rruff
Explorer
If your rears are fine, I'd make sure the bumpstops are bottoming out before the shock.
Reasonable Mods For Carrying Heavy Things
- Thread starter JSKepler
- Start date
TonyCatmandu
Member
As has been mentioned, custom leaf pack. I have fancy fox adjustible resi 2.5's all around. Like rruff, I deleted rear sway. While my shocks are very nice and I presume add to the overall control, I suspect the majority of my trucks ability to work great with a camper has more to do with my leafs which are specified to carry 3,000 lbs. Just a guess as I had no way to incrementally test the mods, but my guess is that 80% of my trucks on pavement improvement is due to the $1,200 leaf packs, not the $3,500 in shocks. I went Alcan although I would have prefered Deaver as they use more leafs and are probably "more progressive".
The "just slow down" mod is probably the cheapest and most effective mod but I built my rig to get me home after a weekend and allows me to go faster down washboard dirt roads than I should. That is where I presume the shocks and tires really contribute to overall improved handling and performance.
The "just slow down" mod is probably the cheapest and most effective mod but I built my rig to get me home after a weekend and allows me to go faster down washboard dirt roads than I should. That is where I presume the shocks and tires really contribute to overall improved handling and performance.
GeorgeHayduke
Active member
Lots of good suggestions in this thread already on tires, suspension etc. To add to that I'd suggest also looking at things you can remove or how you can shift weight forward to be lower and further forward. I've played the over GVWR game a lot with a ram 2500 and in my experience the driving dynamics can be changed pretty dramatically based on where the weight is.
On the truck, are you removing your tailgate when you install the camper? That would give you back ~75 pounds or so of payload. Can you remove rear seats from the cab that are going unused? Do you have giant steel bumpers, sliders, or skid plates that may not be necessary for the way you'd use a loaded truck camper rig? 5th wheel hitches or other things that you don't need to be carrying?
For the camper, can you carry water in jugs in the cab instead of tanks over the rear axle? Taking the camper jacks off after you get it loaded saves on both weight and clearance. Run electrical systems off a second battery in the engine compartment and reduce/eliminate batteries in the camper? Can you carry personal stuff in the cab instead of the camper? Switch to backpacking style cookware instead of the cast iron skillet. Any AC units on the roof that you can remove to lower the center of gravity?
On the truck, are you removing your tailgate when you install the camper? That would give you back ~75 pounds or so of payload. Can you remove rear seats from the cab that are going unused? Do you have giant steel bumpers, sliders, or skid plates that may not be necessary for the way you'd use a loaded truck camper rig? 5th wheel hitches or other things that you don't need to be carrying?
For the camper, can you carry water in jugs in the cab instead of tanks over the rear axle? Taking the camper jacks off after you get it loaded saves on both weight and clearance. Run electrical systems off a second battery in the engine compartment and reduce/eliminate batteries in the camper? Can you carry personal stuff in the cab instead of the camper? Switch to backpacking style cookware instead of the cast iron skillet. Any AC units on the roof that you can remove to lower the center of gravity?
rruff
Explorer
I should have my leaf upgrade done today. I'm not expecting much frankly, but I hope I'm wrong!
My $1100 shock upgrade was an amazing improvement, even on the stock unloaded truck. The only thing I gave up was a little compliance on small bumps. Handling... and performance on larger bumps were greatly improved. Secure, planted, no wallowing.
Ya, always good to know the limitations of your vehicle. These aren't sports cars or trophy trucks.
tacollie
Glamper
Leafs made the biggest improvement for comfort on our truck. Performance improvement came from shocks.
dstefan
Well-known member
Something to keep in mind re: weight. All those things we add to make our rigs more capable and to handle more weight all add to the weight we’re trying to buffer. Swapping out OEM stock parts for aftermarket beefier parts can double the weight of what you’ve removed and can be hundreds of pounds.
It’s also really hard to get accurate weights for the swap outs if you don’t do all the work yourself and weigh everything. I do plenty of stuff myself, but not suspension swaps and other more technical things.
I was amazed at how the truck mods added up in weight, and I went to great lengths to keep things minimal. I weighed my rig bone stock, then basically unmodified with the Ovlnd camper on so I know that weight, which is pretty light (362 lbs). I also weighed all my buildout materials for the camper (95 lbs), but given the supply chain issues and timing imposed for my truck suspension and other modifications I couldn’t tell how they added weight incrementally. AND it’s damn near impossible to find out how much OEM components weigh and sometimes the replacement mods too. Eg, never could find out how much the stock rear springs weighed but the Deavers I replaced them with were 95 lbs each side (not counting the shackles which are substantial too. I know that’s a lot more. Same for the front coilovers, UCAs, and rear shocks.
