Retired Old Lady Seeks Exploring Truck
- Thread starter whiskeycutter
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4671 Hybrid
Adventurer
You're closer to the weight than I am, I added the weight of the horses but forgot to add the weight of the trailer + gear...duh. After recalc'ing, I came up with Camper ~ 1500, Horse Trailer w/dressing room ~ 3500, 2 Horses w/gear ~ 2800, misc ~1000 for a total of 8800 lbs. Figure another 1000 lbs of "just in case I want to bring it" and you're at 10K lbs.
With those revised numbers I agree with you, a 5.7 wouldn't be up to the task of pulling that load repeatedly through serious mountains. If we were closer to the 6-7k lb number I'd say it was but at 10K lbs, you're looking at a long slow trip.
At 10K lbs, I'm completely reversing course and going from the 5.7 recommendation to saying that MDT's should be part of the discussion, especially if you think you might move to a 3 horse trailer which'll add another 3000 lbs of trailer weight + another 1400 lbs of horse/gear weight. While the one tons can do it, and many folks tow quite a bit more than that, the Freightliner M2 and associated models will do it much easier, especially when you're trying to safely stop that 10K or 15K lb payload. I agree that the Peterbilt would be too much but at 14K+ lbs, the MDT would be a nice option. It wouldn't be needed, but it would be nice not to ever worry about being overloaded.
Turning radius on the M2 is close to or better than most of the 1 tons, fuel mileage isn't too far off (sometimes better when running heavy), and the cavernous hood area makes working on them much easier than on a pickup. Finding a 4x4 model will be tougher but if you're sticking to forest service roads and mild off-road, a locking differential will get you through most of what you're looking at and you could always run a winch for backup.
If you're curious about MDT's, Escapees is a great site with a dedicated MDT forum. The members over there can give you the straight scoop and also dispel the popular myths about that class of truck.
So, if you're under 7,500 lb of total payload (camper + trailer), I'd recommend the 5.7 in a capable chassis. It's cheap, easy to work on, and can be serviced anywhere.
From 7,500 to 14,000 lb, a 1 ton diesel from the Big 3 will do. They're a bit more expensive but the extra power and heavy chassis are worth it. Parts costs more and they aren't as easy to work on as the 5.7L, but this is what they're designed to do. Over 14,000 lbs, I'd consider a MDT for the margin of safety and peace of mind. They're easier to work on than the pickups, parts are comparably priced, and through all but the roughest mountain passes, you can leave the cruise on and go right through. It should also last longer than the pickups since the engine/tranny/rear end aren't working as hard.
With a $35K budget though, you can get pretty much whatever you want and still have money left over if you shop around. Since it doesn't look like you're going to top 14K lbs, I'm guessing a 1 ton diesel is in your future.
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4671 Hybrid
Adventurer
Here's a thread worth checking out, lots of examples of folks carrying a camper and towing a trailer. You'll see some that are within capacity, some that aren't, but overall, more info never hurts.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=970990
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=970990
I say test drive a Dodge Ram! We recently got a Ram 1500 4x4 with the Hemi after selling the 3500 Cummins. The ride is awesome, has plenty of power, tows up to 10.500 lbs and get's good fuel mileage (18 mpg average mixed highway and city driving) for the power the engine has. We sold the diesel because of expensive repairs and tires didn't last - that and we don't have use for it's capacities anymore. Dodge also always has great incentives, we got $13000 off msrp. If you decide to look at a ram, check out the Ram Outdoorsman which comes with AT Tires and limited slip.
No half ton has any business pulling the loads she is talking about (regardless of brand). She is talking slide in camper and a horse trailer IN THE MOUNTAINS. You may not realize it, but that would quickly wear out and trash a 1/2 ton. They are cars with more ground clearance (sorry I had to say that).
Nuf said on that.
