Recovery thoughts, ideas, advice

[Metcalf]

It looks to me like it wasn't even as bad as some. It looks like that at least attempted by cutting a relief in the bumper and had two welds. I see so many DIY and fab shops just weld a clevis on the face with a single filet pass around the edge. This one was a base metal (or at least HAZ) failure so it just needed reinforcement (to be "engineered").

The way my rear recovery points are built they are the bumper mount itself extended and passed through the face. They rely on the mounting bolts and frame not to fail but the welds and bumper skin only serve to give lateral support.

I think ARB is technically rating that at 9,500 lbs straight pull. The 17,500 lbs dynamic thing would probably fall into marginal region because strictly speaking a 4.75t shackle is being misused in that case, too. But they are proof tested to 2xWLL and it's not an overhead lift so...

I'd give that a cosmetic structural rating generally, and it relies completely on the quality of the welds. It is basically a place to hang the shackles.
Welding the 3/4" thick material to what looks like maybe 1/8" material with no real backing structure is just asking for trouble.
I would guess a lot of those angle changes in the bumper face are welded and dressed down seams also.

Passing the load back and into the frame structure is a MUCH better idea in general.

The bumper that failed does look like it was seeing a 90 degree side load also. I always wonder what makes people pick having the design orientated one way or another. It is also a BAD idea to be cross loading the shackle at an angle like that. The added leverage length of the shackle likely didn't help anything either.

I agree on the ARB ratings. They seem to take a bit more of an engineering design approach to their systems. It would be interesting to see HOW they actually tested the units. In my opinion, if you are pulling even 9500lbs on something, it is time to use more shovel or re-evaluate what is going on. Maybe even think about what direction the vehicle is being recovered in if possible.

 

[DaveInDenver]

I'd give that a cosmetic structural rating generally, and it relies completely on the quality of the welds. It is basically a place to hang the shackles.
Welding the 3/4" thick material to what looks like maybe 1/8" material with no real backing structure is just asking for trouble.
I would guess a lot of those angle changes in the bumper face are welded and dressed down seams also.

Passing the load back and into the frame structure is a MUCH better idea in general.

The bumper that failed does look like it was seeing a 90 degree side load also. I always wonder what makes people pick having the design orientated one way or another. It is also a BAD idea to be cross loading the shackle at an angle like that. The added leverage length of the shackle likely didn't help anything either.

I agree on the ARB ratings. They seem to take a bit more of an engineering design approach to their systems. It would be interesting to see HOW they actually tested the units. In my opinion, if you are pulling even 9500lbs on something, it is time to use more shovel or re-evaluate what is going on. Maybe even think about what direction the vehicle is being recovered in if possible.

Agreed on all points.

I figured since any manufacturer probably can supply models for their chassis its mostly FEA analysis but in their marketing spiel ARB does say "Dozens of designs are explored, with the more promising models built into prototypes and tested on the actual vehicle chassis using ARB’s various load and destructive testing equipment."

Overlanding & Offroad Recovery Gear | ARB 4x4 USA

Shop here for a wide variety of offroad recovery gear & equipment that pulls through when you need it most while overlanding or crawling a trail.

arbusa.com

 

[Metcalf]

Agreed on all points.

I figured since any manufacturer probably can supply models for their chassis its mostly FEA analysis but in their marketing spiel ARB does say "Dozens of designs are explored, with the more promising models built into prototypes and tested on the actual vehicle chassis using ARB’s various load and destructive testing equipment."

Overlanding & Offroad Recovery Gear | ARB 4x4 USA

Shop here for a wide variety of offroad recovery gear & equipment that pulls through when you need it most while overlanding or crawling a trail.

arbusa.com

While I don't agree 100% with their testing methodology, I would love to see more testing/data like this from manufacturers.


The sad part, in the USA at least, we don't see a lot of this style of testing......AND people really aren't willing to pay the premium price for parts produced that way.

 

[luthj]

To be fair some 80% of aftermarket bumper installations are purely for aesthetics, and maybe animal protection. Though I guess some are to provide a place to mount a winch... which is for aesthetics...

 

[Metcalf]

To be fair some 80% of aftermarket bumper installations are purely for aesthetics, and maybe animal protection. Though I guess some are to provide a place to mount a winch... which is for aesthetics...

I agree with that. A lot of people have stuff bolted on their vehicle just for the 'look' these days. That is great for all the companies selling stuff, but it is scary to think that most of that equipment will fail when they need it most.

Case in point....

I was tail-gunning last year on the big saturday run up Pritchett Canyon at EJS helping a friend. Ended up having a JKUR that broke a rear driveshaft on Chewy Hill that left him with fwd only after the rear driveshaft was pulled. I drove out the bottom with him to make sure he made it, good thing too. He got to the first little 'backwards' obstacle and needed his winch. We got him rigged up, it only would have been a few thousand pound pull. As soon as the line got tight, pop, winch stopped working. Come to find out that his winch ( I kid you not ) was wired in with a 50 amp fuse and what looked like 8 gauge wire. It would spool line in and out....and that is all he had done so far. Needless to say, I ended up having to strap him about 30 different times to get him back out the bottom of the trail. Without someone helping he pretty much had zero hope of self recovery. It isn't the end of the world or anything, but what a mess.