This might all seem like OCD measurbating, but there’s the long debated issue of how to view “sprung” vs “unsprung” weight’s effects on your rig. I have NO desire to rehash that can of worms but suffice to say that for instance the rotational weight of upgraded tires we add to handle the added camper, uh . . . I mean found treasure weight affects mpgs and acceleration but is a different stress on the system than an overloaded camper. Similarly suspension components. And do heavier duty diff gears and lockers add capacity to your axles?? Not the axle shaft itself but less likely to break a ring gear.
Not sure how this helps you, but something to keep in mind. There’s lots of hidden weights that creep in, even when it’s a necessary “evil”. It’s all a crap shoot up to a point. That’s why I continue to set my sights on staying under the axle WRs, and so far so good . . .
It’s also really hard to get accurate weights for the swap outs if you don’t do all the work yourself and weigh everything. I do plenty of stuff myself, but not suspension swaps and other more technical things.
I was amazed at how the truck mods added up in weight, and I went to great lengths to keep things minimal. I weighed my rig bone stock, then basically unmodified with the Ovlnd camper on so I know that weight, which is pretty light (362 lbs). I also weighed all my buildout materials for the camper (95 lbs), but given the supply chain issues and timing imposed for my truck suspension and other modifications I couldn’t tell how they added weight incrementally. AND it’s damn near impossible to find out how much OEM components weigh and sometimes the replacement mods too. Eg, never could find out how much the stock rear springs weighed but the Deavers I replaced them with were 95 lbs each side (not counting the shackles which are substantial too. I know that’s a lot more. Same for the front coilovers, UCAs, and rear shocks.
This might all seem like OCD measurbating, but there’s the long debated issue of how to view “sprung” vs “unsprung” weight’s effects on your rig. I have NO desire to rehash that can of worms but suffice to say that for instance the rotational weight of upgraded tires we add to handle the added camper, uh . . . I mean found treasure weight affects mpgs and acceleration but is a different stress on the system than an overloaded camper. Similarly suspension components. And do heavier duty diff gears and lockers add capacity to your axles?? Not the axle shaft itself but less likely to break a ring gear.
Not sure how this helps you, but something to keep in mind. There’s lots of hidden weights that creep in, even when it’s a necessary “evil”. It’s all a crap shoot up to a point. That’s why I continue to set my sights on staying under the axle WRs, and so far so good . . .
rruff
Explorer
The way I look at it, is that tire and suspension upgrades are necessary because they dramatically improve handling, safety, and performance. Yes, they will add a couple hundred pounds, but they are worth it. Tire weight isn't going to increase your axle load, but everything resting on the axle will. Obviously the highest load will be hard bottoming out, so mitigating that is a good idea.
dstefan
Well-known member
Couldn’t agree more!
Groverland
Active member
Measurbating? Lol
You're not kidding about rotational weight! I just swapped tires and only went up 3 pounds/tire. I immediately dropped over 2 mpg, but this is on a 4-cylinder Tacoma(underpowered) so maybe not as big a deal on larger rigs?
rruff
Explorer
^My tire weight more than doubled, and diameter went up 8% and mpg improved. Granted the stock Bridgestones were probably 
, but...
Some offroad tires are pretty stiff, and the hysteresis loss (rolling resistance) can be high. There is a big range with ATs and MTs, and it's hard to tell. Weight isn't a very good proxy... I think speed rating is better (higher is good) for the same load rating and size. I have Hankook ATMs, what are yours?
Rotational weight is a trivial factor. It's true that if all the weight was at the outer diameter, then the momentum effect from a dead stop would be 2x the effect of weight elsewhere on the vehicle. But it's a small weight % compared to the whole truck. On mine the added tire weight is ~2% of the total.
, but...Some offroad tires are pretty stiff, and the hysteresis loss (rolling resistance) can be high. There is a big range with ATs and MTs, and it's hard to tell. Weight isn't a very good proxy... I think speed rating is better (higher is good) for the same load rating and size. I have Hankook ATMs, what are yours?
Rotational weight is a trivial factor. It's true that if all the weight was at the outer diameter, then the momentum effect from a dead stop would be 2x the effect of weight elsewhere on the vehicle. But it's a small weight % compared to the whole truck. On mine the added tire weight is ~2% of the total.
