Screwing around with a Eurovan!

[Cole]

Ever have one of those brilliant moments where you realize you're an idiot?

After having everything including the diodes tested in the alternator again this morning by the alternator shop something dawned one me about one of my tests.

My 20 year old test light was broken so I splurged the other day mid testing and bought a new one in a rush for $6 at the auto parts store. I used it to test and try to excite the alternator into action with no luck.

Anyone want to guess why it didn't work?








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It dawned on me this morning that the new test light is probably an LED inside instead of an incandescent bulb and won't provide enough resistance to "excite" the alternator. Went home and made a new exciter wire bypass out of an old KLR650 license plate light( who needs those on a KLR anyway?) Well, this time it worked. Alternator started putting out 13.6v. Sill not the 14.4 I would like to see but it was a major step in the right direction.

The wire harness plastic cover from the alternator to the battery area has been taped up with electrical tape in the past. So obviously someone has been in there for some reason. Not sure what they did yet. I'm guessing some sort of bypass. I may even be connected to the 12v power outlet circuit I mentioned earlier. Which would explain why it doesn't work if this circuit is grounding somewhere. What I don't get yet is why the dash light works exactly like it should. Guess I will find out when I tear the harness apart to try to fix this right. I the mean time I may bypass it myself to a different circuit to make the van usable.

 

[Snowgeek135]

Oh the ever evasive electrical problems.... Wish I could help. Good luck!

 

[Cole]

Yeah, I hate electrical issues.

The silly thingis that it may be related to the horn circuit and the steering wheel swap.....long story.....maybe I'll post details later.

 

[Larry]

Great thread with lots of tedious work! Never knew I liked VW Eurovans until I got hooked into reading the past 4 pages. Man those VR6 engines are odd looking. I couldn't help to Google them to read up on them. WOW, quite the neat little engine....the VW 12 cylinder is even more interesting to look at. One of those would be really fun in a Eurovan.

Nice work and congrats on the new daughter! :sombrero: We have a new daughter due to arrive within the next month as well. Our first human baby (we’ve had lots of dog babies :elkgrin.

 

[Cole]

I'm seriously about to toss this whole van in the trash. I can't even begin to explain how frustrated I have become with this electrical issue, that makes the van undriveable!!

I would be open to ANY ideas.

Here is the current list of facts.

-Alternator has been tested 3 times now. Twice by an alternator shop that has been in business for over 40 year! (so please quit sending me emails or comments about "how or who tested the alternator" ) They have checked EVERY function of the alternator and it tests GOOD!! 14.4 volts even under load!

Despite being good the first time I put a brand new voltage regulator (includes new brushes) in. Still tests good!

-Alternator won't charge in the car. Period. It only ever shows batter voltage. For a brief moment I could kick start it with a test light but that no longer works.

-Battery light has always functioned normally. (lights with the key then shuts off after starting the car) until today. I tried jumping 12v to the blue exciter wire which must of done something. Since now I get a steady battery light with the blue exciter wire hooked up, but the light functions normally with the exciter wire unplugged from the alternator. Which seem to make no sense.

I've started each day with a fully charged battery. Charge it with my Battery Tender until the light is green. Battery is new and tests good.

 

[mgmetalworks]

I'm just throwing this out there because you asked for "ANY" ideas...

I worked in a street rod shop in college and we had a baffling electrical gremlin with a customer's car that stumped a whole bunch of people. We had trouble with the starter at the most inopportune times (like during the judging at a huge car show). We had a number of new starters in and out of that car. Solenoids, switches, relays, fuses...we were even trying to figure out how to rewire the car without disassembling the whole thing. It was a mess and the customer wasn't all that excited about an undriveable car he just waited two years for.

Then this ol' timer was in the shop listening to the boss complain about the problem and he said that if it were him, he'd start by redoing all the grounds. We checked and rechecked every single ground and found nothing out of the ordinary. Then as this ol' guy is looking at the car while we are rushing to get it fixed, he says "I only see one tiny ground strap on the engine...you gotta ground the engine to the body better than that".

Sure enough... we added a couple more ground straps from the engine to the chassis and body and our problem went away. Since those college days, I've had two other experiences with grounding straps and funky electrical systems. Replaced the worn/broken straps and my issues went away.

When you swapped in this new engine, did you hook up any grounding straps? Its an easy thing to overlook, believe me.

MG

 

[Cole]

Thanks. Forgot to mention that the very first thing I did was re-clean every ground and add a battery cable directly from the battery ground to the alternator mounting bolt to make sure it had a good ground. This engine is (of course) totally oil and dirt free at this point. There is zero corrosion on any connection, anywhere.

I'm just throwing this out there because you asked for "ANY" ideas...

I worked in a street rod shop in college and we had a baffling electrical gremlin with a customer's car that stumped a whole bunch of people. We had trouble with the starter at the most inopportune times (like during the judging at a huge car show). We had a number of new starters in and out of that car. Solenoids, switches, relays, fuses...we were even trying to figure out how to rewire the car without disassembling the whole thing. It was a mess and the customer wasn't all that excited about an undriveable car he just waited two years for.

Then this ol' timer was in the shop listening to the boss complain about the problem and he said that if it were him, he'd start by redoing all the grounds. We checked and rechecked every single ground and found nothing out of the ordinary. Then as this ol' guy is looking at the car while we are rushing to get it fixed, he says "I only see one tiny ground strap on the engine...you gotta ground the engine to the body better than that".

