario Andretti make me a lot of money!
Hilldweller
SE Expedition Society
It's video games.
People play them and think they know how to drive.
My coworker's kid got a bunch of tickets, a few crashes, and arrested. Dad bailed him out and tried to fix the stupid in him. Took him to a race school that I recommended, had him instructed by professional race car drivers, taught the limits of control, etc.
The kid's take on things? "I learned more from the video games."
It's the movie Idiocracy happening to us.
People play them and think they know how to drive.
My coworker's kid got a bunch of tickets, a few crashes, and arrested. Dad bailed him out and tried to fix the stupid in him. Took him to a race school that I recommended, had him instructed by professional race car drivers, taught the limits of control, etc.
The kid's take on things? "I learned more from the video games."
It's the movie Idiocracy happening to us.
AFSOC
Explorer
This post caused me to spend close to an hour on Youtube watching people jumping their Raptors, Geeez! I would have never guessed that so many people would get the impression that their new Raptor is a stadium truck. There seems to be no end to peoples capacity for poor judgment. On the other hand, having seen some video of what a stock Raptor is capable of absorbing from the showroom...well done Ford/Fox!!! How much more air is the 2015 model year Alu version going to be capable of?
1stDeuce
Explorer
We make desert racing jounce shocks where I work, so I've looked into the raptor frame "issue" extensively, from the perspective of "is there a problem" and "can we sell something". I can tell you as a mechanical engineer with years of chassis design and vehicle dynamics experience that the main "issue" is that the guy behind the wheel doesn't fully comprehend physics. This is not helped by Ford's marketing hype and videos, and failure to provide the uninformed "video game kid" with a simple understanding of physics.
The explanation they should be providing every customer is simple and could be something like this: "If you run over an obstacle at a high rate of speed, and that obstacle is larger than the available suspension travel, the suspension will "bottom out" and impart the additional travel directly to the frame of the vehicle. If the rate of speed is high, and the obstacle significantly larger than the available travel, the vehicle and occupants may become damaged by the excessive forces generated after the suspension has bottomed."
The frame is indeed crushing, right where the jounce bumper is mounted... Or rather, the axle is shoving the jounce bumper up through the frame, and bending the frame in the process. That means the forces at work are HUGE. Hitting a 14" bump or rut at 80mph requires the rear axle to move up about 12" in a fraction of a second, and there's only about 8" of up-travel available on a stock Raptor assuming the jounce bumper fully compresses, so the extra 4" of axle displacement is trying to lift the whole rear of the truck 4" in about .05 seconds. How much force you think that takes? Enough to collapse it and bow it from the impact loading, that's a proven fact!
My take is that there's a plus side to this failure mode... Having the frame bend is probably saving a LOT of people from having neck and back problems for the rest of their lives. The frame crushing is actually dissipating the excessive g-forces that would otherwise be spiking up though the driver's/passenger's spines, thus SAVING the drivers and passengers from becoming critically injured!
And we ended up leaving the application of our jounce shock to the guys at SuperDuty HQ, who already had a pretty sweet mounting setup for our units. They don't fix physics, but they add a little protection for a slightly overdriven obstacle. You have to realize that the trophy trucks that you see bombing the desert at 80mph have upwards of 15" of suspension travel, and drivers VERY skilled at reading terrain and keeping the speed in check for what they see... Good luck learning that through a video game or w/o breaking something occasionally!
Chris
The explanation they should be providing every customer is simple and could be something like this: "If you run over an obstacle at a high rate of speed, and that obstacle is larger than the available suspension travel, the suspension will "bottom out" and impart the additional travel directly to the frame of the vehicle. If the rate of speed is high, and the obstacle significantly larger than the available travel, the vehicle and occupants may become damaged by the excessive forces generated after the suspension has bottomed."
The frame is indeed crushing, right where the jounce bumper is mounted... Or rather, the axle is shoving the jounce bumper up through the frame, and bending the frame in the process. That means the forces at work are HUGE. Hitting a 14" bump or rut at 80mph requires the rear axle to move up about 12" in a fraction of a second, and there's only about 8" of up-travel available on a stock Raptor assuming the jounce bumper fully compresses, so the extra 4" of axle displacement is trying to lift the whole rear of the truck 4" in about .05 seconds. How much force you think that takes? Enough to collapse it and bow it from the impact loading, that's a proven fact!
