Seitz windows in campers

[JRhetts]

In several threads I have encountered discussions and speculations about windows, including the Seitz ones. They are acrylic dual pane, imported by Dometic.

Like all the others, there are all kinds of plusses and minuses to the Seitz windows. We have had them in two vehicles, logging nearly 80,000 miles in 5 years, and we will have them in our next vehicle which is under construction (due to leave for Honduras in March.)

I thought I'd summarize our actual experience:

They seal well when closed; they provide very good insulation in very cold weather (-10°F and lower); and the design of the fly-screen/curtain is very flexible in terms of privacy and letting air in.

They do scratch, but I have several times very easily polished out MANY scratches - including some VERY deep ones from trees, cactus, etc. The best product I have found is Novus, a 2 stage set of compounds (#2 & #3). In an hour I can polish 4 windows back to truly new appearance.

The biggest two negatives to me have been:
i) connecting the screen to the curtain on the longer [48"] windows; this requires connecting two rather than only one catch; it requires two hands and is a nuisance, tho it certainly works.
ii) WORST: The screen material permits way too many bugs to enter; the mesh is too coarse to keep no-see-ems out and the sides are not secured (they run in a loose channel which the bugs - esp. moths - can easily circumvent).

 

[skysix]

WORST: The screen material permits way too many bugs to enter; the mesh is too coarse to keep no-see-ems out and the sides are not secured (they run in a loose channel which the bugs - esp. moths - can easily circumvent).

Do you think it would be possible to replace the screen with a useful size mesh and rework the channels to make them a snugger fit, possibly with wider channel sides

I realise I am likely talking about essentially taking things apart, modifying them and rebuilding the assembly... but if possible likely to happen before Seitz would do a redesign

 

[ersatzknarf]

Thanks for posting about this.
I am in the process of ordering windows and was concerned about the scratch issue, figuring we were stuck with that - very glad to hear it can be dealt with.
The screen issues were something that was not known, however.
Did you have a work-around for that or modify them, as skysix asked ?

I am sure folks are interested to hear about your new vehicle ! ! !





Frank

 

[FusoFG]

They do scratch, but I have several times very easily polished out MANY scratches - including some VERY deep ones from trees, cactus, etc. The best product I have found is Novus, a 2 stage set of compounds (#2 & #3). In an hour I can polish 4 windows back to truly new appearance.

The biggest two negatives to me have been:
) WORST: The screen material permits way too many bugs to enter; the mesh is too coarse to keep no-see-ems out and the sides are not secured (they run in a loose channel which the bugs - esp. moths - can easily circumvent).

Thanks for the tip about polishing, we've come too closs to trees many times.

understand your issue with the screens. I don't think the screen are the problem, it's slots on the frames. The bugs can go right around the roller and come in the slots.

We glued a strip of " No see um Screen" on the inside of the slots and no more problem.

If you still have trouble there is a bug repellent you can spray on the screens that was available in Florida.

 

[dzzz]

I have wondered about polishing scratches and if the windows are coated. It's great that polish works.

 

[JRhetts]

Yes, the polish works really well. Follow the directions and the scratches, even very deep ones, disappear.

And yes, the slots in the frame on top and bottom are part of the insect problem. Interior light streams right thru them and attracts many insects to them and the interior. So, we used white vinyl tape to seal them, and this helped. But...

The mesh itself and the width of the side channels have seemed to us to be the major sources of the unwanted intrusions.

Mesh: I have taken an entire window out and after pretty careful inspection I cannot see a good way to replace the existing mesh. The roller mechanism does not seem to be designed to be replaceable, or even removable. And - so far - Dometic has been unresponsive to requests for help.

Channels: I have not been able to devise a way to reduce the channels or increase the thickness of the mesh so that insects cannot simply go around the sides of the mesh. When the screen is set in place, one could stuff a piece of weather stripping into the channel to block the bugs, but then every time you want to adjust the shade for privacy, you have to remove the foam strip and you get a burst of bugs into the vehicle.

I made no-see-em mesh panels that snapped onto the walls at each corner to provide a secondary cover for the windows, and this helped, but the very smallest bugs and moths were able to still get in.

I tried a magnetic strip on the mesh and the exterior window frame, forming a true seal all the way around the window. This worked well, but the magnetic strip was not really strong enough and soon the mesh would not adhere well enough to the side, so that went bye-bye.

