Redarc vs Ctek
- Thread starter GSP
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dwh
Tail-End Charlie
That's simplistic and based on an assumption that battery resistance remains unchanged over the entire charge cycle...which it doesn't. Resistance goes up when the battery is low on charge, and goes up again as it approaches full. So while a battery might accept the full 30a of charge current that a charger current limited to 30a could potentially produce - for part (the middle) of the charge cycle - it will accept less than that though a large part of the charge cycle.
Plus lead-acid batteries are not 100% efficient. Standard rule of thumb for estimating is 80% - i.e., you have to supply 120ah of charge to replace the 100ah you took out.
And then there is surface charge and absorption to factor in as well.
(And no, multiple chargers don't confuse each other.)
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Not relevant to the OP, who has AGM.
It isn't needed anyway except for alternator charging where an ACR wouldn't be suitable. For solar or shore power charging any two-stage charger (no absorb stage) that bulks to 14.4v and has a low float voltage will work fine.
Yea but...2 grand!? (Aus)
Meh. Screw that. For a modern American truck with a lead-acid house battery, A decent MPPT solar controller, decent ACR, and decent shore charger would do the job just as well and cost 2/3 less.
TonyLC
Member
I don't know what an 'American truck' has to do with it.
Find me another unit that fills all these critera for under $1400 USD:
High Quality
All in one
DC to DC
AC to DC
MMPT
Dual isolator
High Quality monitor
Specific charge profiles per battery type
Sure, you can piece togther a bunch of different items and perhaps you don't need all of these features. However, you won't piece together a multi-component kit that is the Manager30's quality for under $1400. The Manager30 is the one-stop-shop for everything you'll need aside from an Inverter.
Ultimately, it's your dollar signs. Buy what you prefer.
I will be getting the Manager30.
Find me another unit that fills all these critera for under $1400 USD:
High Quality
All in one
DC to DC
AC to DC
MMPT
Dual isolator
High Quality monitor
Specific charge profiles per battery type
Sure, you can piece togther a bunch of different items and perhaps you don't need all of these features. However, you won't piece together a multi-component kit that is the Manager30's quality for under $1400. The Manager30 is the one-stop-shop for everything you'll need aside from an Inverter.
Ultimately, it's your dollar signs. Buy what you prefer.
I will be getting the Manager30.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
It's what the OP has. Older Toyotas apparently had voltage regulators set at,13.9v. But the OP has a "modern American truck" so it'll have a computer controlled regulator that will do the job just fine.
Victron, Blue Sea, Iota.
Single point of failure. I prefer redundancy.
Not needed with a "modern American truck", unless running lithium.
Any charger. Or better yet, inverter/charger.
Ant decent solar controller. But the benefit of MPPT isn't much on solar less than 200w.
Any ACR or dumb solenoid. Sounds like marketing BS to me...what exactly does "dual isolator" do?
Lots of those on the market.
That's more marketing. There is almost no difference in charge profiles except gel has a lower voltage limit and lithium doesn't like absorb stage.
That's a load of bull. As already mentioned - Victron, Blue Sea and Iota - are every bit as high quality. And I can name a dozen others. You could assemble the best components and still come in well under a grand.
More power to ya. (See what I did there?) But there are other ways.
Hillbilly Heaven
Explorer
I have to agee with DWH on this one.
Most cost effective way to handle vehicle to camper charging with an AGM battery in the camper is with an ACR like from Blue Sea. Add some type of solar charger type depending on solar wattage. Spend the money on a good inverter/charger.
Granted if you ever went lithium you would have to swap the ACR for a B2B charger. Be wise in picking solar charger and inverter/charger for lithium use later down the road.
Most cost effective way to handle vehicle to camper charging with an AGM battery in the camper is with an ACR like from Blue Sea. Add some type of solar charger type depending on solar wattage. Spend the money on a good inverter/charger.
Granted if you ever went lithium you would have to swap the ACR for a B2B charger. Be wise in picking solar charger and inverter/charger for lithium use later down the road.
DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
Please identify the misinformation.
For the record:
-- I use and like REDARC products; in fact, I have two in my truck. (Mostly because of 24v to 12v conversion.) I am a total RECARC phanboi and they offer GREAT support!
-- The BIG issue with REDARC DC-DC chargers is the low output. (Also an issue with CTEK; Sterling offers larger ones.) The Manager 30 is a neat product, but its output is even lower than my BCDC 1240. Less of an issue if you use lithium, more of an issue with lead acid. Ironically, the value of a DC-DC charger with lithium may be to spare the alternator.
-- A relay based system is the least expensive way to get high charging current if your voltage is high enough, as it tends to be on most modern trucks. I have two years of real world experience to back this up. N.B. REDARC will happily sell you intelligent relays as well as DC-DC chargers.