JSKepler
New member
Suspensions seem like a black art. You can run all the calculations and simulations you want but in the end you have to build it and see how it performs to know how you need to build it. Prototyping is the most important and most expensive step of any design. It is why nothing works anymore; everyone wants to run simulations. I once found myself in the same position when I was getting into motorcycles. You can do all the research in the world but at some point you have to buy one and ride it. Only then can you know what you should have bought or, if you are lucky, what you need to do to make it work for you. It was always fun explaining that one to my wife for a $5,000 motorcycle I'm not sure how I'm going to do that for a $25,000+ camper!
Seems like the only real approach, after you've ruled out the obviously unworkable cases, is to pull the trigger, see how it performs, and make adjustments. Whether or not the adjustments involve selling and buying something else depend partly, but not entirely, on the research. Either way you will be making adjustments. I guess that is maybe the most important part of it when going into something like this jointly. Moderate expectations up front and see what you can live with.
I think I should pass on the $32K Northern Lite 8-11 (12 hours away) and give the $24K Lance 825 (1 hour away) a try. They are both 2018s, both bought new by current owner. Both in good shape but the Lance has always been stored inside and looks, frankly, brand new, NL has been stored outside in Colorado winters. Pick it up and drive it home. Only then start making decisions on air bags or rubber assist, sway bars, shocks, etc. I've been continuing to measurebate on both and the NL is definitely the better performer. But this winter looks like a bust so maybe just jump in and start using the darn thing. At some point one must begin the process of building experience and having experiences.
I started out with an '02 BMW R1150R because I'm a boxer engine fan. I went through a bunch of bikes and life changes and now have a '14 BMW R1200GS. It's about the perfect bike for me and where I live but it took five bikes and a transcontinental move to get there. Maybe I can do this in two campers because I probably don't have time (and I know I don't have money) for five and I don't want to move again.
Seems like the only real approach, after you've ruled out the obviously unworkable cases, is to pull the trigger, see how it performs, and make adjustments. Whether or not the adjustments involve selling and buying something else depend partly, but not entirely, on the research. Either way you will be making adjustments. I guess that is maybe the most important part of it when going into something like this jointly. Moderate expectations up front and see what you can live with.
I think I should pass on the $32K Northern Lite 8-11 (12 hours away) and give the $24K Lance 825 (1 hour away) a try. They are both 2018s, both bought new by current owner. Both in good shape but the Lance has always been stored inside and looks, frankly, brand new, NL has been stored outside in Colorado winters. Pick it up and drive it home. Only then start making decisions on air bags or rubber assist, sway bars, shocks, etc. I've been continuing to measurebate on both and the NL is definitely the better performer. But this winter looks like a bust so maybe just jump in and start using the darn thing. At some point one must begin the process of building experience and having experiences.
I started out with an '02 BMW R1150R because I'm a boxer engine fan. I went through a bunch of bikes and life changes and now have a '14 BMW R1200GS. It's about the perfect bike for me and where I live but it took five bikes and a transcontinental move to get there. Maybe I can do this in two campers because I probably don't have time (and I know I don't have money) for five and I don't want to move again.
JSKepler
New member
Building a pole barn this summer. Get a cover over it then work on the rest as I have time. 20 year plan. But, not getting any younger so don't want to keep waiting until the stars align. Good things don't come to those who wait. We just get old. Ask me how I know! And, this winter is starting to look like a bust. Of course, I said that in January 2023 and we wound up having a 100 year snow!
I'll look into renting. It isn't my first choice but it might be a way to skip a step of buy, sell, buy. But, if it isn't pretty close to what I'd actually buy I'm not sure it would help me, though it might help me decide if this old truck is going to do it. Also, the choices for short beds is quite limited. Still, if I can find one, I may do that.
When I had my TC on a 2007 Chevy 3500 I added Bilstein shocks and air bags. I was 11,150 pounds with a GVWR of 9,900. I upgraded to a 2005 Chevy dually. I added KYB Monomax shocks and airbags. I was 13,100 with a GVWR of 11,400. I took both rigs thousands of trouble free miles. I was NOT over on tire or axle weight. When my dually was loaded (not with the camper) to it's GVWR it wasn't even sitting on the overloads.
My main thought about covered storage is that a camper in almost new condition will last a lot longer and be a lot lower maintenance if stored under a cover or in doors. Sounds like OP is on the right track. Also great if you can plug it in when not in use and condition the interior with heat and dehumidifier.
If I were you and spending the money your talking about, I'd get a Northern Lite that has never been lived in and has been stored under cover. The ones with the double pain awning windows look like a worthwhile upgrade.
If I were you and spending the money your talking about, I'd get a Northern Lite that has never been lived in and has been stored under cover. The ones with the double pain awning windows look like a worthwhile upgrade.
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