Sad End to This Cautionary Tale, As Folks Start to Head Back Out Into the Wilds, Pls Be Careful

[ducktapeguy]

[/QUOTE]

I would argue that while the USGS maps are not inherently inaccurate, they don't take into account 100% of everything. They simply cannot. Not at a 1:24,000 scale. They show gross elevation and elevation changes, vegetation, overlay, some water features, and large man made objects of importance. You can get a really good sense of what you are up against, but you don't get the full picture.

Agree 100%. A topo map can give you an overall sense of the terrain, but even the best map will not tell you whether or not an area is passable or impassable. There are plenty of places that look worse on a map, but are easily hikeable, and other areas where a map can't convey the difficulty.

It's really pretty simple: There is no complete substitute for a map, a compass, and the skills to use them. Heading off into unknown territory without them in inherently risky.

Foy

A maps has gotten me into trouble as often as it has gotten me out of trouble. Maybe I'm not the best map reader, but a map can only tell me if the terrain is steep, but it can't tell me if there's an easy path down that terrain or if it's completely undoable without special equipment. It's similar to a trail map off road, without any rating systems or trip reports, a map alone can't tell you how difficult the trail is. Also, things can change year to year or even month to month, especially in desert canyons. What could have previously been a relatively simple hike could become a technical canyon, and vice versa.

Most people in DV aren't going to be carrying a 7.5 minute topo map unless they are going to a very specific area and need that level of detail, i.e. canyoning in a specific canyon. What some people might not understand is DV is huge, over 3 million acres. Carrying a 7.5 minute topo map is like inspecting a house with a microscope. What most people will carry is probably the National Park Map, or if they're a little more prepared, the Tom Harrison map linked above. Neither of those maps would indicate that Willow canyon is impassable by foot. Only through the luxury of hindsight, sitting at a computer looking at satellite views, google earth, and reading past trip reports, AND knowing 2 people died there, are people able to come to the conclusion that the path from Gold Valley to Badwater wasn't doable. Even with Google satellite view, and having hiked in that area, when looking at the area they were in I wouldn't have immediately assume that Willow canyon was a technical canyon. It's not until you read first hand trip reports that you would know it can't be hiked easily. Had they gone a 1/4 mile north or south, there's a really good chance they would have made it to the bottom and this story would have had a different outcome.

 

[axlesandantennas]

Here is a screen grab from the USGS topo quad download page. I marked up the very rough boundary of Death Valley National Park. By my count, there are at least 110 individual maps one would need to cover the entire park.

You are 100% spot on about pre-planning. We have stuff available to us that any national intelligence agency would have loved to have had not even two decades ago. And it's all nearly free!

Place I used to work for, I made maps of sampling sights for soil and water samples. Our preplanning was always done as a best guess between me and a small team of geologists. And we would always say "the data indicates x, but we won't know until we get there". And every time, the project manager would say "but the maps says X IS there". No, it just says it's possible.

Same for my time in the military. We used 1:50,000 maps. We would have a general route plan when we patrolled. If we tried to do the route 100% the way it was mapped, we would have been stopped who knows how many times due to 1) outdated maps or 2) features not listed on the map.

 

[WeLikeCamping]

Might as well add my opinion to this thread. Disclaimer: I'm not a cartographer or a former Marine and I don't even know where the Holiday Inn Express is. I do, however, have many years of experience traveling in rugged country. I too, live in the desert and whenever I venture off pavement, that thought is always part of my consciousness. Just from the minimal information we have about this event, I may well have made similar decisions. However, my first consideration is the vehicle I am driving and whether or not it is actually capable of traversing the terrain I plan to visit. I think that was a huge mistake on their part, and really is the reason why things went south so fast.

IMHO, they made good choices in a difficult situation, so far as I can tell. They did leave a detailed note in the car describing where they were going on foot. They seemed to be somewhat aware of their location, track and distance to safety and it does not seem unreasonable to me that they would try to walk out. It is good planning that they had water - maybe not enough for more than a day or so in the desert, but atmospheric conditions have to be taken into consideration - In July, nobody should be this daring without more water. Sure, they could have stayed with the car and consumed all the water just laying around and they may or may not have been rescued. When in the desert, especially in remote areas, it is prudent to consider the possibility that you may be able to walk out faster than getting rescued. Knowing that a spring is nearby is good knowledge, and even if it is intermittent and dry, there is still a chance one can dig and find the seep, or water. More of a chance than where they were with the car. Knowing the terrain they were traversing is good, but you have to couple that with the degree of danger you are willing to risk to get somewhere. Is there possibly a way around? I would never downclimb a rappel route, unless I was roped, but then why when you can just rappel. I digress.

My strategy has always been (and always will be) to utilize technology before and during my exploring. I map a route, study it on GE and GAIA, download the maps and tracks to my devices - and I make sure I have paper maps of the region. Google Earth is questionable at best however, as the images may sometimes be outdated and it does not show terrain very well. I've seen roads on GE that looked like you could drive you Tesla down, but when getting there and actually seeing the road, I wouldn't even go down it in 4WD. I have been technically "lost" before, but honestly, I would describe it as "not quite sure where I am" and I have always been able to self-rescue (if you want to call it that).