See my first post in this thread. Recovering a consistent 100+Ah takes a bit of work. It can be done, but you have to pay attention to the details.
dwh and I don't always agree on details, but methinks he is spot on here.
Colin Hughes
Explorer
Not wanting to hijack this thread but I too am looking at either the Redarc BCDC1225D or the C-Tek D250SA to charge a second battery, a marine deep cell, that will be used pretty much exclusively for powering an ARB fridge and charging camera batteries. I have the battery already and in my former Land Rover's, I just used a Sure Power 1314 isolator unit. Now the 2015 Jeep Cherokee I have has a smart alt. So, there is a wire that needs to feed into the ignition. Could I use a 12V power plug as a source to feed into the ignition? I believe my 12v in the rear of the Jeep can either be live all the time or live when ignition is turned on. Any advise is appreciated as this has me baffled as the best place to tie this in. I have 50w Renolgy solar panel that will be used as well. Thanks!
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Doing a search shows that the Sure Power 1314 had a factory recall. Just FYI.
I found a manual for a model 1315.
It's an ACR (automatic connection relay).
According to the manual, a 1315 is dual sensing, whereas a 1314 is single sensing. That means that a 1315 will activate and tie the batteries if it sees an elevated voltage on either side, but the 1314 only looks on one side (so make sure that side is connected to the engine battery).
Dual sensing is useful if you have solar or shore power on the aux battery, but also want the solenoid to automatically tie in the engine battery to keep it topped up from the solar or shore power.
Single sensing only checks one side for elevated voltage, so it ties in the aux battery when the engine is running.
Single sensing is not a deal breaker. Works fine and you don't really need dual sensing unless you drain your engine battery frequently.
The ACR engages (ties the batteries) if it sees 13.2v and disengages if the voltage drops to 12.8v. That's fine (unless your aux battery is lithium).
It's totally automatic and only needs battery connections and a ground.
It has a couple of optional connections as well. One is for an indicator light, the other is for "auxilliary start" or "start boost".
That aux start connects TO THE START CONNECTION ON THE IGNITION SWITCH. No where else.
What it does is forcibly tie the batteries together when the starter runs to give the engine battery a boost from the aux battery.
You so totally DO NOT need that. If I had that unit, I would not hook up that aux start wire at all.
I found a manual for a model 1315.
It's an ACR (automatic connection relay).
According to the manual, a 1315 is dual sensing, whereas a 1314 is single sensing. That means that a 1315 will activate and tie the batteries if it sees an elevated voltage on either side, but the 1314 only looks on one side (so make sure that side is connected to the engine battery).
Dual sensing is useful if you have solar or shore power on the aux battery, but also want the solenoid to automatically tie in the engine battery to keep it topped up from the solar or shore power.
Single sensing only checks one side for elevated voltage, so it ties in the aux battery when the engine is running.
Single sensing is not a deal breaker. Works fine and you don't really need dual sensing unless you drain your engine battery frequently.
The ACR engages (ties the batteries) if it sees 13.2v and disengages if the voltage drops to 12.8v. That's fine (unless your aux battery is lithium).
It's totally automatic and only needs battery connections and a ground.
It has a couple of optional connections as well. One is for an indicator light, the other is for "auxilliary start" or "start boost".
That aux start connects TO THE START CONNECTION ON THE IGNITION SWITCH. No where else.
What it does is forcibly tie the batteries together when the starter runs to give the engine battery a boost from the aux battery.
You so totally DO NOT need that. If I had that unit, I would not hook up that aux start wire at all.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Now having said that, I probably would use that wire, but only to force tie the batteries for a self-jump or when winching. In other words, only when needed.
In that case, I would connect the wire to a switch and feed the switch off any circuit that is hot with the key on RUN (but not START or ACC).
In that case, I would connect the wire to a switch and feed the switch off any circuit that is hot with the key on RUN (but not START or ACC).
Colin Hughes
Explorer
Yes, I was aware of the recall, thanks, mine fell outside the serial #'s recalled. That said, I am looking at moving to the Redarc BCDC1225D or the C-Tek D250SA on the Jeep (all in one with solar). If I understand what you are saying, I really don't need to add the wire to the ignition and could even use the Surepower 1314? I had a seperate solar setup previously on the Rovers combined with the Surepower. I don't need a start boost. However, I've been told if the wire isn't added to the ignition circuit, the second battery will not charge properly due to alt voltage fluctuations. I was hoping if it could be taken off the 12v plug in the rear cargo area it would make life easy. But then again, if you're taking power from there, isn't it like taking it direct from the battery? I guess I am bit confused as to exactly what this wire controls on the units.
DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
You are mixing and matching a bit. Reading this may help: https://cookfb.files.wordpress.com/2016/09/dual-battery-slides-2016.pdf
-- The Superpower appears to be an intelligent relay. If dwh is correct, and he usually is, the wire you are worrying about is simply to allow you to force close the relay. The Superpower is nothing more than a switch that connects or disconnects the two batteries. It does not affect the voltage or the amperage of the charge source. If your vehicle's alternator does not put out the proper voltages to charge your battery, then the Superpower will NOT fix this.
-- The REDARC and CTEK battery to battery chargers do not need any form of relay as they accomplish the connect/disconnect function internally.
Three comments:
-- If you use the REDARC, get the 40A model as opposed to the 20A model.
-- If you get the CTEK, add the SmartPass for greater amperage.
-- The integrated solar is a nice feature, but remember, it does NOT increase your charger output, it merely reduces the load on your alternator. If you want to increase your charge rate you will need a separate solar controller.
-- The Superpower appears to be an intelligent relay. If dwh is correct, and he usually is, the wire you are worrying about is simply to allow you to force close the relay. The Superpower is nothing more than a switch that connects or disconnects the two batteries. It does not affect the voltage or the amperage of the charge source. If your vehicle's alternator does not put out the proper voltages to charge your battery, then the Superpower will NOT fix this.
-- The REDARC and CTEK battery to battery chargers do not need any form of relay as they accomplish the connect/disconnect function internally.
Three comments:
-- If you use the REDARC, get the 40A model as opposed to the 20A model.
-- If you get the CTEK, add the SmartPass for greater amperage.
-- The integrated solar is a nice feature, but remember, it does NOT increase your charger output, it merely reduces the load on your alternator. If you want to increase your charge rate you will need a separate solar controller.
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
Not true.
When the voltage rises to 13.2v the ACR will tie the batteries. It will not untie them until the voltage drops to 12.8v. So as long as your voltage regulator keeps the voltage above 12.8v with the engine running, and they all do, the battery will charge.
Voltage does fluctuate. Most vehicle voltage regulators maintain voltage not as a precise setpoint, but within a range. For example my old Ford camper van holds 13.5v at idle, and 14.5v at any RPM above idle.
But that doesn't matter. The fully charged resting voltage of the battery will be between 12.7v-13.1v (depending on who made it). As long as the voltage remains above 12.8v the ACR solenoid will remain engaged and the battery will charge.
That aux start (or force tie) wire can't change any of that no matter if you hook it to start, don't hook it up at all or hook it to a switch to make it a manually activated force tie.
The unit is a dumb solenoid (a.k.a. relay). In high-voltage electrical it would commonly be called a contactor. There is a 12v electromagnet that draws less than an amp which pulls together a set of contacts which ties the big battery posts together.
To make the dumb solenoid into an ACR, they have added a small computer brain which reads voltage and automatically activates/deactivates the power to the electromagnet based on the voltage it reads.
The aux start wire is just a bypass. It feeds 12v to the electromagnet directly - bypassing the computer - to forcibly tie the batteries regardless of whatever the voltage is.
The high-zoot 500a ACR from Blue Sea has a 3-position switch - automatic (let the computer handle it), force tie, force untie (never tie).
dwh
Tail-End Charlie
There are several situations where you might choose to force tie or force untie.
For example, winching. When the winch is under load it will pull down the voltage, probably enough to make the ACR untie. Then when the winch stops, the voltage comes up and the ACR ties again.
Which might be fine, but you might not want that. You might want to force tie so the aux battery helps feed the winch. Or, you might want to force untie because you don't want your aux battery involved when winching.
The same could be said for running the bow/stern thrusters on a Ranger Tug. Because they don't know what you are going to decide based on your situation, Blue Sea just gives you all the options.
Sure Power apparently saw a sisuation where someone would want to use the aux battery purely as a standby to aid in starting. Perhaps they were looking at police or ambulance use. So they decided that the force tie wire should go to the start position on the ignition switch...
But you don't have to do that. You could leave it unhooked entirely or rig it as a manual force tie.
For example, winching. When the winch is under load it will pull down the voltage, probably enough to make the ACR untie. Then when the winch stops, the voltage comes up and the ACR ties again.
Which might be fine, but you might not want that. You might want to force tie so the aux battery helps feed the winch. Or, you might want to force untie because you don't want your aux battery involved when winching.
The same could be said for running the bow/stern thrusters on a Ranger Tug. Because they don't know what you are going to decide based on your situation, Blue Sea just gives you all the options.
Sure Power apparently saw a sisuation where someone would want to use the aux battery purely as a standby to aid in starting. Perhaps they were looking at police or ambulance use. So they decided that the force tie wire should go to the start position on the ignition switch...
But you don't have to do that. You could leave it unhooked entirely or rig it as a manual force tie.