My take is that there's a plus side to this failure mode... Having the frame bend is probably saving a LOT of people from having neck and back problems for the rest of their lives. The frame crushing is actually dissipating the excessive g-forces that would otherwise be spiking up though the driver's/passenger's spines, thus SAVING the drivers and passengers from becoming critically injured!
And we ended up leaving the application of our jounce shock to the guys at SuperDuty HQ, who already had a pretty sweet mounting setup for our units. They don't fix physics, but they add a little protection for a slightly overdriven obstacle. You have to realize that the trophy trucks that you see bombing the desert at 80mph have upwards of 15" of suspension travel, and drivers VERY skilled at reading terrain and keeping the speed in check for what they see... Good luck learning that through a video game or w/o breaking something occasionally!
Chris
pappawheely
Autonomous4X4
My prerunner has over 17". I thought the Trophy Trucks were running 24" in the front and 30"+ in the rear.
1stDeuce
Explorer
Ooops, my bad. I meant that Trophy Trucks have 15" of UP-travel from normal ride height. I think most do have 30" of overall travel. Your pre-runner probably has 10" or so of up-travel from ride height. A raptor has quite a bit less than that, and if you're not aware that certain events require more travel, you're going to bend your frame. Sweet truck, BTW!!
Apparently common sense isn't so common.
Well put:
Well put:
We make desert racing jounce shocks where I work, so I've looked into the raptor frame "issue" extensively, from the perspective of "is there a problem" and "can we sell something". I can tell you as a mechanical engineer with years of chassis design and vehicle dynamics experience that the main "issue" is that the guy behind the wheel doesn't fully comprehend physics. This is not helped by Ford's marketing hype and videos, and failure to provide the uninformed "video game kid" with a simple understanding of physics.
The explanation they should be providing every customer is simple and could be something like this: "If you run over an obstacle at a high rate of speed, and that obstacle is larger than the available suspension travel, the suspension will "bottom out" and impart the additional travel directly to the frame of the vehicle. If the rate of speed is high, and the obstacle significantly larger than the available travel, the vehicle and occupants may become damaged by the excessive forces generated after the suspension has bottomed."
The frame is indeed crushing, right where the jounce bumper is mounted... Or rather, the axle is shoving the jounce bumper up through the frame, and bending the frame in the process. That means the forces at work are HUGE. Hitting a 14" bump or rut at 80mph requires the rear axle to move up about 12" in a fraction of a second, and there's only about 8" of up-travel available on a stock Raptor assuming the jounce bumper fully compresses, so the extra 4" of axle displacement is trying to lift the whole rear of the truck 4" in about .05 seconds. How much force you think that takes? Enough to collapse it and bow it from the impact loading, that's a proven fact!
My take is that there's a plus side to this failure mode... Having the frame bend is probably saving a LOT of people from having neck and back problems for the rest of their lives. The frame crushing is actually dissipating the excessive g-forces that would otherwise be spiking up though the driver's/passenger's spines, thus SAVING the drivers and passengers from becoming critically injured!
And we ended up leaving the application of our jounce shock to the guys at SuperDuty HQ, who already had a pretty sweet mounting setup for our units. They don't fix physics, but they add a little protection for a slightly overdriven obstacle. You have to realize that the trophy trucks that you see bombing the desert at 80mph have upwards of 15" of suspension travel, and drivers VERY skilled at reading terrain and keeping the speed in check for what they see... Good luck learning that through a video game or w/o breaking something occasionally!
Chris
Ooops, my bad. I meant that Trophy Trucks have 15" of UP-travel from normal ride height. I think most do have 30" of overall travel. Your pre-runner probably has 10" or so of up-travel from ride height. A raptor has quite a bit less than that, and if you're not aware that certain events require more travel, you're going to bend your frame. Sweet truck, BTW!!