Searching for a mid-size DD for girlfriend

[calicamper]

Just out of curiosity, I have your experiences been with 3. O Liter,, or the 22re? the 3.0 v6 was a whack job. I would never challenge that. the worst motor Toyota ever put out. but I would stick to my guns on the 4 cylinder . I have buddies of mine just shy of 300,000 miles, with nothing but the routine maintainence.

Yep had the basket case 3L v6 toyota pile of steaming junk also. There shouldn't be any of those around anymore unless the owners have been keeping them stored or some junk yard guy is dragging them back out and selling them due to the high used car values out there today. Pile of complete garbage avoid the 3L V6!

 

[calicamper]

Well, my girlfriend has fallen in love with my full sized bronco and wants to get a comparable vehicle for herself. We've been mainly looking at Rangers and Bronco II's, but I was wondering what else would be good for her. I'm very familiar with Ford trucks/SUVs so that is what we were aiming for, but I'm also open to other makes and models provided they fit the following criteria.

1. Easy to fix. I can't be waiting months for a part to show up from over seas. Or have to tear down the engine just to replace a fan belt. She's also wanting to learn how to take care of it, so "easy to clean, easy to use" is the name of the game.

2. Durable. I can't afford to be fixing this thing every weekend only to have it break for something else the next day. And by break, I mean becoming completely immobile. Not like a roof light going out or a minor oil leak. Minor fixes aren't a big deal for me. I'm a tinkerer by hobby so I kind of enjoy that after a fashion, but my girlfriend needs to be able to fix it when I'm not there, so no major engine rebuilds please.

3. Good mileage. My girlfriend can't afford a gas guzzling full size like my bronco so we're looking to get at least 15-20 mpg for her ride. This will be her DD so it doesn't need to be a power house. We'd settle for something with a 4 banger engine so long as it fits the other criteria.

4. Cheap: We have a very small budget to get her going. It doesn't have to be a perfectly preserved truck. Just no rust holes in the floor/doors/body would suffice. This will be her "learner vehicle" so we can expect some damage to accrue from her inexperience. It does need to be solid.

I realize I'm asking to have my cake and eat it too after a fashion, but I'm just listing what really matters to us in terms of vehicle capability.

So what are your recommendations and why you'd recommend them? When we go to check the vehicle you recommend, what should we keep an eye out for?

My Girl friend in college had a Bronco II I had the Ranger XLT both had the same engine Mitsubishi 2.9L V6. The main bearing gets sloppy and starts failing around 200K. Great engine other wise I doubt you could find any of those today unless grandpa had it and parked it in the garage for 18yrs and never drove it. My standard cab short bed 2wd ranger got 17-20mpg and the girl friends Bronco II did about the same. They weren't mileage kings in any form. I put 100K on mine bought it with 100k on it the main bearing on the engine was getting noisy and sloppy when I sold it for $1500. The guy knew the whole deal and still wanted it the body was super clean. Girlfriends Bronco II the main bearing failed at 230K while driving back to Michigan for College her dad found a wrecked one with low miles and put the newer engine in it. She had it another 6yrs when that engine also lost the main bearing and bit the dust. She replaced it with a toyota Corolla

My dads 99 exploder has 240,000 miles on the 4L v6 the whole truck is about to collapse into a cloud of dust but it still runs. Its an AT too!

Anything Toyota you pay a premium price for the name. Money Money Money it all comes down to your budget. Sounds to me like she needs to be less picky and get a vehicle thats in the best shape possible for the budget.

 

[AFBronco235]

My Girl friend in college had a Bronco II I had the Ranger XLT both had the same engine Mitsubishi 2.9L V6. The main bearing gets sloppy and starts failing around 200K. Great engine other wise I doubt you could find any of those today unless grandpa had it and parked it in the garage for 18yrs and never drove it. My standard cab short bed 2wd ranger got 17-20mpg and the girl friends Bronco II did about the same. They weren't mileage kings in any form. I put 100K on mine bought it with 100k on it the main bearing on the engine was getting noisy and sloppy when I sold it for $1500. The guy knew the whole deal and still wanted it the body was super clean. Girlfriends Bronco II the main bearing failed at 230K while driving back to Michigan for College her dad found a wrecked one with low miles and put the newer engine in it. She had it another 6yrs when that engine also lost the main bearing and bit the dust. She replaced it with a toyota Corolla

My dads 99 exploder has 240,000 miles on the 4L v6 the whole truck is about to collapse into a cloud of dust but it still runs. Its an AT too!

