RV & Camper Prices vs Inflation
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Todd780
OverCamper
All the prices for hard goods and wages always follow the simple law of supply and demand.
Over the last couple years, some businesses have been sitting on supply, some have artificially inflated things because they could. In the last 9 months a lot of businesses have been liquidating inventory, trimming the fat and getting ready for lean times.
I just bought a new mountain bike at 35% off. Wish I could find a nice reasonably priced diesel truck but there is no supply of those.
Without getting into debatable economic minutia, the supply of RV's and boats has been growing. Inevitably if holders of such things have to sell, they'll have to lower the price to where someone will buy or they will have to hold onto them. I suspect as the prices drop below what is owed quite a few will be turned over to the bank.
Hard to get desirable models will hold their value. Cracker boxes will bottom out. If you don't need a cracker box right now, most likely it will be cheaper in a year.
Over the last couple years, some businesses have been sitting on supply, some have artificially inflated things because they could. In the last 9 months a lot of businesses have been liquidating inventory, trimming the fat and getting ready for lean times.
I just bought a new mountain bike at 35% off. Wish I could find a nice reasonably priced diesel truck but there is no supply of those.
Without getting into debatable economic minutia, the supply of RV's and boats has been growing. Inevitably if holders of such things have to sell, they'll have to lower the price to where someone will buy or they will have to hold onto them. I suspect as the prices drop below what is owed quite a few will be turned over to the bank.
Hard to get desirable models will hold their value. Cracker boxes will bottom out. If you don't need a cracker box right now, most likely it will be cheaper in a year.
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eatSleepWoof
Do it for the 'gram
Cancelled Netflix earlier this year and haven't missed it a single time. Between the constant cancellations of good shows (because they don't want to pay the actors/talent their worth), the endless woke-flavoured stupidity that is simply unwatchable, lack of good, new content, cracking down on account sharing and constant price increases, it simply made no sense to keep it around.
There are other, better ways to get digital media content without going through the ridiculous streaming services (which get crappier by the day).
"RV sales nosedive across the board" - an RV Travel (rvtravel.com) article from July 12, 2024, discusses travel trailer and RV sales as of May 2024 and the prior 12 months trends. Total sales declined 16.2%.
Both towables and RV's had sales declines. Travel trailers were down 12%, fifth wheels down 15.9%, pop-up's were down 29.4% and park models down 42.9%. For RV's, Class A sales declined 20%, Class C declined 21.9%, and Class B declined 29.8%.
Both towables and RV's had sales declines. Travel trailers were down 12%, fifth wheels down 15.9%, pop-up's were down 29.4% and park models down 42.9%. For RV's, Class A sales declined 20%, Class C declined 21.9%, and Class B declined 29.8%.
Risar
New member
Interest rate increases are typically going to slow down sales, especially on high priced items (homes, cars etc). That’s by design as the historical pattern is lower demand blunts growth, causes receding prices
History lesson - the 70’s were god awful economically, lots of international turmoil and bad foreign policy decisions caused problems with a lot of raw materials, notably oil. This caused inflation to skyrocket (peak was 18% in 1980). The response same as now was increase rates, which peaked at 13.3 in carter’s last year. CPI is messy to track over time but was roughly increasing around 11-13% annually
Reagan and Volker stepped in and immediately passed policy and tax cuts to crush inflation rather than dawdling. Super unpopular move for about a year, but then inflation and CPI crated to about 1/3rd of their starting point by the time he was up for re-election (won 49 states). This is consistently misreported by the media as “Reaganflation” but was in fact more Nixon & Carter.
The reason I mention this is because the current administration is following the Carter playbook to a T. They are attempting to force the economy to bend the knee through indirect policy and middling rate increases. This isn’t working as intended because 1. COVID suppressed spending and demand unnaturally, the economy was in a healthy place in 2019 2. Supply chains are wayyyy more complex.
