Setting the SWR

DaveInDenver

Middle Income Semi-Redneck
I pick THIS Answer....!
I am not saying that an end fed 1/2λ is some magical antenna that escapes the laws of physics, it's just that the return currents work differently with them. There are reasons why they are used on marine antennas, for example. You can think of the ground plane as zero extent or infinite extent, but the coax should definitely not be acting like part of the antenna. The return currents are coupling back through the matching network most likely.

This is not to say that it will not benefit from a ground plane and certainly the radiation pattern will be affected by its height above a ground. But they do radiate without a set of ground radials or a plane.
 
S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
Personally, I prefer Wilson antennas. And I use a Wilson 1000 Mag Mount.



Although, the Firestik website has a ton of great info. So check it out when you have CB Radio Questions.

http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs.htm



The first bit of good info.....

http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs/SWRLOSS.htm

POWER LOSS AT VARIOUS SWR
READINGS AND RESIDUAL POWER
Compliments of Firestik® Antenna Company Technical Support Team


SWR (Standing Wave Ratio) affects the power output of your radio. The following table shows the effect of SWR for a transmitter with 4 watts of transmitted power.

* ERP = Percentage of Effective Radiated Power

SWR READING % OF LOSS ERP* WATTS AVAILABLE

1.0:1 0.0% 100.0% 4.00
1.1:1 0.2% 99.8% 3.99
1.2:1 0.8% 99.2% 3.97
1.3:1 1.7% 98.3% 3.93
1.4:1 2.8% 97.2% 3.89
1.5:1 4.0% 96.0% 3.84
1.6:1 5.3% 94.7% 3.79
1.7:1 6.7% 93.3% 3.73
1.8:1 8.2% 91.8% 3.67
2.0:1 11.1% 88.9% 3.56
2.2:1 14.1% 85.9% 3.44
2.4:1 17.0% 83.0% 3.32
2.6:1 19.8% 80.2% 3.21
3.0:1 25.0% 75.0% 3.00
4.0:1 36.0% 64.0% 2.56
5.0:1 44.4% 55.6% 2.22
6.0:1 51.0% 49.0% 1.96
7.0:1 56.3% 43.8% 1.75
8.0:1 60.5% 39.5% 1.58
9.0:1 64.0% 36.0% 1.44
10.0:1 66.9% 33.1% 1.32




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S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
DO I NEED A NO-GROUND-PLANE ANTENNA?


http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs/GP-or-NGP.htm


DO I NEED A NO-GROUND-PLANE ANTENNA?
Compliments of Firestik® Antenna Company Technical Support Team


"No-Ground-Plane antenna systems have a very specific purpose. They should be the system of choice when you have no other choice. When your vehicle has little or no metallic surface area for the antenna to use as its NEEDED counterpoise your decision process should be;

1. I just won't have a CB in my vehicle.
2. I will use a ground plane (GP) system and suffer the possible consequences.
3. I will use a no-ground-plane (NGP) system and be able to use my CB.

In short, the NGP system (we call it a system because the antenna and coaxial cable are a matched set that may not be interchanged with other non-Firestik NGP antennas and coax assemblies) is a problem solver. If your vehicle does not provide sufficient ground plane for a regular GP antenna, the NGP system will solve the problem. Who should use an NGP system? Here are some probabilities. Those with ...

* Fiberglass or plastic vehicles
* Hot air balloons
* Wilderness back pack frames
* Fiberglass pick-up bed caps
* Aluminum and/or fiberglass boats and canoes
* Aluminum and/or fiberglass cab-over campers (antenna on camper)
* Aluminum and/or fiberglass travel trailers

The NGP systems are not "required" on metal vehicles. They will work but in most cases you are better off using a GP set-up if you have the reflective metal surface available. The ground wave field strength of a GP antenna on a metallic surface is about 15% stronger than a NGP system on the same vehicle in the same location. This is directly due to the way that the radio's power is delivered to the antenna via the special cable. There is some energy absorption within the cable assembly. However, and again we stress the specific purpose of the NGP system, it is better to have some energy absorbed in the cable assembly than it is to have no communications, or very poor performance with a GP set-up.

If your vehicle fits one of the above mentioned profiles and you are doing the first install, you should think of using an NGP system. Furthermore, if your vehicle fits the profile and you already have a disappointing performing antenna, you are a prime candidate for a change. Do keep in mind that the NGP antenna system will not fix the problems that are due to poor installation locations. That is, if you've mounted a GP antenna in a manner that prevents it from radiating energy into free space (usually shows up as an unmanageable SWR problem), the NGP antenna will fail as well.

As with most matters involving communications, we try to lay down some basic rules to help you before you get into too much trouble. While theory is okay for grasping a basic concept, if you let it give you tunnel vision you will probably run into a problem from time to time. We like a foundation of theory but cannot ignore over 30 years of actual experience in matters involving CB communications. Accordingly, we know there are exceptions to everything we write and say. But, when we write we need to aim the content towards the majority. It is beyond our capacity to write installation guidelines for every vehicle on the road and every possible location that an antenna could be mounted on the vehicle. For instance, on some fiberglass motorhomes with a steel substructure it is possible to tap into the underlying structure and get a GP antenna to work just fine. Likewise, many Corvette owners have attached a long mounting bracket to the right-rear frame and the good chassis ground allows the use of a regular GP antenna set-up. But, how do you explain to someone who just spent half a day routing cables and installing mounts that their problem is due to insufficient ground plane and they need to tear the whole thing apart and start all over.