Sure enough... we added a couple more ground straps from the engine to the chassis and body and our problem went away. Since those college days, I've had two other experiences with grounding straps and funky electrical systems. Replaced the worn/broken straps and my issues went away.

When you swapped in this new engine, did you hook up any grounding straps? Its an easy thing to overlook, believe me.

MG

 

[mgmetalworks]

Grounding between the engine and the body/chassis is every bit as important. Its not enough to just ground the battery to the engine block.

 

[Cole]

Grounding between the engine and the body/chassis is every bit as important. Its not enough to just ground the battery to the engine block.

EVERY ground mount(engine, block, chassis) and wire was ground clean with a 2" sanding disc before the brand new engine was installed. There is no way there is a bad ground under this hood. :coffeedrink:

When measuring voltage AT THE ALTERNATOR all I get is the battery voltage. This is not a case of bad grounds and the voltage not getting out.

I also have no proof the charging system worked before the engine swap.

 

[Cole]

One of the issues I've been having is that various places(in the rest of the world but not the USA vans) refer to an alternator exciter circuit relay. They say it is in "Position 53" The positions labeled on schematics and under the relays themselves don't go as high as 53, the relays themselves are labeled "53". Look at the picture and you can see why this hasn't been helpful so far.:Wow1:

 

[mgmetalworks]

I'm not trying to armchair quarterback your build, I just want to help... So just to be sure, you specifically have the engine block grounded to the chassis with the typical braided grounding straps (a quick search shows that there are at least two on a Eurovan...tranny to body/chassis and top of block to body/chassis)? I believe you when you say that all of the grounds are good, I just want to be sure you have all of the grounds you need.

 

[Cole]

I'm not trying to armchair quarterback your build, I just want to help... So just to be sure, you specifically have the engine block grounded to the chassis with the typical braided grounding straps (a quick search shows that there are at least two on a Eurovan...tranny to body/chassis and top of block to body/chassis)? I believe you when you say that all of the grounds are good, I just want to be sure you have all of the grounds you need.

Yes and no. VW uses an eye bolt style ground strap that is covered in a rubber housing to protect it from corrosion(except where it mounts of course). There are two of those. Perfectly clean and tight. I also have a battery cable type running from the alternator bracket to the chassis ground nearest to the battery which is also bolted down with the battery ground itself.

 

[mgmetalworks]

Ok, good.

You said before you didn't have a factory wiring diagram? I see one on ebay now for a '00-'01 for $69 (I'm not familiar enough with the Eurovan to know which years are similar, not sure this would work for you or not).

 

[Cole]

So after having the alternator tested 3 times, once by a auto parts store and TWICE BY AN ALTERNATOR SPECIALIST (and requesting to test the diodes at the Alternator specialist) I've discovered new information.

I tore the entire dash apart last night and tested EVERY wire in the alternator circuit, all good!

Took the van over to Advanced Auto parts again to have them test the battery (tests good, again), then he ran a charge system test on it and came up with a bad diode in the alternator....****** !**!!!*!*!*!*!*.... Talk about a crappy *** job at the alternator shop!!!!!!

GRRRRR......time to just pony up the $450 and buy a new alternator and hope it cures this fiasco!!!

On an unrelated note. I seem to be collecting tires and wheels for the Eurovan. It now has 3 sets....and maybe a 4th.....just need to decide which ones I like and sell the rest. The deals were just too good to pass up.

 

[Cole]

Okay....a little update.


I found a 120 Amp alternator for a 12v VR6 used on Craigslist. The guy wanted $80.....and we settled on $50!......

The van had been charging fine at highway speeds so I figured I would drive it the 20 miles of freeway to go pick up the alternator. FAIL.....I made it to about 2 miles from the guys house and was all out of battery power....dead on the side of the freeway with cars passing by at 80 mph. DOH!!

Luckily, the guy was nice enough to run the alternator out to me, where I swapped it on the side of the road. Its a bit ridiculous that I can do 10min roadside alternator changes at this point....ugh....I gave the guy $60 total for being a sport and rescuing me. That is the 3rd time this van has stranded me so far.....DOH!

It cured the issue!!!!!! I'm not even going to get into how frustrating it is to think "I should replace this alternator while I have the motor out" then find out that it is $500 and nearly impossible to get. So I have it tested and it tests "good".....3X.....by "experts"!!!!? Ugh....


Technically I still don't have the right one in this van since this one is a 120 amp and my stock one is a 150 amp. Since I have it running at the moment that will buy me some time to order a custom 200 amp version!! HA!

In the meantime I decided it would be good to add a house battery to this van since it did not come with one. Today was just finding a spot to mount it and running some wires. This is in the back next to the AC unit. The stock location under the drivers seat is now too short since I added a seat swivel to it. Won't fit under the hood due to ABS brakes. I'm off in a few minutes to find a proper battery box to mount this in.

Today this is just wired in parallel with the stock battery so that they will both charge. Later today or tomorrow I will start to wire all the power outlets and house lighting to the house battery and isolate it from the chassis battery.

Something like this.

Eventually adding Solar to it something like this.

Pictures stolen from this thread.
How to make a cheap isolated dual battery setup