Media is also reporting on this like a 5th grader. If you run a consumer resell business like a grocery store, you don’t generally negotiate specific prices, you negotiate margin. That margin, let’s say 10% on potato chips, rises with unit costs. Chips at $1 and 10% margin means selling a bag of chips yields the grocer .10, chips at $5 and the same 10% yields the grocer .50 and so on. Great, so what?
In a highly inflationary period that .50 is worth less to the grocer just like it is worth less to you, and nobody is reporting on profits/margin adjusted for inflation. This is why the minimum wage increase + inflation are causing companies to pull out of certain areas. They would be losing money.
“But profits are at record levels” - not adjusted for inflation they aren’t.
The other element that has been consistently misreported is based on data from a narrow window, right after the pandemic. Profits skyrocketed for a number of reasons, but they’ve since leveled off to basically the same level as before in most industries (oil being an exception last I looked) which is between 1/4 and 1/3 of total inflation. Gov’t money printing and spending is a higher share of the pie FWIW and that is also a very recent change.
TLDR - inflation isn’t what you are being told. It’s worse. They do not know how to fix it, prices are likely going to continue to go up, supply chains also mean this likely wont be fixed by rates or recession alone. Sorry, bad decade.
History lesson - the 70’s were god awful economically, lots of international turmoil and bad foreign policy decisions caused problems with a lot of raw materials, notably oil. This caused inflation to skyrocket (peak was 18% in 1980). The response same as now was increase rates, which peaked at 13.3 in carter’s last year. CPI is messy to track over time but was roughly increasing around 11-13% annually
Reagan and Volker stepped in and immediately passed policy and tax cuts to crush inflation rather than dawdling. Super unpopular move for about a year, but then inflation and CPI crated to about 1/3rd of their starting point by the time he was up for re-election (won 49 states). This is consistently misreported by the media as “Reaganflation” but was in fact more Nixon & Carter.
The reason I mention this is because the current administration is following the Carter playbook to a T. They are attempting to force the economy to bend the knee through indirect policy and middling rate increases. This isn’t working as intended because 1. COVID suppressed spending and demand unnaturally, the economy was in a healthy place in 2019 2. Supply chains are wayyyy more complex.
Media is also reporting on this like a 5th grader. If you run a consumer resell business like a grocery store, you don’t generally negotiate specific prices, you negotiate margin. That margin, let’s say 10% on potato chips, rises with unit costs. Chips at $1 and 10% margin means selling a bag of chips yields the grocer .10, chips at $5 and the same 10% yields the grocer .50 and so on. Great, so what?
In a highly inflationary period that .50 is worth less to the grocer just like it is worth less to you, and nobody is reporting on profits/margin adjusted for inflation. This is why the minimum wage increase + inflation are causing companies to pull out of certain areas. They would be losing money.
“But profits are at record levels” - not adjusted for inflation they aren’t.
The other element that has been consistently misreported is based on data from a narrow window, right after the pandemic. Profits skyrocketed for a number of reasons, but they’ve since leveled off to basically the same level as before in most industries (oil being an exception last I looked) which is between 1/4 and 1/3 of total inflation. Gov’t money printing and spending is a higher share of the pie FWIW and that is also a very recent change.
TLDR - inflation isn’t what you are being told. It’s worse. They do not know how to fix it, prices are likely going to continue to go up, supply chains also mean this likely wont be fixed by rates or recession alone. Sorry, bad decade.
Compare an Apple to an Apple. Over time, some "base" trailers have added features and expenses that aren't shown with just a sticker price.
Next is the cost of skilled labor. They go where they get paid best and have to earn more than the cost of living locally, whether that agrees with various INFLATION INDICATORS or not. Tell me inflation is 2%~8% and tell me why eggs have tripled in price locally or why a loaf of bread is twice as expensive! Is apartment rent only up by CPI? If you don't pay enough for people to live locally, they will move. If they can make more money working for someone else, guess what, they will!