Anything Toyota you pay a premium price for the name. Money Money Money it all comes down to your budget. Sounds to me like she needs to be less picky and get a vehicle thats in the best shape possible for the budget.

Keep in mind that I'm a mechanic and have access to a professional shop, so replacing a main bearing isn't over my head. I should also point out that with the way the roads here in Oklahoma are maintained, driving something with off road durability is a smart choice. I've been on dirt trails smoother than some of the highways around here! If we can get her an easy to maintain Ford, that would be perfect. Our problem is that people around here seem to think that titles are optional and retitling a vehicle is stupidly expensive and time consuming. Every time I find a good potential rig, it has a missing title. I'll never understand how you can loose something like that! (Okay, end of rant.)

I'll definitely keep that in mind with the V6 rangers and broncos. If all it is a main bearing, I can fix it.

 

[SDDiver5]

Regarding your search; How far have you searched? Might be fun for you two to get a one way ticket a few states away and buy the truck you choose and drive it back? That should give you more options obviously.

 

[AFBronco235]

Regarding your search; How far have you searched? Might be fun for you two to get a one way ticket a few states away and buy the truck you choose and drive it back? That should give you more options obviously.

We don't want to commit to buying a vehicle before we've been able to see it and judge for ourselves its actual condition and then be forced to drive it back and fix it as we go. We're not in any particular hurry so we can kind of afford to be picky about this. We're trying to stay within an hour or two of where we live.

 

[CJustin7]

"Searching for a mid-size DD for girlfriend"

So requirements..... Has to be mid sized..... Has to have Double D's
I also would like a Girlfriend who fits these requirements.
:sombrero:

 

[4x4junkie]

Just out of curiosity, I have your experiences been with 3. O Liter,, or the 22re? the 3.0 v6 was a whack job. I would never challenge that. the worst motor Toyota ever put out. but I would stick to my guns on the 4 cylinder . I have buddies of mine just shy of 300,000 miles, with nothing but the routine maintainence.

The '89 I have here is a 3.0L. The engine on this particular truck has actually been fine, most of it's issues have centered around the accessory drive items I mentioned & wiring (intermittent lights/gauges, etc.).
My friends' were a mix of both engines. One had his engine rebuilt 3 times because it spun a bearing at 80K miles, and then subsequently couldn't keep head gaskets in it for the next 5K (indeed it was a 3.0L). Again, it wasn't just the engine though... The transmission had a couple issues, front IFS axle problems galore (busted parts, wouldn't keep alignment), wires in the steering column that fatigued and broke where the tilt column flexes, blower fan quit, engine stalling because a terminal on the ignition module corroded (bad water seal around the plug or something), it just went on & on & on & on with this truck.
Two other buddies' trucks were the 22REs. I don't recall too many issues with the engines other than one was a chronic oil-burner (even after a rebuild) but again it was the other stuff (birfields, steering arm, one lost a transmission, power steering leaks, wiring, axle knuckle-ball leaks that repeated attempts to fix kept failing... I think one had wiper problems too at one point, I seem to recall something in the linkage broke).

My Fords have had their share of issues too, but not like this.

My Girl friend in college had a Bronco II I had the Ranger XLT both had the same engine Mitsubishi 2.9L V6. The main bearing gets sloppy and starts failing around 200K. Great engine other wise I doubt you could find any of those today unless grandpa had it and parked it in the garage for 18yrs and never drove it. My standard cab short bed 2wd ranger got 17-20mpg and the girl friends Bronco II did about the same. They weren't mileage kings in any form. I put 100K on mine bought it with 100k on it the main bearing on the engine was getting noisy and sloppy when I sold it for $1500. The guy knew the whole deal and still wanted it the body was super clean. Girlfriends Bronco II the main bearing failed at 230K while driving back to Michigan for College her dad found a wrecked one with low miles and put the newer engine in it. She had it another 6yrs when that engine also lost the main bearing and bit the dust. She replaced it with a toyota Corolla

My dads 99 exploder has 240,000 miles on the 4L v6 the whole truck is about to collapse into a cloud of dust but it still runs. Its an AT too!

