Scout camper feel too heavy?

[wackyhacky76CO]

I agree with Shredgnar, have an Olympic on a 2019 Tundra 3” lift and airbags. I don't even notice it except for mpg. I have enjoyed it, been to Idaho and Montana From CO a few times. Did great on the long drives pulling a trailer with the toys. But I have been thinking about simplifying my set up lately to be able to use my truck again.

View attachment 804482

What kind of off roading have you done with it? Just fire road exploring or do you get into some rough stuff from time to time?

 

[rruff]

Just picked our Olympic up the other day and put it on a 2nd gen Tundra. 1275 lbs empty on the tag. E rated tires, Airbags, 3" lift. Drove great up I70 in CO. No problems, no swaying, etc. Got a little rocking forward and back on some weird pavement bumps on the highway.

Airbags add a pronounced increase in spring force deep in the travel that exponentially increases the more they are compressed. A speed sensitive damper (most common current shock technology) cannot deal with a positional increase in spring force without negatively affecting other types of inputs. They will hold the load statically but dynamically airbags are a mess - issues will be exacerbated under dynamic inputs such as dips, ledges, off road situations. Proper spring pack built for the weight is the option to consider.

The only weird motion I get on mine (pic in post #12) is a fore-aft bounce if waves/bumps on the road are in sync. To be fair, this also happened in stock configuration... and with upgraded shocks and tires on the empty truck. But it is worse now with the camper and airbags. I suspect it's a consequence of the rear part of the Tundra frame being flexy for articulation and compliance.

I'll be getting a spring pack upgrade soon instead of airbags, so I'll see if that helps.

 

[mark williamson]

Curious peoples opinions on theirs. Might put on a tundra, curious if it had that too heavy feel. Also curious what people liked and disliked. Thanks you all

Zach

I have a Kenai, pretty loaded with everything and roof nest on top. I have it on a Dodge 2500 with 3" lift, new springs, airbags et. al and it does feel top heavy to me. Not really on paved roads but on washboard or bumpy dirt roads.

 

[rruff]

^I'm curious what "feeling top heavy" even means? I can imagine lean in crosswinds or curves on the road, but offroad I guess it means you are driving on enough side slope that you worry it will tip over?

The side lean typically feels scary though, when it's only around half what it would take to tip. I guess a lift and compliant suspension would amplify the lean.

 

[jaywo]

I would definitely not put this on a Tundra even less so on a Tacoma as you will be over GVWR with gear, supplies and people. It's a legal liability and a risk for you and others (breaks are not dimensioned for such load).

What bothers me with all the overloaded overloading rigs you see everywhere is that it's not just a personal matter but it puts others at risk. Nobody want their family rear ended by an overloaded rig that could not stop in time.
It's a shame people put others at risk because they think it's okay to be 1000lbs over GVWR on a wrangler or tacoma.
How many Tacoma have I seen with FWC Fleet flatbeds? These are 1300lbs without option. 1500lbs optioned + hundreds of pounds of armor, bumpers, E rated 35in tires, gear and people means well over 2500lbs for a truck that has a 1150lb payload. Absolutely ridiculous.
I mean look at the screenshot attached. That guy's Tacoma was 4250lbs, and with just the camper and modifications it's 2200 lbs more at 6450lbs, WITHOUT gear and people and water. With 2 people and minimal gear he would be about 1500lbs over GVWR. That's obscene.

At 1300 lbs empty, you will easily be at or over 2000lbs loaded. This type of load reaches or exceeds payload of most Tundras available and would be much more suitable on a HD truck.

I have a light aluminum pop-up camper (GFC style) on a 2023 F-150 that is a third of the weight of that Scout, and fully loaded it significantly impacted handling in every way. I would never put a rig 3 times the weight on there.

 

[Gravelette]

It's not just Tacomas. A guy on a Frontier forum was showing off his 1500# pop up. Again, payload about 1100#.

 

[rruff]

Nobody want their family rear ended by an overloaded rig that could not stop in time.

Someday I'll probably get tired of pointing this out again... but the stopping distance of on road vehicles varies hugely by weight and contact patch assuming good dry pavement. All the big rigs and other trucks and RVs out there who have no qualms about tailgating you, have a long stopping distance and they are perfectly legal. Besides that, they handle like , and are more likely to kill someone if they get out of control. If you want to worry, worry about them. Your overloaded pickup will stop in a shorter distance unless you do something really stupid.

The law is "control your vehicle". If you collide with another vehicle because you didn't stop in time, it's your fault. Period. Leave enough space.

 

[rruff]

I have a light aluminum pop-up camper (GFC style) on a 2023 F-150 that is a third of the weight of that Scout, and fully loaded it significantly impacted handling in every way. I would never put a rig 3 times the weight on there.

Regarding the handling, do some sensible shock, spring, and tire upgrades if you'll be hauling a load regularly.

