Shachagra- Family of 5 traveles Europe and Turkey, International 7500
- Thread starter shachagra
- Start date
Mc Taco
American Adventurist
A vehicle that goes on an expedition. Meaning that it takes you there and back again. Safely and with a modicum of comfort.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
Doug,
Congratulations on a fantastic life choice and especially on the irreplaceable and invaluable experience you have provided for your children.
Your build is both amazing and extraordinary, in the truest sense of the words.
Thank you for sharing the build and your experiences with the community.
RE: your truck in South America
In general, South America is comparable to Turkey in terms of development. Countries such as Chile and Argentina are "done" while some highland areas of Peru and countries such as Bolivia are still being developed. The major cities offer everything you'd expect to find in Tampa or Istanbul. The rural areas can be fully mechanized, such as a field in Germany, or still manually farmed, like some places close to Iran or Armenia. The interesting sites and places have all had tourists coming there for many, many years (sometimes centuries), so there is tourist infrastructure around the major attractions. At the same time, there are vast areas with little to no infrastructure of any kind.
You've got plenty of capacities for where you are going. Keep your tanks topped off in Patagonia. Make sure you've got all new or nearly new tires before you enter Patagonia along with two new, mounted spares. Your tire size is common on commercial trucks, so you won't have any trouble buying tires in cities and major market towns. Make certain that you have the equipment and knowledge to change multiple tires while all alone in a very remote region. In the dark. In the rain. In gale-force winds.
I haven't seen (or I missed it) any mention of an air compressor. You will want to deflate some for the days/weeks-long stretches of washboard in Patagonia. (They were beginning to pave Ruta 40 while we were there, so this may be less of an issue now. Check here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/ and here: http://advrider.com/ for the latest status.
You will need to modify your drivetrain to run on non-ULSD. Since this is a commercial truck that you can order from the factory for overseas use, your manufacturer or dealer may be able to help you on this if you certify you are taking the truck out of the country. More info here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/25516-World-Travel-The-Fuel-Challenge
You'll be fine in Patagonia. You'll be fine on the market town roads, where, as you've noted, the trucks go. You will face some limits on a few inter-village roads, where the chicken buses go, because you are taller, heavier and your track is wider than the chicken buses. You will face some challenges in some areas with bridges, again due to weight and track width. (The smallest roads and their bridges are optimized for a HiLux; the chicken bus roads are optimized for the chicken buses, which are built on medium duty truck chassis such as a Fuso FE; the market town roads are optimized for medium duty straight trucks; the inter-city roads are optimized for semis and large trucks such as yours.)
There are few to no ring roads or bypass routes around small and medium cities and essentially none around market towns. The route goes through the market town, almost always right down into the plaza, and out the other side. Consequently, you will be fine in any market town that has a through route to the next market town, but may face challenges if the market town is the end of the truck supply chain and only chicken bus roads radiate onward.
You will not find clearly labeled bypass routes for low bridges, narrow streets, etc. You are very much on your own for routing. The people in small villages and rural areas generally only know the routes the chicken bus runs, so the best you can expect from them is directions to your destination via the chicken bus route, which may be much longer than optimum routing and very indirect in nature.
There is no regional standard for vehicle height, nor any national standards, that I am aware of (although I'd be surprised if Chile didn't have one). We were 12 feet high. It would be a good idea to make a 14 foot high section of 1" PVC that you could assemble to check obstruction heights. You will probably find wires strung across streets in market towns and villages that may be issues. I made a label for the inside of our windshield showing our width and height so we always had something to reference against if there was a height or width restriction on a bridge, etc. It was Steph's job to monitor that, and I'd regularly quiz her in the early weeks of our journey. You'd think those dimensions would be burned into your brain, but in the heat of the moment, it really helps to have them staring back at you.
You will discover that the interesting places in the world are connected by market town roads. You will also find that it makes zero sense to risk your home on an unknown route, tiny two-track or crumbling shelf road. Simply park your truck and rent a local HiLux or burro to explore or get out to the ruins.
It would be a very good idea for you to install a Euro truck tow bar and a pintle. Where you will be going with your truck there is always another truck coming along and that is the only way they will be able to pull you out.
The road quality will vary from euro-quality freeways to way, way beyond anything you were on in Eastern Turkey (we've been in both places, so I don't say that lightly).
You will use the scooter a lot, mostly for running into the nearest village to buy pan.
You will never find a tomato that tastes like they do in Turkey and the Middle East. However, you will find dozens to scores to hundreds of different types of potatoes.