As for tires, that brings up one point, many times THE weak link is/are the tires on a truck. Springs axles and drive line have a fairly good design factor (1.5-2 X's rating), so the real issue becomes tires. If you found a REALLY clean F-250 OR single wheel F-350 (or like truck in Dodge, or Chevy,...huhmmm), you can get aftermarket Rickson brand wheels to run 19.5 which solve a TON of issues with 16" Light Truck tires (LT's). The service life, SAFETY factor, less heat build up is HUGE when you go to the 19.5. Yes, they are pricey but are full steel cased (Goodyear G series and Michelin have 16" steel cased tires are available) and like tractor trailer tires DONT sway near as much. Additionally, they last 2-3 times longer than LT tires. Many service trucks driving daily fully loaded run these type tires, FOR a reason. I will be putting a set of Rickson's on my 02 F-350 dually soon. They are $260
per rim in steel (my choice) or not much more for aluminum. We have a saying 'round these parts "chrome dont get you home". I am going with steel for several reasons, first easy care (paint as needed), durability when I put "quickie" chains thru the budd hole if I get stuck or on ice/snow/mud. I carry full tire chains but they take 30-45 minutes to put on, quickie chains take 5 minutes. Heather at Rickson is a REALLY knowlegeable gal and can surely point you in the right direction should you decide to go that way.
Another thing I ALWAYS do, talk to your local SERIOUS auto parts store, NAPA or the like. Ask the counter guys about various brands, models, and associated issues. I wont bring up brands to start a persing contest here, but certain trucks, brands and models are having to replace stuff that should never, or infrequently need replaced. Every manufacture has issues, the key is, which ones have lesser issues and issues that are not "show stoppers" while out in the middle of no where.
Folks if you dont really haul, then you should not be recommending trucks or anything associated with the real world of serious pulling, trucking, day after day, month after month. We're not talking about running to the grocery store daily and twice a year pulling your, ______, boat, RV, whatever.
I think I will shut up now before I get in trouble.
Jronwood
Nuf said on that.
As for tires, that brings up one point, many times THE weak link is/are the tires on a truck. Springs axles and drive line have a fairly good design factor (1.5-2 X's rating), so the real issue becomes tires. If you found a REALLY clean F-250 OR single wheel F-350 (or like truck in Dodge, or Chevy,...huhmmm), you can get aftermarket Rickson brand wheels to run 19.5 which solve a TON of issues with 16" Light Truck tires (LT's). The service life, SAFETY factor, less heat build up is HUGE when you go to the 19.5. Yes, they are pricey but are full steel cased (Goodyear G series and Michelin have 16" steel cased tires are available) and like tractor trailer tires DONT sway near as much. Additionally, they last 2-3 times longer than LT tires. Many service trucks driving daily fully loaded run these type tires, FOR a reason. I will be putting a set of Rickson's on my 02 F-350 dually soon. They are $260
per rim in steel (my choice) or not much more for aluminum. We have a saying 'round these parts "chrome dont get you home". I am going with steel for several reasons, first easy care (paint as needed), durability when I put "quickie" chains thru the budd hole if I get stuck or on ice/snow/mud. I carry full tire chains but they take 30-45 minutes to put on, quickie chains take 5 minutes. Heather at Rickson is a REALLY knowlegeable gal and can surely point you in the right direction should you decide to go that way.
Another thing I ALWAYS do, talk to your local SERIOUS auto parts store, NAPA or the like. Ask the counter guys about various brands, models, and associated issues. I wont bring up brands to start a persing contest here, but certain trucks, brands and models are having to replace stuff that should never, or infrequently need replaced. Every manufacture has issues, the key is, which ones have lesser issues and issues that are not "show stoppers" while out in the middle of no where.
Folks if you dont really haul, then you should not be recommending trucks or anything associated with the real world of serious pulling, trucking, day after day, month after month. We're not talking about running to the grocery store daily and twice a year pulling your, ______, boat, RV, whatever.
I think I will shut up now before I get in trouble.
Jronwood
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Rovertrader
Supporting Sponsor
I had the Ricksons on my last dually, and yes, they are the real deal. However, in regards to this thread, I believe a good quality E rated tire will get the job done safely, as they have the same 1.5 safety factor designed by the same engineers...