 

[jaywo]

Someday I'll probably get tired of pointing this out again... but the stopping distance of on road vehicles varies hugely by weight and contact patch assuming good dry pavement. All the big rigs and other trucks and RVs out there who have no qualms about tailgating you, have a long stopping distance and they are perfectly legal. Besides that, they handle like , and are more likely to kill someone if they get out of control. If you want to worry, worry about them. Your overloaded pickup will stop in a shorter distance unless you do something really stupid.

The law is "control your vehicle". If you collide with another vehicle because you didn't stop in time, it's your fault. Period. Leave enough space.

So because a semi truck is legal means it’s ok to drive a Tacoma 1500lbs over payload? If you apply this thinking for everything humanity is doomed, so thankfully not everyone thinks like you.

Also, more importantly, I have had way more overloaded offroad rigs tailgating me and going over 80, than semi trucks do.
Not surprisingly, someone who doesn’t care being illegal and overloaded often doesn’t care about driving slowly and giving other vehicles enough space.

Regarding the handling, do some sensible shock, spring, and tire upgrades if you'll be hauling a load regularly.

Yes I have upgraded shocks springs and tires already. My rig is fine and under gvwr loaded, but it’s just that it made me realize even under GVWR it’s far from ideal in stock form. Thus why I would never go much heavier than that. Even with upgraded suspension.

 

[jaywo]

It's not just Tacomas. A guy on a Frontier forum was showing off his 1500# pop up. Again, payload about 1100#.

Yep. And SUVs with tents too. Weight goes up way more quickly than one would think. I had a Bronco, and with 2 light people on board (wife is 110lbs), outdoor gear, food and water, and a light (114 lbs) roof top tent we were 50lbs under GVWR.
This is one of the reason we moved to a full size truck.

So when I see jeeps, broncos or others with a 250lbs metal rooftop tent, body armor, 37in tires and bumpers and 4 overweight people on board, I can’t imagine how over GVWR they are.

 

[rruff]

So because a semi truck is legal means it’s ok to drive a Tacoma 1500lbs over payload? If you apply this thinking for everything humanity is doomed, so thankfully not everyone thinks like you.

What "thinking" results in your judgement? The Tacoma stops quicker and is also much smaller, so how could it be a safety issue? GVWR is not a safety reg or a legal requirement for private use. It's a manufacturer warranty and liability number, based on the bone stock vehicle.

Also, more importantly, I have had way more overloaded offroad rigs tailgating me and going over 80, than semi trucks do.

I find that hard to believe. Where do you live? I don't go >80 often, but my experience of rigs dangerously close behind on the highway is at least 100 to 1 in favor of semis and other big trucks. They are so much more numerous.

 

[simple]

I think we established Canadians have a different set of rules and that engineers are mutants and most people cant wrap their head around them.

Side note. Lets talk about exploding Pintos.

 

[jaywo]

What "thinking" results in your judgement? The Tacoma stops quicker and is also much smaller, so how could it be a safety issue? GVWR is not a safety reg or a legal requirement for private use. It's a manufacturer warranty and liability number, based on the bone stock vehicle.


I find that hard to believe. Where do you live? I don't go >80 often, but my experience of rigs dangerously close behind on the highway is at least 100 to 1 in favor of semis and other big trucks. They are so much more numerous.

You justified that a semi is legal and has long stopping distance, so it’s not a problem to increase your vehicle stopping distance by a lot.

My thinking is that first, it’s not because something is legal means it’s a good idea to do it. If you apply this to everything you can justify many many stupids things.
Secondly, it’s not because there is a legal category of dangerous vehicles on the road that we should add to the problem.

People in this country always put the problem on others and don’t like to take responsibility.
It’s like people who don’t give a ******** about nature, pollute it, then say “the real problem is millionaires. They put so much CO2 in the atmosphere with their jets and they produce so much waste”. Ok so because a bunch of rich dudes pollute more than I do it’s okay for me to idle indefinitely and leave garbage on a campsite? That’s the same logic that you use with semi being on the road and your vehicle.

It’s not because other do something bad that it’s making it ok for you to do it.
Which I why I said if everyone applied that logic to everything, we would be doomed. This is such an individualist selfish way of living.

But this appart, if you cannot recognize that it is just a bad idea in general to load a rig much higher than its intended use, which is affecting your safety, safety of others, and longevity of your rig, it’s okay, we can just agree to disagree. Go tow a boat behind your overloaded rig, who am I to tell you anything after all.

 

[simple]

In that vain, everyone should take a physical like the FAA does for a pilots license along with a performance driving test, IQ and factor in standing on social media. The world isn't black and white and there are a lot of incompetent drivers on the road. Safety is relative and cant be isolated to a single variable like relative performance of a certain vehicle type. How about old pickup trucks with semi functional drum brakes on all the wheels? Should they be banned? Etc.

 

[Gravelette]

One thing I don't understand about overloading a truck is the "why." There are plenty of appropriate vehicles for any size camper.