Oh, and one final note - YES, I AM going to give you grief about lighting fires as a signal. IF you do this, you should be taking ALL necessary precautions to prevent a forest fire. One of the largest man-made fires in Arizona was a result of someone lighting a signal fire, then when they actually got rescued, no-one went to the effort to extinguish the fire.

 

[axlesandantennas]

Might as well add my opinion to this thread. Disclaimer: I'm not a cartographer or a former Marine and I don't even know where the Holiday Inn Express is. I do, however, have many years of experience traveling in rugged country. I too, live in the desert and whenever I venture off pavement, that thought is always part of my consciousness. Just from the minimal information we have about this event, I may well have made similar decisions. However, my first consideration is the vehicle I am driving and whether or not it is actually capable of traversing the terrain I plan to visit. I think that was a huge mistake on their part, and really is the reason why things went south so fast.

IMHO, they made good choices in a difficult situation, so far as I can tell. They did leave a detailed note in the car describing where they were going on foot. They seemed to be somewhat aware of their location, track and distance to safety and it does not seem unreasonable to me that they would try to walk out. It is good planning that they had water - maybe not enough for more than a day or so in the desert, but atmospheric conditions have to be taken into consideration - In July, nobody should be this daring without more water. Sure, they could have stayed with the car and consumed all the water just laying around and they may or may not have been rescued. When in the desert, especially in remote areas, it is prudent to consider the possibility that you may be able to walk out faster than getting rescued. Knowing that a spring is nearby is good knowledge, and even if it is intermittent and dry, there is still a chance one can dig and find the seep, or water. More of a chance than where they were with the car. Knowing the terrain they were traversing is good, but you have to couple that with the degree of danger you are willing to risk to get somewhere. Is there possibly a way around? I would never downclimb a rappel route, unless I was roped, but then why when you can just rappel. I digress.

My strategy has always been (and always will be) to utilize technology before and during my exploring. I map a route, study it on GE and GAIA, download the maps and tracks to my devices - and I make sure I have paper maps of the region. Google Earth is questionable at best however, as the images may sometimes be outdated and it does not show terrain very well. I've seen roads on GE that looked like you could drive you Tesla down, but when getting there and actually seeing the road, I wouldn't even go down it in 4WD. I have been technically "lost" before, but honestly, I would describe it as "not quite sure where I am" and I have always been able to self-rescue (if you want to call it that).

Oh, and one final note - YES, I AM going to give you grief about lighting fires as a signal. IF you do this, you should be taking ALL necessary precautions to prevent a forest fire. One of the largest man-made fires in Arizona was a result of someone lighting a signal fire, then when they actually got rescued, no-one went to the effort to extinguish the fire.

I'll give you that on the fires. I'm thinking from my perspective and the thought that from where they were, a fire would not cause a disaster. But, that's me thinking from my computer.

I've been lost several times in my Jeep. But I guess that as long as I maintain some sort of understanding of where I am, both on maps and gps, I can recover from my lostness fairly easily.

 

[WeLikeCamping]

I agree, that for them, it was a viable option. Probably not much else to burn out there . Just as a general precaution about what to do when lost - maybe the best advice is to think long and hard about your choices - before making them.

Looking at Willow Creek on GE and in the NPS flyer, I would never have even considered downclimbing that. - Even with that, my approach has always been to stay as high as possible - following the ridge lines instead of valleys which appears to have been a good choice in this case.

 

[rruff]

Even with that, my approach has always been to stay as high as possible - following the ridge lines instead of valleys which appears to have been a good choice in this case.

Yep, good for seeing where you are. But it looks like if they'd picked any valley other than the one they did, they would have been alright. Willow Canyon is just so big and obvious and even has some greenery! The serious mistake was in continuing on when it got precarious rather than turning around and trying a different route.

 

[axlesandantennas]

Yep, good for seeing where you are. But it looks like if they'd picked any valley other than the one they did, they would have been alright. Willow Canyon is just so big and obvious and even has some greenery! The serious mistake was in continuing on when it got precarious rather than turning around and trying a different route.

Yes. I've gone out in the past with some people who liked to take risky routes. If I felt the route was dangerous or beyond my skill, I looked for a go around. Now a days, I only travel with people I know have the same risk acceptance as I do. I went with one dude a while ago who was bent on finding the deepest mudhole he could find. I had to pull him out twice. After that, he wanted a third go at it. I told him he was on his own and very much meant it. It was crazy. He even had soft shackles with him and had zero idea how to use them.

If I get myself in a jam, I don't start to push forward harder, I just look around and think about my options. Panic is a killer.

 

[WeLikeCamping]

He probably looked at the map, saw the trees and rationalized that it was all downhill, then, when it got rugged, felt committed. Sorry for the couple.