Been there, done that. Our Dodge Dually was a beast & could tow whatever but it isn't needed to tow a 3 Horse trailer once or twice a week. The Ram 1500 tows our loaded (9000 lbs.) horse trailer just fine. If you are concerned about the rear sagging just add some airbags. A good trailer brake controller like the MaxBrake will make a difference also.
BTW; I see so many ford F250's just about dragging the rear on the ground just towing a landscaping trailer.
Yea, sure...if you tow heavy loads day in and day out you gotta have a dually but if someone doesn't do that you need to think realistically about upkeep & what is REALLY needed. Unless you buy a big truck to compensate for something else that isn't there.
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flywgn
Explorer
No advice here. You have much to sift through above.
Congratulations on your retirement and your upcoming travels. If you find yourself out here on the Snake River Plain, give us a shout. Accommodations for horses as well as hook-ups for your rig.
We don't have hay-burners any more but did for over forty years. My wife put over 25K miles on one mare (documented) when she was involved in endurance riding (Tevis Cup, etc.).
Hope you're able to find a rig that satisfies your needs as well as your wants, a good combination.
Allen R
P.S. FWIW we've owned an embarrassing number of vehicles and regret selling several. The only recent one that we really miss was the F250 SDTD. (This isn't meant to be construed as being 'advice'.
)As far as trailer brakes, they need nearly constant attention (adjusting). They day comes our retired adventurer is coming down off a mountain, in the rain/snow and is fully loaded, that 1/2 ton with it's puny brakes will make her fill her pants (or worse) . Perhaps your necessary attention to the brakes, excellent driving skills, and constant vigilance keep you in good stead. But for me, my family (wife ,kids etc...) give me a more substantial rig and it will give a reasonable safety factor. Just my opinion. From having trailered from Canada, to Mexico City (5 times) and across the country too numerous times to remember. A 450-550 can stop the whole shooting match without brakes if that to ever happen. Some food for thought. FYI surge brakes are best.
Nice dig, on the "compensate" comment. No I use my trucks ALOT, I must have 10 trailers, arches, brindles and the like. I haul logs, lumber, crawler, gator, barn beams, machinery you name it. Nope not compensating, just making a living, and occasionally playing.
Jronwood
Nice dig, on the "compensate" comment. No I use my trucks ALOT, I must have 10 trailers, arches, brindles and the like. I haul logs, lumber, crawler, gator, barn beams, machinery you name it. Nope not compensating, just making a living, and occasionally playing.
Jronwood
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The compensating wasn't directed at you, was just throwing it out there because that's what a lot of guys do. I do agree with you that if somebody hauls heavy trailers all the time, a dually is the way to go. However, today's 1500's can be yesterdays 2500's if properly equipped.
dare2go
Observer
We had on our truck (F250 + loaded Bigfoot Camper for 3 years Latin America trip) E-rated Bridgestone Dueler AT, and were very happy with them! When I bought the truck it came with C-rated cheapies from Korea - shocking. The E-rated ones improved stability on the road drastically, specially on bumpy bitumen and hard gravel. Once the Bridgestone were gone (~40000 miles) we had to replace them in Panama, where we couldn't get any E-rated, so we went for D, and these made the back sway much more; you basically have the feeling that the truck is loosing grip with every turn, or wants to follow all grooves/indentations on the road surface... In southern Chile in Punta Arenas we finally found again E-rated Pirelli Scorpions -
- such an improvement, even though they were narrower than our previous tires!!
