Recovery Points for 2004 Disco with ARB Air Bag Compatible Bumper

[Reata Rover]

Long time watcher, new time to post. Anyone have any ideas of installing good solid reciovery points to my bumper without making the crush cans inoperable or affected in any way?

Thanks,

 

[Go4Lo]

Long time watcher, new time to post. Anyone have any ideas of installing good solid reciovery points to my bumper without making the crush cans inoperable or affected in any way?

Thanks,

have you thought about something like this?
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/

i'm thinking about getting a set for my ARB on my 2K Disco. if you scroll to the bottom of the page you will see them mounted on a Disco ARB.

 

[LC/LR4Life]

I'd fabricate some mounts for attachment to the frame that you can attach heavy duty Crosby Shackles to. Then there's no issues with the bumper at all.

You know me from the TR web site. I am 02D2 on there.

I'll look at our DII and see where something might be able to be attached and let you know.

 

[Brian McVickers]

have you thought about something like this?
https://www.expeditionexchange.com/smb/

i'm thinking about getting a set for my ARB on my 2K Disco. if you scroll to the bottom of the page you will see them mounted on a Disco ARB.

These are what I use on my 2001 DII with the ARB Air-Bag compatible winch bumper.

I have also spoken with ARB directly to verify that there is no concern with the Air-Bag sensors or the crash cans when pulling on the bumper with such recovery points.

Brian:rally_guys:

 

[Reata Rover]

All great advice, but I also have a concern with mounting directly to the bumper because of stories I have heard of the bumper rolling up when the Shackles are attached directly to the bumper. I was hoping and trying to think of a way to engineer something directly to the frame but through a penetration in the front of the ARB. In retorspect, I sometimes wish I had purchased the TJM....dont know if it is any better, but in any case did not want to mar the effectiveness of the crush cans/air bag operation.

BTW, this is a great forum/portal. I cant stay off of it. The Colonel (Wife) is always on my case about how much time I spend on here, but what the heck, I love it.

 

[greenmeanie]

JATE rings?

Not my cup of tea becuase I only have leafers but they are popular in the UK on the coilers. Of course, it is only one bolt but it has the chassis in double shear.

Other than that you could look at mounting a standard Class III hitch on a cross member behind the bumper and pointing down at an angle. It would be hidden behind the bumper until you put one of those reciever bars with the chackle on it. That would poke down enough for shackle access while giving a pull directly on the chassis while bypassing the bumper.

On the other hand, have you actually talked to someone who has had the failure you describe. A route cause analysis would be interesting to see if they use the correct mounting hardware or if it is the bumper design itself that was incompatible with the shackle plates. Also under what circumstances did the failure manifest itself? Answer these questions to yourself and you'll be a long way to figuring out your mount.

Cheers
Gregor

 

[Brian McVickers]

All great advice, but I also have a concern with mounting directly to the bumper because of stories I have heard of the bumper rolling up when the Shackles are attached directly to the bumper. I was hoping and trying to think of a way to engineer something directly to the frame but through a penetration in the front of the ARB. In retorspect, I sometimes wish I had purchased the TJM....dont know if it is any better, but in any case did not want to mar the effectiveness of the crush cans/air bag operation.

BTW, this is a great forum/portal. I cant stay off of it. The Colonel (Wife) is always on my case about how much time I spend on here, but what the heck, I love it.

If the engineers at ARB verify that there is nothing to worry about.....
You could call them and discuss the issue further with them to figure out the best solution for your intended use.

I have been pulled up a ledge on one of mine, although it was just a slight jerk with a strap but I have never heard of actual problems, only assumed rumors.

What do you mean by "roll up"?

 

[MuddyMudskipper]

Perhaps you are overthinking the recovery points in relation to the crush cans. The crush cans are slotted to allow for adjustment during install. When I had the ARB bumper I simply used the factory recovery points with D-ring shackes. I had used the bumper quite a few times for different recoveries and the crush cans were never affected. However, the adjustment of the bumper got tweaked on one occassion. I think that the rolling up of the bumper you are reading about might be inherent with the ARB design and is one of the common knocks folks have with the product, unfounded or not.