Your travel in South America will be gated by the wet season in the Amazon basin and winter in Patagonia. Plan for those carefully.
If you are like us, you will spend a lot of time between 12,000 and 16,000 feet (very interesting people and fauna up there). You may experience some drivetrain anomalies at those altitudes, so check with the factory on high altitude utilization prior to departure.
It took us longer to build our truck than planned, so we did not go through Central America. If you are shipping direct, your best shipping routes will probably be Houston to Cartegena or Jacksonville to a high volume port in Brazil or Argentina. More info on shipping here: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/index-presentations.htm
Comprehensive vehicle insurance is available through AIG. If you know anybody in the UK, you can obtain coverage from Lloyds by using their address. We did not use K&R insurance in South America. Unless you plan extensive solo exploration of the rural areas of Columbia or known-to-be-bad-areas-to-avoid elsewhere, I don't think you'd need it. You will need some inoculations and medevac insurance is a very good idea.
There are more than 1,500 waypoints for South America here: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/index-gpssawaypoints.htm You will probably fit in any waypoint that is coded DH or SS.
Don't hesitate to email me for further questions.
Chicken bus road bridge. Note how this bridge is constructed; its main supports are matched to the track width of our Fuso, which is a very common bus chassis in that part of the world (pure serendipity, we didn't plan this). Track width will be important on chicken bus roads and other places that are optimized for local vehicles, e.g. salt flats (we know people with big trucks who broke through in both examples).
Why it's worth going:
Doug
Congratulations on a fantastic life choice and especially on the irreplaceable and invaluable experience you have provided for your children.
Your build is both amazing and extraordinary, in the truest sense of the words.
Thank you for sharing the build and your experiences with the community.
RE: your truck in South America
In general, South America is comparable to Turkey in terms of development. Countries such as Chile and Argentina are "done" while some highland areas of Peru and countries such as Bolivia are still being developed. The major cities offer everything you'd expect to find in Tampa or Istanbul. The rural areas can be fully mechanized, such as a field in Germany, or still manually farmed, like some places close to Iran or Armenia. The interesting sites and places have all had tourists coming there for many, many years (sometimes centuries), so there is tourist infrastructure around the major attractions. At the same time, there are vast areas with little to no infrastructure of any kind.
You've got plenty of capacities for where you are going. Keep your tanks topped off in Patagonia. Make sure you've got all new or nearly new tires before you enter Patagonia along with two new, mounted spares. Your tire size is common on commercial trucks, so you won't have any trouble buying tires in cities and major market towns. Make certain that you have the equipment and knowledge to change multiple tires while all alone in a very remote region. In the dark. In the rain. In gale-force winds.
I haven't seen (or I missed it) any mention of an air compressor. You will want to deflate some for the days/weeks-long stretches of washboard in Patagonia. (They were beginning to pave Ruta 40 while we were there, so this may be less of an issue now. Check here: http://www.horizonsunlimited.com/hubb/ and here: http://advrider.com/ for the latest status.
You will need to modify your drivetrain to run on non-ULSD. Since this is a commercial truck that you can order from the factory for overseas use, your manufacturer or dealer may be able to help you on this if you certify you are taking the truck out of the country. More info here: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/25516-World-Travel-The-Fuel-Challenge
You'll be fine in Patagonia. You'll be fine on the market town roads, where, as you've noted, the trucks go. You will face some limits on a few inter-village roads, where the chicken buses go, because you are taller, heavier and your track is wider than the chicken buses. You will face some challenges in some areas with bridges, again due to weight and track width. (The smallest roads and their bridges are optimized for a HiLux; the chicken bus roads are optimized for the chicken buses, which are built on medium duty truck chassis such as a Fuso FE; the market town roads are optimized for medium duty straight trucks; the inter-city roads are optimized for semis and large trucks such as yours.)
There are few to no ring roads or bypass routes around small and medium cities and essentially none around market towns. The route goes through the market town, almost always right down into the plaza, and out the other side. Consequently, you will be fine in any market town that has a through route to the next market town, but may face challenges if the market town is the end of the truck supply chain and only chicken bus roads radiate onward.
You will not find clearly labeled bypass routes for low bridges, narrow streets, etc. You are very much on your own for routing. The people in small villages and rural areas generally only know the routes the chicken bus runs, so the best you can expect from them is directions to your destination via the chicken bus route, which may be much longer than optimum routing and very indirect in nature.