In our new vehicle we will have both slider and swing-out windows, and I am now playing with various designs to see what could do the job. Any suggestions?

 

[ExpoMike]

Another idea is to change all your interior lights to LED's. These do not attract bugs like other lights. Added bonus is the low current draw.

 

[skysix]

Another idea is to change all your interior lights to LED's. These do not attract bugs like other lights.

Hmmm- interesting. I wonder why. Have to try this summer...

 

[JRhetts]

Another idea is to change all your interior lights to LED's. These do not attract bugs like other lights. ...

Not to be argumentative, but all our lights (interior and exterior) are LEDs, and we still attract bugs. Since LEDs are being increasingly engineered to resemble daylight and incandescent light in their spectrum, I'm not sure how they would attract bugs less?

 

[ersatzknarf]

How about using velcro as the attachment all the way around the window for secondary screens, rather than snaps or a magnetic strip ? ECR built a Dormobile for a customer and made screens like that so that the front doors' windows could be opened for ventilation, yet keep the bugs out...

As for Dometic being less than helpful, been there, too

It's too bad Seitz cannot be contacted directly ?

If the windows for the new vehicle have not yet been purchased, there is another German company that makes windows and Soenke recommended them as being much better, but I do not know about their screens : http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=361381&postcount=80

Hope this helps.


Frank

I made no-see-em mesh panels that snapped onto the walls at each corner to provide a secondary cover for the windows, and this helped, but the very smallest bugs and moths were able to still get in.

I tried a magnetic strip on the mesh and the exterior window frame, forming a true seal all the way around the window. This worked well, but the magnetic strip was not really strong enough and soon the mesh would not adhere well enough to the side, so that went bye-bye.

In our new vehicle we will have both slider and swing-out windows, and I am now playing with various designs to see what could do the job. Any suggestions?

 

[JRhetts]

How about using velcro as the attachment all the way around the window for secondary screens, rather than snaps or a magnetic strip ?... Frank

This is in fact my fall-back plan. The shortcomings are:
a) If the screen + velcro are on the inside, then any adjustment to the window [privacy/open-close] must involve removal of the fine-mesh-screen, and lots of bugs will get in.
b) If the screen is on the outside, then (i) whether it is a slider or a swing-out, one must go outside and put up a ladder to get at the screen to install or remove it, and (ii) if it is a swing out window, then the shape of the screen is really very complex to sew together. [I made three for our previous rig and they were a *&^%$!!.]

 

[ersatzknarf]

Understood.

Does the (inside) fine-mesh-screen need to be completely removed to make adjustments to the window shade ? The nice thing about the velcro is that it can be pulled back as far as needed... Someone also mentioned spraying the screen ? Perhaps the area to be pulled back could be sprayed, then the adjustments performed quickly ?

Yes, outside screens would be less than practical...

This is in fact my fall-back plan. The shortcomings are:
a) If the screen + velcro are on the inside, then any adjustment to the window [privacy/open-close] must involve removal of the fine-mesh-screen, and lots of bugs will get in.
b) If the screen is on the outside, then (i) whether it is a slider or a swing-out, one must go outside and put up a ladder to get at the screen to install or remove it, and (ii) if it is a swing out window, then the shape of the screen is really very complex to sew together. [I made three for our previous rig and they were a *&^%$!!.]

 

[JRhetts]

...Does the (inside) fine-mesh-screen need to be completely removed to make adjustments to the window shade?...

Essentially, yes. The controls for privacy adjustment are in the middle of the window, so whether you are adjusting up or down you need to get your hand fully inside the secondary screen. And, if you want to close the window, you have to disengage the junction of primary screen & curtain, then operate the window itself. So.... Yes, for all practical purposes.

 

[ExpoMike]

Not to be argumentative, but all our lights (interior and exterior) are LEDs, and we still attract bugs. Since LEDs are being increasingly engineered to resemble daylight and incandescent light in their spectrum, I'm not sure how they would attract bugs less?

This is what was noticed when I was camping during the Overland Journal trailer testing. Mario from Adventure Trailers had told us about this and sure enough, no bugs would be around the lights on their trailer.

It was something to due with the wave length of light output of LED's that did not attract bugs but you are right, with LED's now being made to resemble daylight, it might not hold as true as it once did.

 

[JRhetts]

Thanks, Mike!