Anything Toyota you pay a premium price for the name. Money Money Money it all comes down to your budget. Sounds to me like she needs to be less picky and get a vehicle thats in the best shape possible for the budget.

The 2.9L was produced by Ford in Cologne Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine

I don't know of this "main bearing" is you speak of (never heard that one before), what the 2.9s were known for was head cracking (almost always a result of overheating the engine, which it didn't take much... one stuck thermostat could do it). Their bottom ends however are bulletproof just like many Toyota fans will swear a 22RE is. You keep on top of the cooling system and they typically go 300K+, just like the 4.0L that evolved from it (it should also be noted the 4.0L heads were much less prone to cracking, making a 4.0L that much more solid of a design).

 

[calicamper]

The '89 I have here is a 3.0L. The engine on this particular truck has actually been fine, most of it's issues have centered around the accessory drive items I mentioned & wiring (intermittent lights/gauges, etc.).
My friends' were a mix of both engines. One had his engine rebuilt 3 times because it spun a bearing at 80K miles, and then subsequently couldn't keep head gaskets in it for the next 5K (indeed it was a 3.0L). Again, it wasn't just the engine though... The transmission had a couple issues, front IFS axle problems galore (busted parts, wouldn't keep alignment), wires in the steering column that fatigued and broke where the tilt column flexes, blower fan quit, engine stalling because a terminal on the ignition module corroded (bad water seal around the plug or something), it just went on & on & on & on with this truck.
Two other buddies' trucks were the 22REs. I don't recall too many issues with the engines other than one was a chronic oil-burner (even after a rebuild) but again it was the other stuff (birfields, steering arm, one lost a transmission, power steering leaks, wiring, axle knuckle-ball leaks that repeated attempts to fix kept failing... I think one had wiper problems too at one point, I seem to recall something in the linkage broke).

My Fords have had their share of issues too, but not like this.



The 2.9L was produced by Ford in Cologne Germany.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Cologne_V6_engine

I don't know of this "main bearing" is you speak of (never heard that one before), what the 2.9s were known for was head cracking (almost always a result of overheating the engine, which it didn't take much... one stuck thermostat could do it). Their bottom ends however are bulletproof just like many Toyota fans will swear a 22RE is. You keep on top of the cooling system and they typically go 300K+, just like the 4.0L that evolved from it (it should also be noted the 4.0L heads were much less prone to cracking, making a 4.0L that much more solid of a design).

All i can say is the few parts I replaced were mitsubishi stamped right out of the ford wrapper. When the girlfriend blew up the main bearing we looked into a new engine and the order was through mitsubishi but we found a clean wrecked one and went that route. All the folks I know with them had main bearing failures 200-240k. These were late 80's very early 90's not the early to mid 80's different engine in those.

 

[mallthus]

I've thought about the smaller Suzuki rigs too. My gf likes the look and size, but are they any good reliability wise or am I better off with something a bit bigger?

They can be pretty damn reliable. They tend to be more primitive than competitors' vehicles of the same year. That didn't help them sell when new, but it's a good thing if you're looking for stupid simple in a used rig.

Build up options are fewer and more expensive, but that doesn't seem to be a big short term goal. Older ones like the Sidekick had a mechanical twin, the Geo Tracker, which means that even weird trim parts can be found at the local GM dealer.

One downside with newer Suzukis is that they tended to be bought and owned by people that gravitated to Suzuki because of price. That means they may not have gotten all the regular maintenance they should have. Just be on the lookout for that...it's certainly not a universal.

 

[mallthus]

My Girl friend in college had a Bronco II I had the Ranger XLT both had the same engine Mitsubishi 2.9L V6.

The only Mitsubishi engine that ever came in a Bronco II or Ranger was the 2.3l diesel.

As others have pointed out, the 2.9l V6 was a German made Ford engine.

