Salisbury/Dana help, please

[Snagger]

Hi folks, I'm after some advice please.

I removed the pinion flange on a Salisbury axle to replace the seal, but the alignment marks I made on the pinion and nut came off when I cleaned them up for reassembly. Obviously, I don't want to over-tighten the nut and increase the bearing preload.

Is there an easy way of setting the nut back at the correct preload without removing the diff carrier? Is it enough to just tighten the nut until all lateral movement in the pinion is gone? Can I just take the half shafts out and use a length of string wrapped round the pinion flange and a fisherman's spring balance to set the same preload as I have on another (seemingly good) part-stripped Salisbury?

Thanks for any advice.

 

[I Leak Oil]

You should have pulled the shafts and taken a reading with a torque wrench before you removed the pinion nut. It's not an ideal method as you're working against the carrier but it's good enough for reference. Where you're at now though, if it were me, I'd get a new crush sleeve and torque it to spec. (I forget what that is though).
My $.02

 

[revor]

No marks left...
I usually tighten them up to get about 15 to 18 pounds of preload with used bearings and a used crush sleeve. I've been doing it that way for years with Dana 60's (Ford w/crush sleave) and Salisbury's.

 

[Snagger]

The LR Workshop Manual states thata new crush tube will need about 250'lbs of torque on the pinion nut to start the crushing, with that force rapidly increasing as the tube shortens further. Would setting the nut's torque to about 80'lbs (about the same as a diesel head bolts) be appropriate? Since the crush tube has been pre-crushed to the correct length for the bearings and pinion, and since the manual seems to suggest that such low torque won't crush the tube further, so won't affect the preload, and 80'lbs should be enough to prevent it from undoing itself. Would that work, since I'm replacing only the seal?

 

[I Leak Oil]

You won't be able to tell where you are by measuring the torque on the nut with a used crush sleeve. If you're going to re-use the sleeve then Keith's method, which measures the torque required to turn the pinion, is more appropriate.
The only reason for the crush sleeve is to apply bearing preload, if it gets slightly compressed but your pre-load torque reading is still correct then you're all set. Compress it too much and you'll need a new one, too little and the pinion bearings will be too loose.

 

[Snagger]

The only reason for the crush sleeve is to apply bearing preload, if it gets slightly compressed but your pre-load torque reading is still correct then you're all set. Compress it too much and you'll need a new one, too little and the pinion bearings will be too loose.

I understand that, but since the crush tube has already been set during original assembly, then as long as the nut is tight, the bearing preload should be correct if the tube isn't crushed anymore unless the tube has a little bit of elasticity and has lengthened a little with the release of the comprtression from the nut. I just wonder how much change in length there may be from a tube that has been set for twenty years and over a hundred thousand miles.

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

Hey Nick,

On the subject of axles..... I wanted to post this to you in a PM, but it's limited to 1000words (nice.....) and I would have needed to sent 3 PM's then so I thought I'll do it this way... It's not some secret stuff that no-one else can read anyway:sombrero:..

I wrote this:


Hi Nick,

I had a look on your website (very interesting by the way) and found your reference to my RR axle swap

One contact (Koos, Expeditionportal.com) has used saddles of 1″ height between the top of the spring and the lowest part of the axle tube and finds he has just enough clearance. This is roughly twice the standard height of the stock Series saddles. His is the best set up I have seen for this, but he has used a standard chassis with 1-ton shackles to regain some of the height lost from the tall saddles, which also rotates the rear of the spring down, increasing the track rod clearance for the standard castor angle. He did not counter that effect when attaching his saddles, copying the angular relationship between saddle and swivel pins on the SIII axle to his his new RR axle, resulting in him getting a 5 degree castor angle (standard is 3 degrees) and heavier steering.

Cool! Nice to know I helped you a bit there .
One thing though is not entirely true. You mentioned I didn't take into account the with the longer shackles the rear of the spring would drop giving more track rod clearance but increased castor.
I gave it more castor on purpose. Because, having a bit more castor means the nose of the diff sits a bit lower. For me this was/is quite important as the oil filter of my Toyo engine sits right above the front propshaft. So having the diffnose somewhat lower resulted in more clearance between oil filter and propshaft.

I have now fitted rear springs on the front and moved the chassis bush to a point underneath the chassis in a bracket and using one-ton shackles. This gave exactly that problem with even more increased castor. The steering is really heavy now, directional stability is quite good though haha. Anyway, I'll be fitting Toyo axles soon and they don't have the diff pointing up so no more weird propshaft and castor angles. And as the front diff is an 8" high pinion unit the track rod sits higher up and should clear the leafsprings without any problems.