Supply and demand are at play. I spoke to a lady locally that bought a new Ford Bronco for $20K over MSRP! 😲 She just had to have it! With easy money during COVID and a YOLO mentality, people bought all sorts of things at the time when supply was low and demand was high. This leads to all sorts of market abuses. For me, buying a car, new or used, was among the worst with dealers charging all sort of questionable fees with vehicles marked up over the retail market under the false belief that would be the last one ever on their lot and they would never be able to replace it!
Boats, motorcycles, RVs, travel trailers, and similar YOLO recreational items all suffer from this effect where HORRIBLE DEALER POLICIES were tolerated by the BUYING PUBLIC!
So, telling me a nice Overlanding trailer has gone up in price by 10%~20% in the past couple of years does not surprise me at all. Real costs are up for labor and materials. Price gouging is less likely due to fewer buyers in the market with the ability to pay for what they are dreaming about.
So, manufacturers could build a "cheaper" product to keep prices level across time or, they MUST raise prices to cover increasing costs. And, in many cases what you are looking at today is a better product than it was during or Pre-COVID.
Next is the cost of skilled labor. They go where they get paid best and have to earn more than the cost of living locally, whether that agrees with various INFLATION INDICATORS or not. Tell me inflation is 2%~8% and tell me why eggs have tripled in price locally or why a loaf of bread is twice as expensive! Is apartment rent only up by CPI? If you don't pay enough for people to live locally, they will move. If they can make more money working for someone else, guess what, they will!
Supply and demand are at play. I spoke to a lady locally that bought a new Ford Bronco for $20K over MSRP! 😲 She just had to have it! With easy money during COVID and a YOLO mentality, people bought all sorts of things at the time when supply was low and demand was high. This leads to all sorts of market abuses. For me, buying a car, new or used, was among the worst with dealers charging all sort of questionable fees with vehicles marked up over the retail market under the false belief that would be the last one ever on their lot and they would never be able to replace it!
Boats, motorcycles, RVs, travel trailers, and similar YOLO recreational items all suffer from this effect where HORRIBLE DEALER POLICIES were tolerated by the BUYING PUBLIC!
So, telling me a nice Overlanding trailer has gone up in price by 10%~20% in the past couple of years does not surprise me at all. Real costs are up for labor and materials. Price gouging is less likely due to fewer buyers in the market with the ability to pay for what they are dreaming about.
So, manufacturers could build a "cheaper" product to keep prices level across time or, they MUST raise prices to cover increasing costs. And, in many cases what you are looking at today is a better product than it was during or Pre-COVID.
eatSleepWoof
Do it for the 'gram
There is another factor you're overlooking: margins per sale of unit, the dealers' absolute unwillingness to compromise on this (ie. their profit).
From my own recent travel trailer (Winnebago) buying experience, I can tell you this:
1. My trailer is a 2022 model, which was never registered, and I bought it brand new in January of 2024 for about $6k under invoice (which was 2022 - peak COVID insanity pricing).
2. Borderline identical 2024 models are listed at dealers for $20,000-$25,000 over invoice.
3. Once in a blue moon, the same dealers run "big sales" that discount these trailers to about $10k over invoice, while preaching about the "amazing, once in a lifetime" deal they are offering you.
The dealers want a minimum $10k pure profit per sale of each trailer. Many dealers want (and even get) considerably more. That's the largest chunk of the problem IMO. These parasites are used to making money head over heel for contributing virtually nothing of value to the process. In the current market they're finally starting to sweat and get nervous, but there's a long (and I'd say inevitable) way for them to go.
There is a similar margin scenario at the manufacturer's level, too. They want to keep making the absurd money they've always been making, while producing the same exact crap (frequently to an even worse standard of quality). The reckoning will come sooner or later.
Good point touching on my "dealer" comment.
The Overland trailers I shop are manufacturer direct for me and they don't have the problems either of us has mentioned if they want my serious consideration. If they are padding the sales price for no reason other than greed and laziness, I move on.
Risar
New member
By what magical force? Their cost of labor went up, their cost of parts went up, depending on their property situation that may also have gone up. Cost of capital has gone up.
