Realistic weight or length limits?

[ReluctantTraveler]

it's ALL about your weight distribution.

Carry your water / waste tanks, battery bank, propane bottles, galley appliances, recovery winch etc forward of an axle

place your sleeping / sitting spaces to the rear and you can extend out as far as practical

I suspected as much.

My current design has all of the heavy stuff between the two axles (water, gas, etc.), with a cabover sleeper and a rear dinette/sleeper. I'd end up with a bit more weight in the tail end once I add a tire, bikes, or other toys, but that feels like it should be a relatively balanced.

I'd need to do the math, of course.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Related to weight limits: how do y'all calculate the weight of your camper before you build it?

Is it literally "inventory all the things and add them up"? My brain is dreading that level of tediousness, but I know it's necessary.

 

[rruff]

That is a good start... and if you think that is tedious, wait until you start building!

Note that you will probably underestimate the total weight, but try to be realistic about the heavy stuff at least.

 

[DiploStrat]

Take your best estimate and add 1-2,000 kg. You will be close.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

This remains the classic discussion: http://www.silkroute.org.uk/equipment/choosevan.htm

Agree or not as you choose. The bigger/longer/heavier you get, the more comfortable you will be and the more digging you will do.

That article is such a GREAT resource. Thank you!

(I also discovered that a good term for what I'm trying to build is a "bad road" vehicle. Nice way to distinguish from the true off-road trucks a lot of y'all build here.)

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

That is a good start... and if you think that is tedious, wait until you start building!

Note that you will probably underestimate the total weight, but try to be realistic about the heavy stuff at least.

???

Thanks! I'm mostly trying to figure out if I could get by with an F-350/3500 platform (on dullies), or if I'd need to jump up to the F-450/F-550. Obviously, I'd rather have the bigger payload capacity, but if I find an affordable F-350, a "good enough" truck is better than none at all!

 

[DiploStrat]

???

Thanks! I'm mostly trying to figure out if I could get by with an F-350/3500 platform (on dullies), or if I'd need to jump up to the F-450/F-550. Obviously, I'd rather have the bigger payload capacity, but if I find an affordable F-350, a "good enough" truck is better than none at all!

Having this conversation with someone else. You will NEVER regret building on a 550/5500.

Watched Tiger go from 250 to 350 and my 350 build was overweight. Had the conversation with GXV - their answer is "We won't build on less than a 550." Watched XPCamper build on 350s. Listened to XP owners complain about the weight. Nimbl started on a 350 with a custom spring pack. Their latest was shown on a 550.

There is a pattern here. YMMV

 

[pugslyyy]

Having this conversation with someone else. You will NEVER regret building on a 550/5500.

Watched Tiger go from 250 to 350 and my 350 build was overweight. Had the conversation with GXV - their answer is "We won't build on less than a 550." Watched XPCamper build on 350s. Listened to XP owners complain about the weight. Nimbl started on a 350 with a custom spring pack. Their latest was shown on a 550.

There is a pattern here. YMMV

Yep, the smallest we will build on is a 11,900 GVWR 1-ton, and we go up from there.

A significant component of our weight is the fresh water tank. We carry 75 gallons, or 626 pounds.

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

@DiploStrat @pugslyyy Thank you both!

This is one of things where I think I could sneak by with an F-350/3500 with maxed out stats, but most used trucks in that category are SRW with lower payloads. If I could find a good used crew cab F-550 (the holy grail!), I'd snap one up in a heartbeat.

At the moment, I'm saving up for a new one because the used truck market is bonkers right now.

 

[rruff]

Obviously, I'd rather have the bigger payload capacity, but if I find an affordable F-350, a "good enough" truck is better than none at all!

Based on the desires you've outlined in various threads, you definitely want the 550. The 350 would only be sensible if you were willing to downsize.

Price isn't that much different. You'll need to pay more attention to dealing with a stiff box on a flexible frame, but that is doable.

 

[1000arms]

... I'd been planning to use a flatbed as my subframe, since I'm not planning on doing much (any) real offroading. However, most vendors here want to install something much shorter than I'd want based on the CA ratio. Looks like I may be in "custom subframe" territory now.

Most flatbed manufacturers have designed their flatbeds for commercial use rather than for a camper. Even after a conversation with you about using their (custom) flatbed for a camper, they may be concerned about a future new owner misloading the flatbed and making the front tires have little contact with the ground.

Keep in mind that many slide-in truck campers overhang the bed of a truck a lot, and by design.

You could design your flatbed camper to do the same. Just keep in mind towing, the difficulty of using a receiver hitch bike rack, and that the camper becomes the rear bumper of the truck (in most situations).