Something you could do:
If you find that your diffnose sticks up a bit too much (this will give driveline vibes in 4wd at higher speeds) you can tilt the axle backwards a bit to lower the diff and then you could drill new holes in the swivelball to rotate them back the right way to restore castor. This can be done to a certain amount, at one point you'll find the track-rod will hit the underside of the diff.

Hope this helps.

regards,

Koos

 

[Snagger]

Thanks, Koos. I didn't understand that the increased castor was deliberate, so I've changed that. As for the prop shaft vibration, I'll compare the UJ angles to those on my RR Classic and my friend's Defender; if they're similar, then I'll rotate the slip joint alignment to match. It now reads:

"One contact (Koos, Expeditionportal.com) has used saddles of 1" height between the top of the spring and the lowest part of the axle tube and finds he has just enough clearance. This is roughly twice the standard height of the stock Series saddles. His is the best set up I have seen for this, but he has used a standard chassis with 1-ton shackles to regain some of the height lost from the tall saddles, which also rotates the rear of the spring down, increasing the track rod clearance for the standard castor angle. He chose not to counter that effect when attaching his saddles, copying the angular relationship between saddle and swivel pins on the SIII axle to his his new RR axle in order to avoid prop shaft contact with his larger Toyota engine, resulting in him getting a 5 degree castor angle (standard is 3 degrees) and heavier steering."

 

[Toy-Roverlander]

Beautiful!

I forgot to mention that when in 2wd (when there's no power going to the front propshaft) there's no vibration. Even though you would say you would get vibration as the thing still rotates (no FWH obviously) but I don't feel anything. When I'm driving along and I put it in 4wd you instantly feel vibrations.

I noticed that on coilers the front prop is out of phase, it might help with vibrations if you copy this. After all, this is how LR apparantly 'fixed' it.

How are you going with the Sals axle? Got it back together again?

 

[Snagger]

Beautiful!

I forgot to mention that when in 2wd (when there's no power going to the front propshaft) there's no vibration. Even though you would say you would get vibration as the thing still rotates (no FWH obviously) but I don't feel anything. When I'm driving along and I put it in 4wd you instantly feel vibrations.

Glad you're happy with the correction.

The reason that you don't get vibration in 2wd is that the rear end of the prop is free to accelerate and decelerate every 90 degrees of rotation because the dog clutch is disengaged. Since I am now keeping the SIII transmission and selling on the LT77 and LT230 without fitting them, I will have that benefit too.

I noticed that on coilers the front prop is out of phase, it might help with vibrations if you copy this. After all, this is how LR apparantly 'fixed' it.

Yes, by phasing the UJs, the end flanges can be out of parallel. By comparing the UJ deflections on the 109 once the conversion is done to the UJs on my RRC and friend's 90, I'll be able to see if setting the phase to the same as on coil sprung models will be appropriate. There is a specific formula for calculating the phase angle, and I have a specialist prop shaft manufacturer less than 10 miles from me (Bailey Morris), so they should be able to advise me if required.

How are you going with the Sals axle? Got it back together again?

All I have done is refit the crush tube, bearing, oil thrower and new seal and then tighten the nut to 150'Lbs. There is no slack in the system but the pinion turns with a bit more force than on the the axle with the half shafts missing (that is to be expected since this axle is turning the hubs and drums). I'll remove the half shafts on this one to compare directly, but since I haven't altered the bearing or crush tube, and since the nut needed a lot less than 150'lbs to remove, I think it should be alright. I just don't have the kit to remove the diff carrier. I have opened the back for inspection, though, and apart from the slightest of chipping on the very edge of one crown tooth, it all looks great - the backlash is about 0.25mm, within the 0.17-0.27mm LR specify, and it all looks pretty clean.

The coiler suspension, damper and anti-roll bar brackets are all away, so I just need to cut the required brackets off that old SIII Salisbury axle for transfer and welding on the 110 axle. I have the calliper brackets for the disc conversion, and have secured a pair of Discovery hubs, discs and callipers, so the rear brakes will match the vehicle spec of the front axle.

 

[Snagger]

Well, I pulled the half shafts and tested the pinion preload with it driving the diff carrier only. It's exactly the same as on the other stripped axle (I suppose the gear ratio doesn't make much difference when there is no resistance from the hubs and road wheels). So, it would seem that using about 150'lbs on the main nut if you lose the markings works well enough.