Scratch Build Questions
- Thread starter nnnnnate
- Start date
GeoTracker90
Adventurer
GeoTracker90
Adventurer
GeoTracker90
Adventurer
GeoTracker90
Adventurer
I think you'll be just fine with this style of tongue, but I might be a little biased. If you're concerned about the joints, just take and add a fish plate along the outside of the frame at each location of a weld joint. Good luck with your build!
Mike
Mike
Stalled a little after messing up my knee playing church basketball but I hobbled around the garage yesterday on my day off and made some progress.
And a few of my novice welds. It took me a few passes to realize I needed to weld different on the vertical lines on the inside/outside of the frame. I had started welding from bottom to top but the bead kept falling off. I turned down the heat and speed one setting then welded top to bottom and was able to slow down and get a thicker bead. It also took me a few lines before I realized I should be starting my weld in or at the edge of my tack then continue to the next tack rather than starting and stopping short of it. First pic is my first "finish" weld on the trailer. I was pretty excited after finishing it and not having it be a total booger.
I'm going to be chopping down the wings. I didn't know how long the tongue was going to be so I just 45'ed the ends on these pieces and stuck them on the front. When I get my axle mocked up with the wheels/tires I'll trim them and the stick out from the bumper.
So I guess I'm wondering about what I should do with the over hang from the wings at the front of the tongue. You can see them in pic #2 if you look close. What I'm thinking is that I'll add the receiver tube then cut the wings flush, then add a thick-ish plate across the open area butted up to the receiver tube.
And a few of my novice welds. It took me a few passes to realize I needed to weld different on the vertical lines on the inside/outside of the frame. I had started welding from bottom to top but the bead kept falling off. I turned down the heat and speed one setting then welded top to bottom and was able to slow down and get a thicker bead. It also took me a few lines before I realized I should be starting my weld in or at the edge of my tack then continue to the next tack rather than starting and stopping short of it. First pic is my first "finish" weld on the trailer. I was pretty excited after finishing it and not having it be a total booger.
I'm going to be chopping down the wings. I didn't know how long the tongue was going to be so I just 45'ed the ends on these pieces and stuck them on the front. When I get my axle mocked up with the wheels/tires I'll trim them and the stick out from the bumper.
So I guess I'm wondering about what I should do with the over hang from the wings at the front of the tongue. You can see them in pic #2 if you look close. What I'm thinking is that I'll add the receiver tube then cut the wings flush, then add a thick-ish plate across the open area butted up to the receiver tube.
I guess one other thing I forgot to add was about figuring out the tongue length. From the receiver hitch on my Jeep to the edge of the body is 3'. To make sure I have enough clearance to jack-knife the trailer and not bust out my tail lights should I be measuring from the front of the tongue platform on the trailer or from the box?
From the box to front of the platform is about 29", should I be adding another 36" of receiver tube on the trailer for a total tongue length of about 6'. That seems pretty long to me. (If receiver tube wasn't so darn pricey I'd just buy 6' then chop it down to where I want it after welding it on the trailer.)
From the box to front of the platform is about 29", should I be adding another 36" of receiver tube on the trailer for a total tongue length of about 6'. That seems pretty long to me. (If receiver tube wasn't so darn pricey I'd just buy 6' then chop it down to where I want it after welding it on the trailer.)
Tongue length is another balancing act (literally in some cases). You might want enough room to make sure you can open the swing gate on your Jeep with the trailer attached. You might want to make sure you can jack knife without damaging corners. You might want to keep things short for technical trails. You might want to get the right length to keep tongue weight within 10-15% of trailer weight. You might want to make sure that distance from hitch to trailer axle equals wheelbase of the tow vehicle.
These are all things to think about, but in my humble little opinion the most important concern with regards to tongue length is load supportability. The material you use and the intended use (hard off-road vs. light trials) combined with max expected weight of the trailer should determine the max length of your tongue. If the max length isn't as long as you want, then you will either need to lighten the load or use stronger material.
Here is a page that I found on someone else's build thread on this site. I found it VERY useful. It explains a lot and has links to calculators. I used the "alternative version for Excel 97/03". You can play with numbers and variables until you find the balance that you want.
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http://www.angib.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/teardrop/tear84.htm
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-croix
These are all things to think about, but in my humble little opinion the most important concern with regards to tongue length is load supportability. The material you use and the intended use (hard off-road vs. light trials) combined with max expected weight of the trailer should determine the max length of your tongue. If the max length isn't as long as you want, then you will either need to lighten the load or use stronger material.
Here is a page that I found on someone else's build thread on this site. I found it VERY useful. It explains a lot and has links to calculators. I used the "alternative version for Excel 97/03". You can play with numbers and variables until you find the balance that you want.
.
http://www.angib.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/teardrop/tear84.htm
.
