Reality check for diesel-systemed truck camper
- Thread starter astn
- Start date
Quite a neat little thread here.
Diesel appliances in an RV have my full attention. I think if you have a diesel powered truck, you owe it to yourself to try and research the diesel systems, because having one fuel for everything is quite simplistic. When I build my camper it will have a Webasto Stove and Webasto Dualtop for heating/hot water. Putting aside the "single fuel" pros, I think another big pro is having such an abundance overall of fuel. It is very easy to transport liquid fuel, and very compact to do so. A 5 gallon jug of fuel is much lighter and easier to carry than a 5 gallon propane tank, and it carries far more BTU's. Where I plan to camp, in cold weather, having a diesel furnace will be very efficient.
As far as reality goes, these appliances are not too expensive, but definitely costly. The stove and heater cost around 4-5k combined, so it can put a dent in your plan. It would be much easier and cheaper to simply throw a propane tank, run a line and hook up a cheap catalytic heater. IMO , unless I was building a new camper, I would just go with propane. Diesel appliances are best left to the more expensive, newer campers, valued at 50-100k or more. Having a 5-10k diesel system in a camper worth only 5-10k itself might be a waste and overkill. JMO
Diesel appliances in an RV have my full attention. I think if you have a diesel powered truck, you owe it to yourself to try and research the diesel systems, because having one fuel for everything is quite simplistic. When I build my camper it will have a Webasto Stove and Webasto Dualtop for heating/hot water. Putting aside the "single fuel" pros, I think another big pro is having such an abundance overall of fuel. It is very easy to transport liquid fuel, and very compact to do so. A 5 gallon jug of fuel is much lighter and easier to carry than a 5 gallon propane tank, and it carries far more BTU's. Where I plan to camp, in cold weather, having a diesel furnace will be very efficient.
As far as reality goes, these appliances are not too expensive, but definitely costly. The stove and heater cost around 4-5k combined, so it can put a dent in your plan. It would be much easier and cheaper to simply throw a propane tank, run a line and hook up a cheap catalytic heater. IMO , unless I was building a new camper, I would just go with propane. Diesel appliances are best left to the more expensive, newer campers, valued at 50-100k or more. Having a 5-10k diesel system in a camper worth only 5-10k itself might be a waste and overkill. JMO
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Obviously, there is a tremendous difference in the amount of heat generated.
So the question is; How much is enough?
The answer is; It depends.
Warming an engine up to a point where it starts easily is one thing in Siberia at -90F, and something else in a 0F environment.
I don't see that the choice of pre-heating the oil over a longer time with a heating pad and a small generator vs. pre-heating the coolant over a shorter time with a hydronic is necessarily resolved with a simple, "bigger is better".
Don't get me wrong - given the choice, I'd go with the hydronic setup. But it's a lot more expensive and has a lot more potential points of failure, so I can easily see not going that route if it isn't really needed and there is a viable alternative for the planned operating environment.
Which there is.
I install Espar heaters in a lot of different equipment. I would recommend an Airtronic D2-D4 unit for heat and use a Hydronic D5 for the engine. By the time you come up with all the plumbing and disconnects combined with all the time and extra failure/leak points with a disconnect-able system you pretty much covered the cost of running an Airtronic separately. Getting diesel into a camper from a factory fuel tank could easily be done with a disconnect as a 1/4" fuel line would feed all of your appliances.
I have an F-700 4x4 camper that is custom built, I run a D4 for heat inside and a D5 Hydronic on the engine. I also have propane for cooking, refrigerator, built in outside barbecue and burner, pretty hard to beat propane for cooking, especially with a barbecue, steak just don't taste the same off a diesel fire. I have a 140 liter frame mounted propane tank, and I can run a couple of propane lanterns off of the system as well which does away with the 1 pound cylinders. I run the D4 for heat as it is extremely efficient and RV furnaces are so noisy in comparison. It's a combination that should work well for me.
I have an F-700 4x4 camper that is custom built, I run a D4 for heat inside and a D5 Hydronic on the engine. I also have propane for cooking, refrigerator, built in outside barbecue and burner, pretty hard to beat propane for cooking, especially with a barbecue, steak just don't taste the same off a diesel fire. I have a 140 liter frame mounted propane tank, and I can run a couple of propane lanterns off of the system as well which does away with the 1 pound cylinders. I run the D4 for heat as it is extremely efficient and RV furnaces are so noisy in comparison. It's a combination that should work well for me.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
The less noise for me would be a big benefit - I hate the furnace noise.
dzzz
™
These are quiet at low speed. And these units are almost always running at low speed. The problem is that the combustion area becomes dirty if the furnace seldom runs at full power. The downside of running relatively dirty diesel compared to propane.
It seems many sportsmobile users consider the D4 to be oversized. But a lot depends if the use is a chilly night in the spring/fall, or winter skiing.
I have a Thermoking Tripac APU in my Freightliner. It has a 2 cylinder Yanmar diesel 12V generator connected to the trucks cooling system with a belt driven Air Conditioning system, an Espar Airtronic heater and an inverter for 120V power. When operating or in null mode the generator starts itself when battery voltage drops below a preset value or when coolant temp drops below 30 degrees. I have spent many comfortable worry free nights in below zero temperatures with no fuel additives.
http://www.thermoking.com/promo_ads/TriPac_Brochure.pdf
7 July 28 degrees F Yellowstone NP
http://www.thermoking.com/promo_ads/TriPac_Brochure.pdf
7 July 28 degrees F Yellowstone NP
The Espar D2 BTW is the best component. It's a tiny thing, very quiet with a variable speed fan and seems to make no great demands of the batteries (4 group 31 AGM's). It somehow keeps the cab/sleeper temp amazingly constant with very little draft or obvious air movement from a single little 2 1/2" vent.
Photomike
White Turtle Adventures & Photography
A friend has either this unit or similar in his semi and he is amazed at how warm it keeps him. In real cold weather he starts it up several hours before starting the truck, then when he starts the truck it has already started doing its job. Runs the truck for a while then it is on the road, from the time he leaves till the time he gets back home (usually a week or two) the inside of his truck is nice and warm and he hauls in some nasty places.
Diesel has about 50% more BTU's per gallon than propane and you can add a separate tank for your heating system using untaxed diesel this pretty much eliminates the price differential. Diesel is available everywhere and quick to fill. It's safer than carrying a pressurized tank which are prohibited in many tunnels. Propane tanks have to be removable and take up space.
Its also a pain in Europe, where you have a wide variety of non swappable clylinders between countries, suppliers within each country, even within the same supplier if you want to change size, with different connections, as well as LPG filling stations being non-existant in some areas, and banning RV fill up in others like southern France. Diesel fired heating has saved a lot of headaches and new cylinder "deposits" for me in the last few years!
uriedog
metal melter
I use mine TC for the same reasons. And it is removed after each trip. I need the truck to drive to work every day. Actually we have never used it in the summer. Coldest night spent was -30'c. We move it allot and when I have the family with me we leave the heat on all day. When I go out alone I turn it off during the day. It heats up inside very fast. I had thought about putting a little heater core (like a toyota rear seat heater) and use quick connects out the back of the cab to heat it while we are driving. May still do it, although not with the current camper as I am going to get different one