Road/touring bike build up.

[Capt Sport]

Hi all,

Ok, so since I hang out here on Expo more than anywhere else I thought I'd ask for opinions here first. Granted this is not a mountain type expo bike but I consider it a daily/mini adventure road bike.

I got my old Schwinn Traveler III from back when I was a kid. I bought this thing when I was about 13. It was way to big for me back then but I grew into it. And, the frame size is still fits me. I'd like to build it up to good dependable status again and enjoy it some more. Also, it'd be cool for trips down memory lane as I rode the ever-living crap out of this thing when I was younger. Longest ride was 126 miles in a day. Went up to our cabin we had and back just to do it.

I know I could buy a much better bike for a whole lot cheaper. But then it wouldn't be my bike. (if that makes any sense? I often don't so humor me) So please don't try to talk me out of this build up.

I plan on using the bike primarily as a commuter, but also for local shopping (instead of the truck), weekly rides for fun, maybe some limited touring and possibly work my way up to a century ride. (Not as fit as I once was)

Things I'd like to have on the bike:

Shimano Components:
I've used there parts on my mountain bikes over the years and love em. Very hardy and reliable.

Triple crankset
This is a must have as I live in a hilly area and would like to have the gearing , too used to my mountain bike.

Rim/Tires
Thinking of 700 series wheels instead of the 27” that came with it when new. (do they even make 27"ers any more?)

Brooks Saddle
Just think it'd be a nice saddle for the bike and fit the overall look. Yeah, there expensive but I've heard good things about em. Anybody have one that can report on comfort etc?

What I do & don't know:

Has:
Threaded headset
English threads in the bottom bracket
Had 172.5 crank arm length

Don't know:
Headset size? Is this just a measurement of the inside diameter of the head tube? Also I assume this would be English thread as well. Correct?

Bottom bracket width, I'm assuming the bottom bracket width is the width of the shell the bracket gets mounted into. Is this correct?

Can I mix and match Shimano components? For example can I take a 105 triple crankset and use it with an XT rear cassette and derailure to get the large low gear of the XT cassette and the larger gear of the 105? (obviously not using them at the same time as that'd be cross chained and make the bike very unhappy.

What do I need to know about the frame/wheels in order to purchase the correct crankset? I'll be needing wheels as well.

Wheels, what do I need to tell the wheel builder about the frame etc so they can build wheels that'll work well.

I'm not set on which Shimano components I'd like to put on the bike but I'm pretty certain I don't need Dura-ace. Thinking 105 or Ultegra if the price is right. Headset I have no clue what would be good on this bike. I'm sure anything today would be better than what it came with. I like the idea of the lower gearing ya get with the mountain bike groups etc, but would still like the larger gear you get with the road bike groups. Just don't know if it's possible to mix and match from different groups.

As for colors, I'm torn between painting it up solid Red like it was when I was a kid. Or I've got this idea in my head about a nice copper color with all black components and wheels, mixed with a tan Brooks saddle and matching handle bar tape. I think that would look good too.

So, what do ya think?

If you can help me answer my questions I'd really appreciate it. I used to build up bikes when I was a kid but we'd just swap components around to make em work. Not up on what it takes to go from bare frame to rolling bike.

Thanks for looking and thanks in advance for any help.

 

[mrlocksmith]

I have not built a bike like you are describing but I have been test riding touring bikes and the one I keep coming back to is a Surly Long Haul Trucker. The stock components are decent the frame is bomb-proof and the gears are low. Add your B-17 and you are good to go. Take one for a test ride.

Mark

 

[washington taco]

GO FOR IT!! I bought an old Univega at a garage sale a few years back and had my buddy (who owned a bike shop) build it. I had everything changed. he had a customer that purchased a brand new Trek touring bike that didnt like drop handle bars and wanted to switch to Mt bike type. For 50.00 I bought the bars,brake leavers and Dura Ace bar end shifters. I also added 700C wheels Bontrager race set low spoke count, new bottom braket and a Bontrager compact crank set 50/37 (I think) I took the used Ultegra derailures off my race bike and had him put them on it and I installed new ones on my race bike. The only cheap part that I used (it fit the best) was a set of Tectro brakes not the most powerful brakes but safe. When the frame was disassembled I whiped the whole thing down with mineral spirits washed it and waxed it. I didnt replace the fork yet but plan on it some day to a 1" threadless from Bike Nashbar, they have them on sale once in a while for under a 100 bucks and its carbon. The casset (9 speed) I had him install was the highest tooth count that would work with the Ultegra derailure. When all said and done I had a total of 500.00 in the bike. He didnt charge me labor because he worked on it when he could and I helped out at his shop and even sold a bike once. The only thing added since have been a set of fenders and a rear rack. This thing has been bullet proof!

Thanks Tim! Tim use to own Stanwood Velo Sport in Stanwood WA. He has since moved to Maui and manages South Maui Cycles.

 

[Christophe Noel]

You say it's red? If by chance it's a '73 -'77 Traveler, you won't be able to upgrade it as you had hoped. Does it have the "Scwhinn Approved - Japan" headbadge? Does it have Shimano 400 hubs on 120mm spacing? If so, modern kit simply will not fit.