Although I never had to use the bumper in this manner, I did have the ARB Hi-Lift jack adapter just in case. When I first got the adapter I jacked my truck up from the recovery points on each side to see what would happen, and again the crush cans were not affected.

When I finally sold the ARB I installed it on the guy's truck who bought it from me and it went on with no problems. We inspected the crush cans and they were in great shape despite the bumper enduring several decent shunts on obstacles and the occasional recovery. As a matter of fact, we were able to get the bumper to line up on his truck way better than it ever did on mine.

Although the the bumper for the 2004 does not have the recovery point provision built in, I think that Go4Lo and mcvickoffroad have the right idea for the recovery points. I would also think that the shackle bracket and backing plate EE sells would be better since the recovery points are closer to the center line of the bumper (and lined up better with the frame) versus the bottom which would want to roll the bumper up (which happened once, down).

 

[Go4Lo]

this is some great info. one other thing you can do to the crush can's on the arb bumpers in spot weld or stitch weld the back of the crush can's to the frame horns to prevent them twisting. the crush can's on my ARB are welded about 1" weld on the back portion of the crush can's to prevent twisting.

it should be enough to prevent twisting but not so much that you can easily grind the welds off to remove the bumper. i'll try to post a pic later today.

 

[Go4Lo]

on further note, you will read on many other boards "do not get the arb, or it will bend or twist etc.." i personally feel that if the proper techniques are used in recovery either with a winch or snatch strap there will be no issues. i feel arb has more than adequate engineering that went into designing their bumpers "if used correctly."

 

[R_Lefebvre]

I don't know if you've seen any of my controversial threads at Dweeb... if not you should. What's become apparent in following my research, is that the problem with the ARB is not the crush cans bending, but rather the crush cans slipping on their mountings due to the inadequate 2 bolt mounting. That is the problem that needs to be solved.

The RTE bumper uses a 3rd bolt which passed up through a newly drilled hole in the frame.

You do need to solve the problem not just for the use of recovery points, but because the bumper could "tip" during a winching operation for the same reasons.

 

[Brian McVickers]

??? - The ARB on my 2001 is mounted with two very long vertical bolts, one on each side, to compliment the two horizontal bolts. Granted, the bumper was installed by the previous owner so I'm not sure it it is standard.

Brian

I don't know if you've seen any of my controversial threads at Dweeb... if not you should. What's become apparent in following my research, is that the problem with the ARB is not the crush cans bending, but rather the crush cans slipping on their mountings due to the inadequate 2 bolt mounting. That is the problem that needs to be solved.

The RTE bumper uses a 3rd bolt which passed up through a newly drilled hole in the frame.

You do need to solve the problem not just for the use of recovery points, but because the bumper could "tip" during a winching operation for the same reasons.

 

[Go4Lo]

I don't know if you've seen any of my controversial threads at Dweeb... if not you should. What's become apparent in following my research, is that the problem with the ARB is not the crush cans bending, but rather the crush cans slipping on their mountings due to the inadequate 2 bolt mounting. That is the problem that needs to be solved.

The RTE bumper uses a 3rd bolt which passed up through a newly drilled hole in the frame.

You do need to solve the problem not just for the use of recovery points, but because the bumper could "tip" during a winching operation for the same reasons.

if you run a weld bead along the backside of the crush can it acts as a 3rd bolt thus keeping it from twisting.

 

[Reata Rover]

Thank you, Thank You, Thank You!! You guys are awesome!

I really appreciate all of your great advice and the photos really say 1,000 words. Thanks so much!

 

[R_Lefebvre]

f you run a weld bead along the backside of the crush can it acts as a 3rd bolt thus keeping it from twisting.

That does seem like by far the easiest way to go. It makes the whole thing slightly more permanent, but oh well.

The engineer in me is afraid of creating new Heat Affected Zones on the frame, but the reality is they probably didn't heat treat the whole frame after welding it up and so it's already full of HAZ's anyway.

??? - The ARB on my 2001 is mounted with two very long vertical bolts, one on each side, to compliment the two horizontal bolts. Granted, the bumper was installed by the previous owner so I'm not sure it it is standard.

I don't believe that is standard. Could you get a pic please? I'd love to see what they did.