There is no regional standard for vehicle height, nor any national standards, that I am aware of (although I'd be surprised if Chile didn't have one). We were 12 feet high. It would be a good idea to make a 14 foot high section of 1" PVC that you could assemble to check obstruction heights. You will probably find wires strung across streets in market towns and villages that may be issues. I made a label for the inside of our windshield showing our width and height so we always had something to reference against if there was a height or width restriction on a bridge, etc. It was Steph's job to monitor that, and I'd regularly quiz her in the early weeks of our journey. You'd think those dimensions would be burned into your brain, but in the heat of the moment, it really helps to have them staring back at you.
You will discover that the interesting places in the world are connected by market town roads. You will also find that it makes zero sense to risk your home on an unknown route, tiny two-track or crumbling shelf road. Simply park your truck and rent a local HiLux or burro to explore or get out to the ruins.
It would be a very good idea for you to install a Euro truck tow bar and a pintle. Where you will be going with your truck there is always another truck coming along and that is the only way they will be able to pull you out.
The road quality will vary from euro-quality freeways to way, way beyond anything you were on in Eastern Turkey (we've been in both places, so I don't say that lightly).
You will use the scooter a lot, mostly for running into the nearest village to buy pan.
You will never find a tomato that tastes like they do in Turkey and the Middle East. However, you will find dozens to scores to hundreds of different types of potatoes.
Your travel in South America will be gated by the wet season in the Amazon basin and winter in Patagonia. Plan for those carefully.
If you are like us, you will spend a lot of time between 12,000 and 16,000 feet (very interesting people and fauna up there). You may experience some drivetrain anomalies at those altitudes, so check with the factory on high altitude utilization prior to departure.
It took us longer to build our truck than planned, so we did not go through Central America. If you are shipping direct, your best shipping routes will probably be Houston to Cartegena or Jacksonville to a high volume port in Brazil or Argentina. More info on shipping here: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/index-presentations.htm
Comprehensive vehicle insurance is available through AIG. If you know anybody in the UK, you can obtain coverage from Lloyds by using their address. We did not use K&R insurance in South America. Unless you plan extensive solo exploration of the rural areas of Columbia or known-to-be-bad-areas-to-avoid elsewhere, I don't think you'd need it. You will need some inoculations and medevac insurance is a very good idea.
There are more than 1,500 waypoints for South America here: http://www.hackneys.com/travel/index-gpssawaypoints.htm You will probably fit in any waypoint that is coded DH or SS.
Don't hesitate to email me for further questions.
Chicken bus road bridge. Note how this bridge is constructed; its main supports are matched to the track width of our Fuso, which is a very common bus chassis in that part of the world (pure serendipity, we didn't plan this). Track width will be important on chicken bus roads and other places that are optimized for local vehicles, e.g. salt flats (we know people with big trucks who broke through in both examples).
Why it's worth going:
Doug
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DiploStrat
Expedition Leader
If Shachagra isn't an "expedition vehicle," I don't know what is. I DO know that 4x4 does not an expedition vehicle make.
You will love Latin America.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
This is a slide from one of our presentations:
Most of the people who are out exploring the world in a vehicle are using a 2wd van or small European 2wd RV.
Your truck (and Jay & Alice's Ecoroamer and the various giant Euro Unicats/Mogs/Etc.) is at one end of the spectrum.
The people we met in a 2CV in the middle of nowhere in Patagonia are at the other end of the four wheel spectrum.
Our bike, fully loaded for unsupported travel in a developing economy, is at one end of the powered two wheeled spectrum.
The guys we met on scooters are at the other end of the powered two wheel spectrum.
The couple traveling by tractor and wagon are somewhere on the eight wheel spectrum.
The guy and his hand truck in the middle of nowhere in Patagonia is on his own spectrum.
An expedition vehicle is simply what gets you there. Back is optional.
It's not about the bike. It's not about the truck. It's not about the stuff. It's about the experiences.
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Overland Hadley
on a journey
Just as everyones expedition is different, each persons vehicle needs are different.
Personally my vehicle needs to:
-travel comfortably at highway speeds
-get decent fuel economy
-travel across rough terrain without getting damaged
-provide a living space that I find comfortable
-and it needs to be something that I can afford to make a reality, not just a dream for the future.
Personally my vehicle needs to:
-travel comfortably at highway speeds
-get decent fuel economy
-travel across rough terrain without getting damaged
-provide a living space that I find comfortable
-and it needs to be something that I can afford to make a reality, not just a dream for the future.
An expedition vehicle is simply what gets you there. Back is optional.