What year is it?

 

[Sloan]

I freshened up an old Trek 1200 that I have had since I was 16 or 17. I stripped it down and painted it flat black and in hindsight the paint was in such good shape I wish I had left it the original black with pink decals. I just cleaned everything up, new cables, new brake pads and a set of riser mountain bike bars. I ride it everywhere, it has gone from leaning against the side of the house for the last 14 years to in a tie for favorite bike with the Big Dummy.

 

[Capt Sport]

Flounder,

First, let me say thanks for the input.

Here's what I found out so far. The date code stamped on the front badge which does say "Schwinn Approved" Japan is : 3487 Which my understanding is that it means the 348th day of 1977.

I also looked up the s/n stamped on the left side drop out which is : 8B12071

Which from what I looked up the letter is supposed to correspond to the month and the number 8 is supposed to be the year. Since there aren't any months that begin with "B" I'm assuming that B would represent the month of August as the letter A is already used by the month April.

So, it seems that it's one of the frames that you state can't be built using modern components. Is the reason it can't built up is that the hub spacing you mention is no longer made? Are there other issues I'd run into?

Not sure what years Schwinn made the Traveler III models but I did find this one with modern components on it:

http://www.velocult.com/index.php/store/product/schwinn_traveler_gold_townie/

Incidentally my frame looks just like this one, but maybe this one is of a later year than mine.

Thanks,

 

[Christophe Noel]

The frame in that link is likely an early 80s Voyager, probably not a Traveler. To be honest, I don't know my Japanese Schwinns so well as this was the era of the Peugeot, Motobecanes, Gitanes, etc.

At any rate, your bike being a '77 has 120mm rear spacing. A modern hub has 130mm spacing. You can attempt to "cold set" that rear triangle for 130mm spacing, but that only solves 1/3rd the problem. By the way, "cold setting" is fancy talk for bend the crap out of it and hope you can retain some alignment. It still doesn't have a derailleur hanger as I recall, and that is the deal breaker.

To be honest, even in it's day, the Traveler wasn't really a century kinda bike. These were recreational bikes used very much the way people now use recreational mountain and hybrid bikes. They'd hang them in the garage, ride them on weekends, to class, around town.

If it were my bike, I'd take more satisfaction out of making it look like it did the day you fell in love with it.

 

[spacer]

If you really want to build up a bike, even if you source your frame elsewhere, it'll be "your" bike more than ever. Go for it, and build the bike you really want/need, and you won't regret it.
If you're really attached to the old bike, keep it for toodling around the neighborhood on the occasional nostalgia trip.

I picked up an old Bridgestone frame and built it up as a singlespeed airport ramp bike (aka the RampRat). It was a 27" wheeled frame, but I slipped in a couple 700c wheels and some Nashbar long reach brakes, and they work just fine.

 

[Capt Sport]

Flounder,

I called the place that has the bike in the picture I linked. They said they could cold set my frame. They claim they use a jig to keep the alignment straight. Does this sound reasonable to you? Seems like it might be a good answer. Its gotta be better than just bending the crap out the frame without it being held in place.

I'm going to visit there shop next week and see what's all involved. The more I think about it the more I'm kind of leaning toward making the bike look like it was when I got it. As you said that's the bike I fell in love with way back when and it's why I've kept it all the years. yikes: 29 years where'd that go?)

Thanks again,

 

[Capt Sport]

Sloan,

Your bike looks good to me, I like it!

 

[Capt Sport]

Spacer,

Thanks for the encouragement, I see your point. But at this time this bike in good running condition is all the bike I need. And, to me it's worth the money to restore it. I'm not that concerned about the $$$ involved in getting it complete. I think I can get this bike the way I want it for about $600 maybe a little more and to me that's worth it.

I'm just coming back to biking after about a 10 year hiatus and I am really enjoying it. I know I'll never be Lance Armstrong and so I don't need his bike. I'm enjoying the sport/hobby so much again, that in time I may do exactly as you say. All I can say is that this bike got to me a long time ago and we've spent a lot of time and miles together. It's the bike that made me fall in love with cycling in the first place. And, for that I think it deserves a quality build up. Hell at this rate I'm going to be riding it a long time. (Too sappy? Yeah probably, oh well.)

 

[Christophe Noel]

Spacer,

Thanks for the encouragement, I see your point. But at this time this bike in good running condition is all the bike I need. And, to me it's worth the money to restore it. I'm not that concerned about the $$$ involved in getting it complete. I think I can get this bike the way I want it for about $600 maybe a little more and to me that's worth it.
l.)

I think your budget might need another look. If you go with 2009 105 or something similar, you're looking at $800 before you look at wheels.

As for cold setting a frame, it's not really a tough thing to do. Frankly, you could do it with borrowed dropout alignment tools, a couple planks of wood and a 6" section of string as your frame alignment tool. Sound hokey? Yep, and that's how even Tour winning bikes were built and aligned at one point.