-croix
Thanks for the feedback croix.
I got a bit of work done this afternoon. I flipped the trailer over then chopped off a foot of the receiver tube before measuring and tacking it in place. Total length is 134" so just over 11'. After taking care of that I chopped down the front wings so they match the width on the back end. Then I started playing with the axle location.
I took the box and tongue deck length (103") and multiplied that by 65% to get 67". So to me that means from the front of the tongue deck measure back 67" and that is where the center of the axle should sit. (This puts it 36" from the rear of the trailer.) From there I measured out for the bracket hangers and marked where they should go. I bought the springs and all the hangers with the axle and was told that the perch centers needed to be 1" longer than the spring. After double checking all my measurements I clamped down the front hangers and measured to the front of the receiver tube and was off only 1/8" which I was happy about.
I was going to tack the hangers in place but while I was tacking the front receiver I ran out of welding wire so I'll need to get more of that tomorrow. I think I'm going to buy a "big" spool this time.
Finally, after doing all of this I looked to see what time it was and saw that I could make it to Discount Tire if I hurried. I loaded up the two tires and recently picked up from a club member and my two best spare rims and zipped over right before they closed. I'll pick them up on the way home from work tomorrow.
I got tracking for my spacers and they are supposed to be here tomorrow which is why I wanted to get the tires mounted. I should have all afternoon to work on the trailer and I expect I'll be able to have it rolling by this time tomorrow. I'm excited.
I got a bit of work done this afternoon. I flipped the trailer over then chopped off a foot of the receiver tube before measuring and tacking it in place. Total length is 134" so just over 11'. After taking care of that I chopped down the front wings so they match the width on the back end. Then I started playing with the axle location.
I took the box and tongue deck length (103") and multiplied that by 65% to get 67". So to me that means from the front of the tongue deck measure back 67" and that is where the center of the axle should sit. (This puts it 36" from the rear of the trailer.) From there I measured out for the bracket hangers and marked where they should go. I bought the springs and all the hangers with the axle and was told that the perch centers needed to be 1" longer than the spring. After double checking all my measurements I clamped down the front hangers and measured to the front of the receiver tube and was off only 1/8" which I was happy about.
I was going to tack the hangers in place but while I was tacking the front receiver I ran out of welding wire so I'll need to get more of that tomorrow. I think I'm going to buy a "big" spool this time.
Finally, after doing all of this I looked to see what time it was and saw that I could make it to Discount Tire if I hurried. I loaded up the two tires and recently picked up from a club member and my two best spare rims and zipped over right before they closed. I'll pick them up on the way home from work tomorrow.
I got tracking for my spacers and they are supposed to be here tomorrow which is why I wanted to get the tires mounted. I should have all afternoon to work on the trailer and I expect I'll be able to have it rolling by this time tomorrow. I'm excited.
Two steps forward three steps back. Its about time I had a big issue with this build, thats how I learn.
When I got home from work on Friday my spacers were sitting at the front door. I quickly opened them up and test fit them on the hubs to see if they cleared the hub center. Nope! I kind of expected that since while "working" I found a thread that said Spidertrax were going to have a center cutout that would be too small. It was an old thread and I was hoping that things may have changed but it hadn't. The hub would fit the spacer about half way before the center of the spacer closed in and wouldn't let the hub center pass.
I had already planned to have a friend help drill out my receiver tube so I cut off the tack welds on that and cleaned it up before throwing it all in my Jeep to skip over to his place. He was playing in the shop already and I'm certain I interrupted some pretty serious man work that was going on. Despite me not knowing anything about what needed to be done he helped drill the tube for me and I asked about what I had found with the spacers. He told me to bring them in and we'd throw them on the lathe which is what happened. As he was doing the lathe thing I was thinking about television from my formidable years and felt like grunting a la Tim "the toolman" Taylor but refrained. We chatted for a few minutes after getting the spacers finished and I asked some stupid questions that only a new guy would ask but he was great about giving me advice. We also talked about where I had chosen to place my axle and I decided to move it back a bit more. I had measured from the back to the front of the tongue deck but decided to alter that to measure to the front of the box.
When I got home I was excited to mock up everything to see how it all fit together. I quickly re-measured the receiver tube and tacked that into place before moving on to the axle placement. Without going to the garage to check, the axle moved back about 9" after changing the load measurements. I got the perches tacked and the springs attached then the axle loosely u-bolted to the springs. I still haven't put together the hubs but I wanted to see how the spacing was so I bolted the spacer to a hub then to one of the tires and lifted it up to the spindle. I slid the tire/spacer/hub assembly all the way on the axle and thought everything was great. Then I looked at it from the side to check clearance from the tire to the frame. There was a little, mainly though because the bolt heads were contacting the tire. No bueno.