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Most flatbed manufacturers have designed their flatbeds for commercial use rather than for a camper. Even after a conversation with you about using their (custom) flatbed for a camper, they may be concerned about a future new owner misloading the flatbed and making the front tires have little contact with the ground.

Is that what's driving those limits? It's like a, "what if you put too much weight on the rear and hinge the front of the truck up" kind of thing? That makes a lot of sense!

You could design your flatbed camper to do the same. Just keep in mind towing, the difficulty of using a receiver hitch bike rack, and that the camper becomes the rear bumper of the truck (in most situations).

Indeed! My current design has a 12-foot bed with a 2-foot angled overhang (similar to IdaSHO's camper but longer) to keep the hitch accessible. I also have a sketch of a longer overhang if I end up with a shorter wheelbase.

Do flatbed manufacturers offer spring mounts, or is that something you have to DIY? Would I be better served with a custom subframe, given everything we've discussed?

 

[ReluctantTraveler]

Price isn't that much different.

It's really not, which I found really surprising!

The bigger difference is that crew bag F-350's are MUCH more common around me (plenty of F-550's, mostly regular or super cab). But most F-350's are SRW, which means they won't really work (too low a payload).

 

[rruff]

I don't know if they'd work for you, but look at the F450 pickup. As I recall, they have the stiff frame of the 350 with the front end and good turning circle of the 550. The stiff frame would simplify mounting, and the turning circle is a real nice feature. But... you appear to be stuck with a diesel on the F450...? Strange...

I don't think flatbed manufacturers typically provide flex mounts. I've seen overland companies that do, but... $$$.

 

[1000arms]

... Do flatbed manufacturers offer spring mounts, or is that something you have to DIY? Would I be better served with a custom subframe, given everything we've discussed?

Keep in mind that chassis cab trucks (plus commercial beds and boxes/van-bodies) are driven many miles on US Forest Service roads (or the equivalent).

Please also keep in mind that those truck frames are usually designed to spread the loads of the beds/boxes across the frame. Concentrating those loads on a few points through custom spring mounts might result in damaged/broken frames.

For the driving that you have mentioned in other posts/threads, I think you would best served with a "stock" flatbed that you would then build your camper body on. Overhang the rear as you need (within limits). Extending the camper 4' beyond the end of a 12' flatbed on a crew cab 84" cab to axle 4x4 F-550 seems reasonable to me. Just limit the overhang to bunks or empty living space.

Although the 2017+ F-250/350/450 Pickup truck frames are fully boxed, and the 2017+ F-350/450/550/600 chassis cab trucks are only boxed under the cab and forward (with C-channel aft-of-cab), the Ford 2017+ chassis cab truck frames are much stiffer than they used to be.

I don't know if they'd work for you, but look at the F450 pickup. As I recall, they have the stiff frame of the 350 with the front end and good turning circle of the 550. The stiff frame would simplify mounting, and the turning circle is a real nice feature. But... you appear to be stuck with a diesel on the F450...? Strange...

I don't think flatbed manufacturers typically provide flex mounts. I've seen overland companies that do, but... $$$.

The 2022 F-450 DRW CCLB 4x4 only comes with the diesel engine and has a max payload of 5,320 pounds. (It does have a conventional towing capacity (bumper) of 24,300 pounds!) The turning radius is much nicer than the F-350 CCLB.

The 2022 F-350 DRW CCLB 4x4, with a gas engine, has a max payload of 6,530 pounds.

Yep, the smallest we will build on is a 11,900 GVWR 1-ton, and we go up from there.

A significant component of our weight is the fresh water tank. We carry 75 gallons, or 626 pounds.

@DiploStrat @pugslyyy Thank you both!

This is one of things where I think I could sneak by with an F-350/3500 with maxed out stats, but most used trucks in that category are SRW with lower payloads. If I could find a good used crew cab F-550 (the holy grail!), I'd snap one up in a heartbeat.

At the moment, I'm saving up for a new one because the used truck market is bonkers right now.

The 2017+ F-350/450 DRW pickups have a 14,000 GVWR.

The 2017+ F-550 (DRW) CC chassis cab would likely be the easiest frame for you to build on and avoid being at your maximum payload (or beyond), but, run your numbers to be "backpacking light" on your truck, and see if you could make use of a a 2017+ F-350 pickup or chassis cab. If nothing else, it will help you with thinking "light".

... Say, do your kids want to sleep in hammocks inside your camper? ...

Remember, many National parks have vehicle length restrictions. These might be for roads and/or campgrounds. (Some place might have height restrictions.)