Runs poorly on 93 octane

scrubber3

Not really here
You read it right!! I decided to treat my 95 Monty LS with premium and it got really mad at me. Hesitation, hiccups, and just angry at me! drained most of it to put in the G35 and filled up the Monty with 87 octane. Ran just fine afterward. Darnest things sometimes.... Any thoughts on this?
 

scrubber3

Not really here
It's the same gas I put in the Infiniti G35. I have some NGK platinum plugs and some Denso wires I will be installing next week. I'm sure it needs some attention to the ignition system. I guess old plugs won't ignite premium fuels as well as regular? I'd think it would be the other way around.... I am really not sure what plugs are in it now, but I prefer NGK and Denso to anything else. I wouldn't be surprised to find some crappy Bosch plugs in there when I switch them out.
 

schnutzy

Observer
well duh. the 3.0 in your LS was not designed to run on 93 octane. there is a reason there are recommended grades. for best performance, you need to run what is recommended for your engine, because guess what, thats what it is tuned to run on. imagine that!
 

4xdog

Explorer
well duh. the 3.0 in your LS was not designed to run on 93 octane. there is a reason there are recommended grades. for best performance, you need to run what is recommended for your engine, because guess what, thats what it is tuned to run on. imagine that!

Why on earth would a car not run just as well on 93 octane vs 87? The fact that it was designed to run down to 87 in no way, shape, or form should make it run poorly on 93. It just wastes the detonation resistance of the good juice.

Could you give us some insight into the mechanisms behind your thinking?

I'm betting on bad gas.
 

schnutzy

Observer
Why on earth would a car not run just as well on 93 octane vs 87? The fact that it was designed to run down to 87 in no way, shape, or form should make it run poorly on 93. It just wastes the detonation resistance of the good juice.

Could you give us some insight into the mechanisms behind your thinking?

I'm betting on bad gas.

forgive me i am a little rusty, as it has been many years since ive had to explain it. but higher octane gas is both harder to ignite, and slower burning then 87. it is meant to be used in high compression engines. an engine that is not tuned/designed to run on it, are un able to take advantage of any performance benefit that a higher octane would provide. because of this, and engine that is recommended for 87, can actually run worse, and dirtier when running 93 octane, because it is not able to burn off and use the fuel.

running 93 in an engine that was never meant to use it is just throwing money away. if you insist on doing that, then i will gladly pocket the money you want to throw away.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
well duh. the 3.0 in your LS was not designed to run on 93 octane. there is a reason there are recommended grades. for best performance, you need to run what is recommended for your engine, because guess what, thats what it is tuned to run on. imagine that!

Have you been drinking or did you take a tactless pill? So I need a custom tune to run 6 octane points higher? LOL come on man.... At least research what you're about to discuss.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
I'm betting on bad gas.

I believe it may be a little bit of a "bad gas" issue. I am inclined to think it has something to do with my spark plugs all things considered though. Next week I am pulling the old plugs out and I will let you guys know for sure.
 

schnutzy

Observer
Have you been drinking or did you take a tactless pill? So I need a custom tune to run 6 octane points higher? LOL come on man.... At least research what you're about to discuss.

no, i am not drunk, nor am i taking any pills.
any performance engine shop who actually know what they are doing, are going to tell you the same thing i just did. read my post above you, hopefully it will make more sense. if not, then go ahead and throw money away, what the hell do i care. you asked a question, and i gave you an answer that i know to be correct. dont like it? well, thats life
 
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4xdog

Explorer
...throw money away...

We're in complete agreement there, schnutzy. Higher octane than needed to prevent detonation is a waste.

But that doesn't explain how a car will run poorer on higher octane. That goes against all my experience and everthing I've been taught since Doc Schraeder in my first automotive class at university almost 35 years ago.
 

schnutzy

Observer
We're in complete agreement there, schnutzy. Higher octane than needed to prevent detonation is a waste.

But that doesn't explain how a car will run poorer on higher octane.

because it is unable to use all the fuel.
with the higher then recommended octane, your engine is still squirting in the same amount of fuel as it would with the recommended grade, however now, its not burning off all that fuel.
 

scrubber3

Not really here
because it is unable to use all the fuel.
with the higher then recommended octane, your engine is still squirting in the same amount of fuel as it would with the recommended grade, however now, its not burning off all that fuel.

I can see your point to a degree... But it does not make sense that it ran so poorly. A little hesitation here and there, sure. But it was barely making it up hills. Keeping in mind, that I probably need new spark plugs and that it may enhance the "compression issue" to a point that it runs rough, I even believe that it could be the culprit. But in no way will I believe that with a perfectly running engine 93 octane will make it run worse all by itself.

So theoretically, if I were to tune the timing and injector pulse to compensate for the need for added compression, I could actually save fuel?
 

schnutzy

Observer
I can see your point to a degree... But it does not make sense that it ran so poorly. A little hesitation here and there, sure. But it was barely making it up hills. Keeping in mind, that I probably need new spark plugs and that it may enhance the "compression issue" to a point that it runs rough, I even believe that it could be the culprit. But in no way will I believe that with a perfectly running engine 93 octane will make it run worse all by itself.

So theoretically, if I were to tune the timing and injector pulse to compensate for the need for added compression, I could actually save fuel?

yes, bad spark plugs could definitely make it worse. it is kind of like, when one little thing goes wrong, you wont really notice it, but when lots of little things start happening, that all adds up.
but, i can tell you from personal experience, that a perfectly running engine will run noticeably rougher on 93 when 87 is recommended. I experienced it first hand, borrowing my dads 1 year old F150 helping a friend move. I had to throw in a few gallons of premium because at 2 in the morning, the little middle of no where gas station was out of 87. this is actually what caused me to start researching the 87 vs 93 octane thing in the first place, because all those years ago, it made no sense to me that a different octane would cause that.

now as for tuning your montero to run on 93. I am not sure exactly how you would, or why. i run 87 in my LS and I am perfectly happy with the way it runs and have no desire to tune it other wise.
 

SOFpirate

Adventurer
The way I always tricked myself into thinking about gas was this.

The Monty was designed to be driven in 3rd world countries, so 3rd world gas is what I use.

I swear to the Mitsubishi gods themselves, I use this super crappy gas from a very shady gas station that hasn't denied watering down their gas, and it runs like a champ. As soon as I run Shell or Chevron or Tom Thumb or anything of the sorts, she yells at me.

Who knows?
 

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