Inflation gains are a permanent state, the only way to unwind it is deflation which is super super bad. Not even 2008 bad, far worse.
Options are stop buying, compete or deal. I saw someone complaining about Chipotle prices earlier because they have “record profit” and compared company wide profits from a decade ago to today. What they didn’t cover is that the number of stores is over double, and the unit economics (profit) are within 4% of a decade ago.
Same thing here.
Mickey Bitsko
Adventurer
Two separate topics here, wants vs needs.
Needs, are a part of life, can't live without them, food, shelter, clothing , safety etc.
Wants, on the other hand is keeping up with the Joneses. As people keep up with basic living expenses, insurance, food, rent , et al . Toys, rvs, phones and stuff that makes you cool industries will compete with each other to get your business.
Shareholders want profit not inventory, profit = what the market will bear.
Note, I believe this comment pertains to the,' what's left of the middle class '
Needs, are a part of life, can't live without them, food, shelter, clothing , safety etc.
Wants, on the other hand is keeping up with the Joneses. As people keep up with basic living expenses, insurance, food, rent , et al . Toys, rvs, phones and stuff that makes you cool industries will compete with each other to get your business.
Shareholders want profit not inventory, profit = what the market will bear.
Note, I believe this comment pertains to the,' what's left of the middle class '
That is more about POLITICS IMHO and being a SIX-SECOND SOUND BITE for people without any basic business sense.
~4% profit on a carton of eggs or a loaf of bread is what it is. Several years later when the same company is selling 4 times as many eggs and loaves of bread at ~3% profit will have RECORD HIGH PROFITS even though net income on each item is actually less in real terms.
I think this is where a lot of companies we patronize are right now, ignoring a small minority that taking advantage of the situation. In my case, is Prinsu price gouging or, are they making a better product at roughly the same relative price (meaning 'profit' is in line with what it has always been)? That doesn't mean I am being taken advantage of and, I'll be honest the product they make today is better than the one I currently have installed on my Tacoma.
rruff
Explorer
I've noticed a huge number of people have no sense of any sort...
I've noticed a huge number of people have no sense of any sort...
Not to derail and sidetrack this thread needlessly, a lot of younger people support initiatives they don't understand. I am fine with views that are in conflict with mine but, if you are going chant something like "Palestine will be free from the River to the Sea", you should understand what you are advocating because it isn't just a catchy Social Media thing for more "likes".
Younger people generally seem to lack the capability of independent thought and look to Social Media to fill in the gaps.
Unfortunately, this leads to bad policies being put in place that fuels inflation even more. Take college tuition as an example to the OP original post, if the government student loans are limited to $20K a year, guess how much tuition costs? Increase the loan amount to $50K a year, and what happened to tuition? Yep, it rose to match the student debt amount.
Then, you have supply and demand. Look at Ferrari! They always build one less than they can sell. That is a big part of the reason Ferrari cars have a high price and maintain their value.
When you get a pay raise and then go shopping, the number of purchase options hasn't changed. What has changed is your ability to "out bid" the person next to you trying to buy it as well.
This is part of the reason I am selective where I shop for a new trailer. I can look at a Nut House Hickory price before COVID and at the price today. At first blush, it looks like price gouging. Then I look at the cost of goods used to make it versus the price increases today. This blunts my initial feelings of price gouging.
This sequence of inflation, we are seeing today, has been going on in South America for decades. If politicians continue pandering to financially ignorant people, what the OP noted in terms of price increases and others' comments more generally aimed at inflation will just continue so, my advice, by your trailer TODAY!
CORVDealers
New member
1. Yes it's possible with certain incentives to get a 2022 Winnebago in 2024 for thousands under invoice.
2. 20-25k over invoice would be at or over MSRP on a Winnebago
3. If i could make $10k on a Winnebago Micro Minnie i would order a hundred of them today
$10k of pure profit on each sale is a pipe dream. Unless you mean 10% which is much more normal margin, and allows the consumer to get a good deal and the dealer can then stay in business while paying their employees well.