So the axle is too narrow. I guess I'm not too surprised now two days later that I think about it. I confused myself and checked my numbers several times before I ordered the axle but its still wrong. I need to double check against the order sheet that the numbers match the order but I'm pretty sure it was made as ordered.
After talking to a couple guys yesterday about this while out playing Saturday these are the options that best fit my trailer goals:
1- Order a new axle. Pro: I should be able to order it right this time, no additional work needed from me. Con: $$$
2- Lengthen the axle. Pro: some work but not a ton, much cheaper than buying a new axle. Con: not confident I could do this myself, have to cut the perches off and re-weld.
3- Chop the frame. Pro: cheap, I can do this myself, Con: time to get it done, lose box width, need to cut spring perches off and move.
I'm leaning toward option 3 because I can do it myself and I have plenty of time on my hands. I need to do some more measurements but I'm thinking I need to narrow the frame by about 4" total.
If anyone has made it this far I appreciate any feedback on my conundrum. I'll try and get some pictures up a little later.
When I got home from work on Friday my spacers were sitting at the front door. I quickly opened them up and test fit them on the hubs to see if they cleared the hub center. Nope! I kind of expected that since while "working" I found a thread that said Spidertrax were going to have a center cutout that would be too small. It was an old thread and I was hoping that things may have changed but it hadn't. The hub would fit the spacer about half way before the center of the spacer closed in and wouldn't let the hub center pass.
I had already planned to have a friend help drill out my receiver tube so I cut off the tack welds on that and cleaned it up before throwing it all in my Jeep to skip over to his place. He was playing in the shop already and I'm certain I interrupted some pretty serious man work that was going on. Despite me not knowing anything about what needed to be done he helped drill the tube for me and I asked about what I had found with the spacers. He told me to bring them in and we'd throw them on the lathe which is what happened. As he was doing the lathe thing I was thinking about television from my formidable years and felt like grunting a la Tim "the toolman" Taylor but refrained. We chatted for a few minutes after getting the spacers finished and I asked some stupid questions that only a new guy would ask but he was great about giving me advice. We also talked about where I had chosen to place my axle and I decided to move it back a bit more. I had measured from the back to the front of the tongue deck but decided to alter that to measure to the front of the box.
When I got home I was excited to mock up everything to see how it all fit together. I quickly re-measured the receiver tube and tacked that into place before moving on to the axle placement. Without going to the garage to check, the axle moved back about 9" after changing the load measurements. I got the perches tacked and the springs attached then the axle loosely u-bolted to the springs. I still haven't put together the hubs but I wanted to see how the spacing was so I bolted the spacer to a hub then to one of the tires and lifted it up to the spindle. I slid the tire/spacer/hub assembly all the way on the axle and thought everything was great. Then I looked at it from the side to check clearance from the tire to the frame. There was a little, mainly though because the bolt heads were contacting the tire. No bueno.
So the axle is too narrow. I guess I'm not too surprised now two days later that I think about it. I confused myself and checked my numbers several times before I ordered the axle but its still wrong. I need to double check against the order sheet that the numbers match the order but I'm pretty sure it was made as ordered.
After talking to a couple guys yesterday about this while out playing Saturday these are the options that best fit my trailer goals:
1- Order a new axle. Pro: I should be able to order it right this time, no additional work needed from me. Con: $$$
2- Lengthen the axle. Pro: some work but not a ton, much cheaper than buying a new axle. Con: not confident I could do this myself, have to cut the perches off and re-weld.
3- Chop the frame. Pro: cheap, I can do this myself, Con: time to get it done, lose box width, need to cut spring perches off and move.
I'm leaning toward option 3 because I can do it myself and I have plenty of time on my hands. I need to do some more measurements but I'm thinking I need to narrow the frame by about 4" total.
If anyone has made it this far I appreciate any feedback on my conundrum. I'll try and get some pictures up a little later.
First one is with just one spacer.
Second one is with two of the 1.75" spacers. There is a tape measure in there that shows there is just over an inch clearance from the tire to the frame I'm leaning towards either chopping the frame 5" or extending the axle the same distance. Still working on that one though.
Second one is with two of the 1.75" spacers. There is a tape measure in there that shows there is just over an inch clearance from the tire to the frame I'm leaning towards either chopping the frame 5" or extending the axle the same distance. Still working on that one though.
Gonna be used for yard stuff and camping gear. I've talked more about the axle thing with a buddy and he makes extending it sound like a pretty easy ordeal. As of now I'm going to see if I can chop the axle in half tonight and source some DOM tomorrow. We'll see if I chicken out.
Outer dimension of the trailer frame is 48" now so a piece of plywood isn't going to fit anyway.
Outer dimension of the trailer frame is 48" now so a piece of plywood isn't going to fit anyway.