Just as a side bar - we are currently in the middle of the vintage bike dark ages. Avid collectors like myself are horrified by some of the latest trends that are absolutely destroying our vintage bike resources. Example numero uno - the fixie fad. For decades, collectable bikes have sat in garages and attics collecting dust, value and coolness. The fixie fad hit and any bike older than the Olsen twins became the target of these "fixie" riders. They find a beautiful vintage bike, hack it to pieces, toss the classic parts to the wind, spin on a single cog, chop up the bars and piddle...not pedal...around looking cool. Many of us in the vintage bike collecting world have tried like mad to save many of these bikes before they get hacked to bits in the name of some stupid fad.

As an example, last year I went to our local bar and out front sat a pristine mid 80s Gios Torino with full Super Record kit. I was frantic trying to find the owner. Two months later, that same bike was again out front...castrated into a fixie. It took 5 months to find the 20 year old owner who got this bike off his step dad. When I asked him where the Super Record derailleur went he said, "threw it away." When I told him the Ti BOLT on that derailleur alone was worth $200 he about crapped himself. When I told him that his bike pre hack-job was worth a MINIMUM of $2500 he again blushed. When I told him that the historical value of that bike was impossible to value, he probably felt bad, and that made me feel bad. As it is, that frame, stripped of it's original charm is probably worth less than a month's worth of Starbucks and a piece of cycling legacy is lost for ever.

Some bikes are not meant to be chopped up for a fad. Some bikes are best preserved. Imagine putting 24" wheels and a blower on a 1960s Series Land Rover. OR WORSE - Imagine if all the world's Defender 110s were being snatched up to be converted to low riders.

 

[spacer]

I will agree wholeheartedly with that last post. I had the opportunity to ride an older Austro Daimler roadie, and it was freakin' sweet. Beautiful bike, too. I held on to it for about a year before the previous owner asked for it back. Since he'd given it to me, I didn't argue, as I already felt a little guilty about taking it in the first place.

My Bridgestone, on the other hand, was purchased as a bare frame, and while I didn't build it up as a fixie, I didn't figure it was really worth digging for "correct" parts for the hi-ten lugged frame. Maybe one day, but I like it this way for the moment.

For touring, I have a Surly Long-Haul-Trucker. Nothing special, really, but it's a good honest bike, and feels good, especially since I bought the Brooks saddle for it.

The bike I've ridden the most, with something over 30,000 miles on it, is a 2000 Kona Jake-the-Snake. It came with mostly 105 components, but I replaced the cogset with a Shimano XT unit for the gear ranges. It isn't set up for touring, but I've taken it on several centuries and other event rides, including the '04 Hotter'n'Hell Hundred.
Since I'm older and fatter now, I picked up the Surly, but I'm considering changing Jake's twin crank for a triple, and running inverted tread fatty tires for dirt road/trail touring.

 

[IdaSHO]

There are a few different trains of thought in this thread so far, and that is good. 'Cause there really isnt ONE way to do what you want to do.

Ill give you my take on it.

Unless you are dead-set on running a 700 wheel, there are still many ties available for the old 27's. Good ones too.

And it sounds like you are set on a fresh set of hubs? Why??
Changing hubs on these vintage bikes not only cause rear drop-out issues with width, but putting brand new hubs on an old bike simply takes something away from it in my opinion. Isnt cheap either.

Even if you step up to a 700, relacing a new rim with an old hub is not hard. And it doesnt take more than 20 minutes to repack a set of hub bearings. Which is all the hubs should need.

Maybe I missed it, but why all the talk about new hardware? Does the bike not have any existing components?

One great thing about the vintage bikes is the cool vintage components. And most people dont even ride enough to wear them out. They last a LONG time. A good cleaning, maybe a soak in ATF, and a lube is normally all it takes.



I guess Im just wondering why you are jumping into this expecting to shell out $$$$$$$$$, when all this bike may need is a few parts, and a bit f work.

 

[Capt Sport]

IdaSho,

You've asked a series of really good questions and I'll see if I can shed some light on my train of thought with this bike.

1) I'm not really dead set on 700 wheels, it's just that I thought that since I'm adding all new parts why not use the new wheel size as well since it fits. I'll do some searching on the net to see what 27' tires are available.

2) I need to run a new set of hubs as I no longer have the old ones. Back in my younger dumber days I used to ride wheelies on this bike a lot. Which did the front wheel no favors. Combine that with the day my brother stole my bike and damaged the rear wheel. I ended up stashing the wheels in my dads garage but over the years they disappeared. So, I need new hubs anyway.

3) All the new hardware? Well, I have the cranks and the derailleurs but that's about it. Most all of the other hardware has been lost over the years. So I just figured it best to start over with all new parts rather than trying to piece together the components to try and make this work with the period correct components.

I plan on keeping this bike for a long time and since I basically only have a frame and fork I just thought I'd build it up with all new components. Also, I've talked to the guys at Velocult which has the bike I linked previously. I'm going there next week and will checking out that bike in person to get an idea of what to expect before I make any changes to my frame.

Thanks for your thoughts and input, it's nice to get different perspectives.