Rear Panhard Conversion

[ZG]

As per popular request, I have decided to do a thread on the panhard rear conversion. I am not stepping in uncharted territories, and it is not the end-all solution for ultimate articulation by any means, I just want the info out there. I'm sure a lot of you know this, this is for those that don't.

Basically the idea is that with a watts linkage, you have reasonable articulation until a certain point where the linkage binds and there's no more give. There are ways around this, RTE has an extended watts linkage, as does Lucky8. I did not want to stay with the watts linkage as it's more complex and expensive to replace the bushings WHEN they DO go.

The benefit for a watts is definitely there, because it moves in a straight line essentially.

However, there is a curve and end to that line. Here is a panhard, it curves but allows for more movement.

I ended up buying the Ruff Stuff Specialties Panhard kit. It is a very nice kit that is all inclusive, everything you need to do the conversion comes with it. It is important to specify axle offset bracket and frame outside panhard. It can be found here: Panhard Kit - RuffStuff Specialties

Here's a photo I took of what I received in the package:

Basically you remove the Watts linkage, grind down the outside where there's that little bracket that hangs back, and weld the new brackets it. I am no good with a welder, so I had Don Trudeau(greatdivide91 on here) of Portsmouth bang out the job for me. He did a great job and I highly recommend him. He did it to his own truck before mine.

And here it is finished:

As you can see it is coated in underbody spray, as we get a lot of corrosion in the North Eastern states.


Cheers,
Zack

 

[frank84]

That's cool - I didn't know there was a kit for this. Let us know how it works out on/off road.

 

[ZG]

So far I've driven 350 miles on it, from Portsmouth to Ipswich back to VT, took it on some obstacles around the area, it's been amazing. No different than the watts on-road, but way flexier and smoother off road. I've been up to about 85mph and it's smooth as butter. That's with 3.5" lift, no rear sway bar, and 33s.

 

[LR Max]

My main concern would be from "axle wrap" (for a lack of a better term). That puts all kinds of fun lateral forces on that setup.

That said, I am now looking at the pre-made link options available from Ruff Stuff. Has my mind wandering now...

 

[ZG]

Thanks for the info LR. Can you explain further? I'm trying to understand the drawbacks of this setup, as axle wrap doesn't seem to be very prevalent on a DII with the radius arms not allowing the axle to "wrap".

 

[getlost4x4]

keep an eye on those rod ends. I've had them fail before on my steering set-up years ago. Luckily i was in a parking lot and not on the interstate. they will probably rust out as well.

 

[ZG]

Yep- I've got an extra set on order to have as backups. I'm not a big fan of heim joints.

 

[tacr2man]

Probabaly not a popular post , but , dont see what the plus points are , Land rover are probably at the forefront of suspension design for 4x4 vehicles in the world, and could have gone for that set up if they thought it was an improvement, on what is an expensive end of 4x4 market. It moves the rear suspension side to side as it operates, and looks to be a high maintenance and addition to NVH, and does not look that robust. But then its not for me to limit your freedom as its your vehicle. If you want to see some more articulation mods theres an ausssie guy called Bill van Snorkel ( no joke) who did amazing things with a series , worth a google
JMHO

 

[ZG]

Thank you for the input Tacr. I agree, Land Rover does exceptional suspension work, their systems are incredibly well thought out and work fantastically stock. However, on a D2, when you lift it quite a bit(to reduce issues with the awful rear overhang) you get binding on the watts linkage that does not allow for greater articulation. I assure you while it may not appear robust, it definitely is!

 

[Howski]

Land rover are probably at the forefront of suspension design for 4x4 vehicles in the world, and could have gone for that set up if they thought it was an improvement, on what is an expensive end of 4x4 market

From my understanding the Watts linkage was used on the D2 to enhance the suspension for everyday duty on the streets, improving the suspension for their target customer. with this, off road performance taking a back seat. The Watts isn't terrible but it becomes a limiting factor when you've brought your vehicle to the level RN has

 

[LR Max]

Zack,

When I get home, I'll post some info on Axle Wrap. In the meantime, you can google and youtube axle wrap. Long story short, it primarily happens on leaf spring vehicles but I could see the same thing happening here.

As for the joints, they'll let you know well ahead of time when they are going out. However when they start going, listen to what they are telling you!

 

[ZG]

Thanks LR - I did check out the youtube of axle wrap, but I was thinking it's not possible due to the design of the rear D2 radius arm as it mounts on both front and back of the axle housing. It is unlike D1/RRC/Defender models that use trailing arms.

As you can see, it would have to rotate the radius arms with the axle, which are attached to the frame.

 

[I Leak Oil]

You won't get any more axle wrap with the panhard set up. The radius arms control that. It's easy to see how Max might bring it up though as in the picture there doesn't appear to be any sort upper arm, only a lower. The lower in this case pins the housing front and back instead of two arms, one on top and one under.

 

[LR Max]

If memory serves, the rear just has links, not radius arms. Do the rear links attach with one bolt or two bolts? Radius arms attach with two bolts (an over simplification but pretty much true).

There is a D1 that lives near my house. I'll go crawl under it when I get off work and see what it has but I am 99% sure the rear links aren't radius arms.

However I am often proven wrong...sometimes on a daily basis.

 

[I Leak Oil]

D1 is different Max. Photo Zack has a D2. The rear arm on the D2 is more like the front arm of the D1(I think, been a while)