There are some things you can do before you get too involved in the installation. First of all, find the metal. A one foot square chunk of metal on the roof of a motorhome falls under the catagory of "lack of sufficient ground plane mass". Every antenna has a somewhat different requirement. But if you don't have at least 9 square feet of metal (3ft x 3ft), don't even fool with a GP set-up. And if you do have sufficient metal mass, make ABSOLUTELY sure that your antenna mount is grounded to the vehicle in some manner, if not directly then with a short grounding braid or wire (minimum of 12 gauge). The fact that the coax cable may be grounded at the radio connection is NOT sufficient and does not exempt you from having a good chassis ground on the mount of a GP set-up. If you mount a GP set-up on an insulated roof rack, ladder, or spare tire rack (most of which have no or intermittent grounding), metal vehicle or not, you must run a ground from the vehicle to the mount. If you aren't sure what to do, you should find someone who can give you some help. Worse case, if you have a GP set-up and are wondering if it will work, than do a temporary installation. That is, put the mount in the area that you plan to make a permanent installation, ground the mount, route the coax from the mount to the radio through a window or door and do a SWR check. This could save you a lot of trouble and keep you from yanking us from your Christmas card list.

And last but not least, regardless of the antenna system selected, ALL transmitting antennas MUST be TUNED in their final mounting location. We thought that we would be able to stop mentioning this fact around 1978, but there isn't a week that goes by that someone doesn't says "Huh!" when we ask them if the antenna was tuned. Not tuning your antenna is the same as not putting air in your tires after they are installed. A tire without air is a flat … an antenna without tuning is a stick."


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S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
CAB-OVER-CAMPERS ON PICK-UP'S......


http://www.firestik.com/Tech_Docs/Cab-over.htm


CAB-OVER-CAMPERS ON PICK-UP'S
Compliments of Firestik® Antenna Company Technical Support Team



Cab-over-campers used on pick-ups with mirror mounted CB antennas can create performance problems. In many instances the antennas were originally mounted when a smaller camper was being used or when the cab-over-camper was sitting on its stilts in the back yard. After installation the antennas were tuned and everything was fine. However, after the cab-over-camper is mounted you may notice a loss of performance. And, if you rechecked SWR you might be surprised to see that it is in the unacceptable range.

SINGLE ANTENNA INSTALLATIONS

Regardless of left or right side installation, when the antenna is on the mirror and the camper is removed, the antenna is far enough away from the vehicle body and high enough to keep the highly active upper portion of the antenna in free space. But, as soon as you install the camper, the upper potion of the antenna is too low and too close to the camper. In best cases, SWR will be between 2.0:1 and 2.5:1 and you will notice poor performance and dead spots towards the non-antenna side of the vehicle. In severe cases the SWR could reach a critical ratio (indicates that high amounts of radiated energy is reflecting back into the transmitter) and the radio could be damaged. In any case, the antenna needs to be relocated. There are three possible solutions.

Use a hood channel mount (i.e. our SS-174 or SS-184) and mount the antenna along the forward half of the hood channel, preferably on the drivers side.
Install a second antenna system on the camper (i.e. FG2 or FG3-648 no-ground -plane kit) and connect it to the radio when the camper is being used.
Don't use the CB while the camper is being used.
DUAL (CO-PHASED) ANTENNA INSTALLATIONS

Co-phased antennas rely on each other to reflect the transmitted energy. In order for co-phased antennas to work with any amount of efficiency, the antennas MUST have clear, unobstructed line-of-sight between one another. That just can't happen with antennas on the mirrors and a cab-over-camper in place. If you insist on having dual antennas you will need to mount them on the camper (and loose the use of them when the camper is off), have a set of dual antenna on the camper and on the truck, use dual hood channel mounts on the forward half of the vehicle hood, go to a single hood channel mount on the forward half of the vehicle hood, or create a double usage system of dual and single antenna installations.

In any case, do not ignore the potential problems created by a large cab-over-camper. Whenever you change the surroundings in the antennas near field of radiation you must check to see if those changes affect the system SWR. And don't forget that if the antenna was tuned with the camper in place, you should also recheck it after the camper has been removed. In these on-again, off-again situations we highly recommend using our tunable tip antennas. With the antenna tuned under one set of conditions (i.e. with the camper off) you can measure the tuning screw height and save the dimension. When you return the antenna to that particular location after the originally tuned condition is repeated you can easily set the tuning tip to its proper height. That will save you from having to re-measuring SWR each time you make a change.


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Lone Bear

New member
Whoa,
I asked for help and got more than I expected. I'm in no position to be able too have it tuned properly before I leave. (Buying an SWR meter) The radio has one built in so I'll have to go by it for now. I shall go and get a 6" spring before I leave on this coming Friday. I just think this forum is awesome there is so much knowledge out there. And being able to tap into it has made a world of difference for myself and I'm sure many others. So with that I thank you all for you generosity in helping me with my situations. :bowdown:
 

Lone Bear

New member
Here's the pic of the antenna mount and of the mounting bracket that I bought off eBay and then had to modify because it wouldn't work.
 

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S

Scenic WonderRunner

Guest
Something to consider, with your antenna running all the way up the side of your camper.


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http://www.signalengineering.com/ultimate/mobile_antennas.html


Radiation Pattern of Mobile Antennas

Most people think that antennas mounted on vehicles are omnidirectional. This is mostly true, but the radiation pattern is influenced greatly by the body of the vehicle. Remember we stated that the body acts as the "radials" for the antenna? Well, we know that the body does not extend around the base on the antenna equally. Figure 2 shows how the radiation pattern of a whip is influenced by the body of the vehicle. As you can see, the shape of the pattern depends on where you mount the antenna. The pattern is "pulled" to areas where there is the most vehicle body. The pattern is the worst in directions where there is no metal body for a radial.

mobile_pattern.jpg
 

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