 

[DaveInDenver]

LOL, I replaced both bumpers for aesthetics - they got damaged on the trail (plus a bonus taillight when the rear bumper wing bent up) and looked like crap.

 

[old .45]

I don't do "Good Samaritan recovery" in the winter as most are in a place where the person involved can call for a professional tow. Too much of a chance a good idea could go bad..lawsuits etc because you are not insured for such work...personal/vehicular damage.... on and on. Nevermind the lack of proper recovery points on most modern vehicles, and yeah let the driver of the vehicle hook up the tow strap, right... I can think of a whole host of problems involved with that also. just my .02 worth.

 

[shade]

While I don't agree 100% with their testing methodology, I would love to see more testing/data like this from manufacturers.


The sad part, in the USA at least, we don't see a lot of this style of testing......AND people really aren't willing to pay the premium price for parts produced that way.

Factor 55 has a series of test videos.

Factor 55

Factor 55 | Closed System Winching™ | USA Made Vehicle Recovery Products | www.factor55.com

www.youtube.com

 

[Metcalf]

Factor 55 has a series of test videos.

Factor 55

Factor 55 | Closed System Winching™ | USA Made Vehicle Recovery Products | www.factor55.com

www.youtube.com

yup, they do some neat stuff. It's just a shame that it is all for 'inbetween' stuff that hooks to basically unrated parts on both sides.....

 

[DaveInDenver]

The sad part, in the USA at least, we don't see a lot of this style of testing......AND people really aren't willing to pay the premium price for parts produced that way.

Even if the engineering field was truly viewed as a profession like medicine, law, accounting and thus had understood value added there wouldn't be any market for it when the consumption churn dictates cheap, throw away junk so management meets their quarterly goals.

 

[shade]

Even if the engineering field was truly viewed as a profession like medicine, law, accounting and thus had understood value added there wouldn't be any market for it when the consumption churn dictates cheap, throw away junk so management meets their quarterly goals.

I get your point. I never confuse Harbor Freight with Milwaukee, even if that distinction is lost on more and more people.

Maybe it comes from working on projects with a heavy focus on engineering, or from a lifelong appreciation of the field, but I view engineers - especially seasoned ones - on par with those professionals. History is filled with tragic examples of the opposite view, though. Faster and cheaper is great until the walkway falls, the dam breaks, or the plane cracks up.

 

[shade]

Made in China. Its all the same yellow plastic.

No, that's DeWalt.

 

[DaveInDenver]

No, that's DeWalt.

Yeah, Milwaukee is the cheap Chinese red plastic.

 

[NatersXJ6]

Personally, I’m happy for those that do Good Samaritan recovery, as I get at least one pull for every 3 or 4 that I give. Sometimes on a trail (expected that one assists) sometimes in the snow (I have a tendency to park off the road and discover the snow to be much deeper than expected).

I remember one time right after I got my Rubicon I parked it entirely off the road in a snow bank, just to watch it slowly settle into the void. I was 16” from pavement, and it was going to take hours of digging to get there. My kids were terrified, forests look much bigger, darker, and colder when you know you can’t leave. I put on a happy face, attached the tow strap, coiled it on the hood, and went sledding with the kids. About an hour later, I heard a horn beep, and slogged over to the Jeep where a guy was hooking the other end of my strap to his truck out on the road. 45 seconds and I was out. I only ever said 2 words and a wave. Thanks again dude!

On the other side, coming out of LA one stormy New Years Eve, I found a suburban on a backroad that looked like he was mildly stuck. Stopping to help I realized that he had spun out and crashed over a curb/dike into a deep ditch, peeling tires off in the process. Most on this forum would say he was unprepared for snow in every way. The guy was on the verge of tears, big storm, angry wife, pissed at himself, car full of kids and pets... he said he was taking his kids to the snow for the first time ever.

I wasn’t able to get his tire re-seated, but I did pull him to a safe place off the road on a driveway, and help his kids get hauled to their eventual hotel. The kids were having the time of their lives, loving every minute, and once he realized that, it was all part of the adventure. I think he appreciated the help, and that made everything fine-ish.

Anyway, the rambling point is that Samaritans are good for society, we shouldn’t be afraid to help, within our limits of equipment and knowledge.

 

[billiebob]

I am the jerk when it comes to this. Rarely do I head out in bad weather anyway. Stuck vehicles on the side of the road of are because of carelessness leading people to being stranded and I don't want to deal with idiots. I will help them get help, but that is it. Rarely will I hook to somebody unless they are properly equipped, part of my group, friends or family. My Jeep is not that heavy and not the best recovery vehicle anyway. I am not recovering people who are were they shouldn't be or areas where it could cause other issues, such as damage or blocking traffic.

I pay extra insurance for road side assistance and towing so I don't have to bother other people with my problems.

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