wikun
Observer
Thread going in the right direction
I want to say for the record, IFS is a solid concept. In theory and upgraded applications it can equal some fantastic stuff. With that said, there isn't a truck on the market right now that I can honestly say can haul a load offroad day in and day out without some upgrade. However the solid axle counterparts to the IFS, I believe will see her through. This lady isn't looking to build a horse towing camper top having pre-runner. Just the most dependable "offroad-ish" expeditionary based truck and support it with a limited income. That isn't the torrsion bar setup that most are making now, for sure. Sorry to sound like I am lecturing. But there are really 5 trucks on the market right now that fit the bill. F250, F350, Dodge 2500, Dodge 3500, and imho Chevy/GMC 3500. IMHO their 2500 really doesn't fit the bill, and with that said I am not really a fan of the duramax/allison combo either. Your mileage may vary as they say. The first 4 trucks are fairly solid. Ford makes a good truck although their engine design department leaves me something to desire. Dodge doesn't build as good of a "truck" but the cummins company builds a solid engine. I think that she will really have to decide based on comfort. She sounds like a spry lady, but as we all know, driving that cj5 brings back great memories of our youth, but wheeling one now feels like you put your spine in a vice the next day. Take it as you will. Test driving those trucks will put you in a closer ball park. I think with the amount of miles that I believe you will be driving, you will have saved enough in comparison to gas to pay for the maintenance of the diesel. :ylsmoke:
I want to say for the record, IFS is a solid concept. In theory and upgraded applications it can equal some fantastic stuff. With that said, there isn't a truck on the market right now that I can honestly say can haul a load offroad day in and day out without some upgrade. However the solid axle counterparts to the IFS, I believe will see her through. This lady isn't looking to build a horse towing camper top having pre-runner. Just the most dependable "offroad-ish" expeditionary based truck and support it with a limited income. That isn't the torrsion bar setup that most are making now, for sure. Sorry to sound like I am lecturing. But there are really 5 trucks on the market right now that fit the bill. F250, F350, Dodge 2500, Dodge 3500, and imho Chevy/GMC 3500. IMHO their 2500 really doesn't fit the bill, and with that said I am not really a fan of the duramax/allison combo either. Your mileage may vary as they say. The first 4 trucks are fairly solid. Ford makes a good truck although their engine design department leaves me something to desire. Dodge doesn't build as good of a "truck" but the cummins company builds a solid engine. I think that she will really have to decide based on comfort. She sounds like a spry lady, but as we all know, driving that cj5 brings back great memories of our youth, but wheeling one now feels like you put your spine in a vice the next day. Take it as you will. Test driving those trucks will put you in a closer ball park. I think with the amount of miles that I believe you will be driving, you will have saved enough in comparison to gas to pay for the maintenance of the diesel. :ylsmoke:
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locrwln
Expedition Leader
Just curious about a few of your comments above. Why does the GM 2500 "not fit the bill" considering the drivetrain is the same as the 3500 in both the SRW and Dually? The only difference is an additional spring in the rear pack and possibly a different torsion bar rate in the front (dependent upon cab configuration and snow plow option or not).
Second, not argueing, but why are you not a fan of the max/alli? What is it about the combo that you don't like?
Jack
wikun
Observer
Not to hijack the thread but the the questions are in regards to my beating on GM. Here are the numbers. Dodge 2500 payload/towing 3,120/15450 3500 5,130/22,750 Ford F250 and F350 according to the brochure actually have the same towing (but different payload)/payload is 3650,4140/14000 and GM 2500 3580/13000 and the 3500 is 4566/13000. So if my calculations are correct that is one hell of an add a leaf that gm would feel confident throwing in an extra leaf and giving it an extra 1000 lbs of rating. Ford and Gm are in the same ball park. Regardless, I work with ford and gm products all day long. Working the 4x4 to way it was meant to. Just overall being off pavement with a load. IMHO I ranked the vehicles as I think they should be. Next with the power/drive train combo. Here we go, as we all know that when the ally was introduced it was a tranny that wouldn't last long and when a rebuild came along they weren't cheap, now ford has never had an incredible tranny option, I think that there build quality makes up for it. Gm's outdated interior according to me and car and driver, don't help either. Next the duramax. Gm in my opinion has always had big claims but has never been both feet into the making of these engines. I have a buddy that has an 650hp daily driver duramax/ally truck that he weekend races and it is awesome. I just think though for durability, dependabilty, overall...my opinion is just that. I know that I didn't substantiate my dislike of the GM package but I just don't enjoy being behind the wheel of one (unless it is my 98 GMC sierra 1500). Feel free to disagree.
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