 

[BigDawwg]

Ok,,,,, a note to my last Post, I don't carry any type of GPS out in the Field, I have the 7.5Min TOPO Map -[Folded inside 3-Zip Lock Bags]- and usually 1 or 2 of my Compasses, for the Area's that I plan on Hunting, Hiking ~ Fly-Fishing, Camping, Exploring etc..... sometimes I will do an Over-Fly on Google-Earth though, before leaving the House, especially if it's a NEW Area to me, and the only Electronics I carry Afield is my Iridium 9555 Sat-Phone, with 2nd Battery, and a small 5-Watt Flexible Folding Solar Charging Panel, this all takes up very little space in my Backpack, and I won't leave the House, or the Truck with out it..... Period.
And as I said in one of my early Posts in this Thread,,,,, it's my Opinion, that they did have a Map, probably the Park type that was attached early in this Thread, but did not understand what they were looking at,,,,, and that's what lead to his Demise, and her broken Foot..... and with that, I'll move on.
BD in Alaska.....

 

[Foy]

I would argue that while the USGS maps are not inherently inaccurate, they don't take into account 100% of everything. They simply cannot. Not at a 1:24,000 scale. They show gross elevation and elevation changes, vegetation, overlay, some water features, and large man made objects of importance. You can get a really good sense of what you are up against, but you don't get the full picture.

Here is a video I made a few months ago about how to profile terrain. It allows the user to take those contour lines on the map and actually get a profile view of what they are up against.

You won't find in my post a declarative statement that I believe USGS maps provide 100% of everything, nor will anybody find I am recommending possession of all of the USGS quad sheets for DV whenever visiting. The point was, and is, that heading off into unknown territory without a good topographic map, a compass, and the skillset to use them is in and of itself inherently risky. When that additional inherent risk is weighed along with other risks and alternative risks, the map user can make more informed and better choices. I respectfully suggest it was possible to collect a lot of inference about the route with even a less detailed topographic map, such as the whole park topo available as a PDF. With it one can see the sinuous plan view of Willow Creek, the elevation drop down to Badwater Road, and the short horizontal distance between the pass and the valley floor, and conclude the route is difficult. With difficulty in mind, some might make other choices as to what to do, or not do.

No complete substitute--simple as that.

Foy

 

[Knickter]

Never take the risky route

 

[axlesandantennas]

You won't find in my post a declarative statement that I believe USGS maps provide 100% of everything, nor will anybody find I am recommending possession of all of the USGS quad sheets for DV whenever visiting. The point was, and is, that heading off into unknown territory without a good topographic map, a compass, and the skillset to use them is in and of itself inherently risky. When that additional inherent risk is weighed along with other risks and alternative risks, the map user can make more informed and better choices. I respectfully suggest it was possible to collect a lot of inference about the route with even a less detailed topographic map, such as the whole park topo available as a PDF. With it one can see the sinuous plan view of Willow Creek, the elevation drop down to Badwater Road, and the short horizontal distance between the pass and the valley floor, and conclude the route is difficult. With difficulty in mind, some might make other choices as to what to do, or not do.

No complete substitute--simple as that.

Foy

Oh, I was basically agreeing with you! 2+2 or 1+3. Same answer, just different view points.

 

[skyfree]

Another good tool to have is Gaia GPS on your phone. Yes, I know phones will run out of battery and screw you, but most people have them, and a few hours of learning can help you to have all the information you need on hand without carrying around paper maps, because let's face it -- 99.9% of people are not going to do this. I would imagine their phones were fully charged when they left the car.

For all of the places I visit in Death Valley, I create a small-ish area that still exceeds any possibility that I will leave that area, and download the Satellite with Labels, Base Map, and Nat Geo maps at the highest zoom levels. Then, I download the entire Death Valley area just with the base map. There is a limit of number of tiles you can download so you can't just download the satellite images for all of DV.

For my last trip I had about 10 such areas downloaded and it worked out really great finding campsites and staying out of trouble. The satellite images at highest zoom are not as good as Google satellite, but it's enough that you can picture deep canyons and cliffs (shadows) and get some idea of road quality. You can see buildings like old mine structures as an example.

Condolences to the family members and survivor. My wife gets super worried when I go out on my own and my worst nightmare is having her fears confirmed.

 

[AbleGuy]

I understand you need a cell signal today for these to work properly and transmit vids/pictures back to your base, but perhaps someday in the not too distant future we’ll be able to buy and carry lightweight tiny, palm sized camera drones to use to better scout the route ahead of us when in the wilds...ones that broadcast via sat feeds?

 

[billiebob]

As others have noted, it's telling that they found their disabled vehicle before they found the hikers. Stay with the vehicle - and if you must leave the vehicle, hike out on the road you came in on.

Yep, this. I have many friends with search and rescue, the over riding theme of advice, stay with the vehicle.
Or hike out the route you drove in on.
Pretty basic and simple.

Cannot count how often I have thought this out on a remote drive in the mountains.
I still have room to improve my communications, and threads like this motivate me to be sure they will find my corpse.

Even the complication of deviating from the plan left with freinds was not critical since the vehicle was found on day 2.
But going overland was not a good choice.