 

[4x4junkie]

All i can say is the few parts I replaced were mitsubishi stamped right out of the ford wrapper. When the girlfriend blew up the main bearing we looked into a new engine and the order was through mitsubishi but we found a clean wrecked one and went that route. All the folks I know with them had main bearing failures 200-240k. These were late 80's very early 90's not the early to mid 80's different engine in those.

You must be speaking not of the engine, but of the FM146 transmission... As that is the only Mitsubishi-made part on a 2.9L vehicle (and indeed it is known for bearing issues, which was why I chose to swap mine for the much-better Mazda-made M5OD when one of it's bearings started to make some noise).

 

[AFBronco235]

You must be speaking not of the engine, but of the FM146 transmission... As that is the only Mitsubishi-made part on a 2.9L vehicle (and indeed it is known for bearing issues, which was why I chose to swap mine for the much-better Mazda-made M5OD when one of it's bearings started to make some noise).

I didn't think the M5OD was used in the ranger/bronco lines? I thought it was only for full sized trucks, usually the F250/350?

 

[4x4junkie]

The M5OD-R1 was put in 4-cyl Rangers from '88-'11, all 3.0L & 4.0L V6 trucks (Ranger and Explorer), and most (if not all) '88-'90 2WD 2.9L Rangers.
There was also an occasional M5OD to be found in 4WD 1990 2.9L Rangers and BIIs, though this seems to be a 1990-only thing (reverting back to the FM146 for '91-'92 2.9L 4WDs). Of these, only the 2.9L and 4.0L share a bellhousing pattern and are swappable with each other (though the 4.0L got a different set of gear ratios, which it is common due to the rarity of 2.9L M5ODs to take the gears from a 3.0L or 2.3L M5OD and swap them into a 4.0L case for a bit better launch and/or offroad ability).

The M5OD-R2 (a close variant of the R1, but not exactly the same) was used in many 300I6 and 302V8 F-150s and Broncos (and maybe some F-250s?), but I'm not aware of it's use at all in F-350s (F-350s usually got the ZF trans).

 

[AFBronco235]

The M5OD-R1 was put in 4-cyl Rangers from '88-'11, all 3.0L & 4.0L V6 trucks (Ranger and Explorer), and most (if not all) '88-'90 2WD 2.9L Rangers.
There was also an occasional M5OD to be found in 4WD 1990 2.9L Rangers and BIIs, though this seems to be a 1990-only thing (reverting back to the FM146 for '91-'92 2.9L 4WDs). Of these, only the 2.9L and 4.0L share a bellhousing pattern and are swappable with each other (though the 4.0L got a different set of gear ratios, which it is common due to the rarity of 2.9L M5ODs to take the gears from a 3.0L or 2.3L M5OD and swap them into a 4.0L case for a bit better launch and/or offroad ability).

The M5OD-R2 (a close variant of the R1, but not exactly the same) was used in many 300I6 and 302V8 F-150s and Broncos (and maybe some F-250s?), but I'm not aware of it's use at all in F-350s (F-350s usually got the ZF trans).

That's right. I keep getting the M5OD and the ZF5 mixed up. I'd still put either one in my Bronco though.

 

[underdrive]

The M5OD-R2 (a close variant of the R1, but not exactly the same) was used in many 300I6 and 302V8 F-150s and Broncos (and maybe some F-250s?), but I'm not aware of it's use at all in F-350s (F-350s usually got the ZF trans).

Correct, the R2 was available in low-GVW F250s, those with the C-clipped Sterling rear axle. Said trucks usually got the 300 and 302 engines as well. I have seen only one 351 with a R2 behind it, no telling if that was a conversion though. Most 351s turned full-float Sterling rear axles via a ZF5 transmission, those were the F250HD of their times.

That's right. I keep getting the M5OD and the ZF5 mixed up. I'd still put either one in my Bronco though.

The R2 has taller 1st gear than the gasoline (big-block version included) ZF5, the R2 is a close-ratio transmission and the ZF is a wide-ratio one. The diesel ZF5 has similar ratios to the R2, but it can only be used behind a diesel engine. The R2 is more user-friendly on pavement and shifts more or less like a car, the gas-geared ZF is very nice off road but is definitely a "truck" transmission by the feel of it.