It's not about the bike. It's not about the truck. It's not about the stuff. It's about the experiences.[/QUOTE]
That is great! I appreciate the sentiment- we always had the trip as the priority, not the truck!
It's not about the bike. It's not about the truck. It's not about the stuff. It's about the experiences.[/QUOTE]
That is great! I appreciate the sentiment- we always had the trip as the priority, not the truck!
Shachagra in South America
Doug- thanks so much for the info on South America. To be honest, after our trip I was too exhausted to think optimistically about a south american trip, but that is changin quick. Thanks for the tips on a trip south of the border. My wife and I used to hit Baja every year sleeping on the beach and eating lobster until we burst. I am ready to go again.
Your concerns- I do have a compressor for the air brakes with an external connector. It is the most inefficient compressor in the world (350 HP) but does the job.
Second is ULSD... My International Mechanic in Ohio gave me a very in depth maintenance course prior to our trip and when I asked him about the possibility of no ULSD available, he told me to use the high sulpher stuff, the engine and emmissions system would never know the difference, and would appreciate the fuel better. He said the only thing it would do to the truck is discolor the fuel filter. Ironically, I couldn't find "agg deisel" for sale anywhere in Europe or Turkey. Does any diesel mechanic out there have any comment on this?
Doug- thanks so much for the info on South America. To be honest, after our trip I was too exhausted to think optimistically about a south american trip, but that is changin quick. Thanks for the tips on a trip south of the border. My wife and I used to hit Baja every year sleeping on the beach and eating lobster until we burst. I am ready to go again.
Your concerns- I do have a compressor for the air brakes with an external connector. It is the most inefficient compressor in the world (350 HP) but does the job.
Second is ULSD... My International Mechanic in Ohio gave me a very in depth maintenance course prior to our trip and when I asked him about the possibility of no ULSD available, he told me to use the high sulpher stuff, the engine and emmissions system would never know the difference, and would appreciate the fuel better. He said the only thing it would do to the truck is discolor the fuel filter. Ironically, I couldn't find "agg deisel" for sale anywhere in Europe or Turkey. Does any diesel mechanic out there have any comment on this?
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I'm not a mechanic but I personally think that high sulfur diesel produce more soot when burned, thus clogging DPF and EGR valve. Just a my view.
I think its interesting that the warning in my owners manual doesn't say anything about what could happen if high sulfur fuel was used. It just states to use only "authorized' ULSD fuel.
cwsqbm
Explorer
The manual says that because if you don't use ULSD, the truck won't be emissions compliant. Also, its a bit of CYA.
Here's an interesting read: http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels/apbf/pdfs/31600.pdf They ran tests with varying sulfur contents. What happened was with higher sulfur content, the DPF didn't reduce the particulate matter as much or at all. Therefore, USLD is needed for DPFs to do what they are designed to do, not so that DPFs won't clog. DPFs clog for other reasons (like too much fuel) even with ULSD.
Here's another article to read too.
Thanks, very interesting read (only got through the first one)
I think my mechanic was right. As you said, using fuels with a high sulfer renders the DPF useless, it might as well not be there, but doesn't damage it at all. The test ran the engines for 400 hours with high sulfer content, and there was no damage to the DPF or system. That confirms that if I were somewhere that didn't have ULSD, in some remote area, I would just use what I can get. There may be some that would say I am polluting mother earth while burning that tank of fuel, but I'd be polluting all the time if I bought a pre-ULSD vehicle.
I think my mechanic was right. As you said, using fuels with a high sulfer renders the DPF useless, it might as well not be there, but doesn't damage it at all. The test ran the engines for 400 hours with high sulfer content, and there was no damage to the DPF or system. That confirms that if I were somewhere that didn't have ULSD, in some remote area, I would just use what I can get. There may be some that would say I am polluting mother earth while burning that tank of fuel, but I'd be polluting all the time if I bought a pre-ULSD vehicle.
dhackney
Expedition Leader
When it comes to ULSD, "didn't have ULSD, some remote area" = most non-developed economies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-low-sulfur_diesel
In terms of the vehicle's systems, your problem will lie more with the interdependence of the engine ECU and other controllers on the truck's J1939 CANBUS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J1939 . The people running the test may have not detected any physical damage of the DPF, but the truck may have been put into "limp" mode after only a few gallons/hours of use with non-ULSD because of error conditions from the relevant systems' sensors.
Locate a dealer that sells your drivetrain to overseas mining or other non-U.S. markets. They order those trucks as non-EPA compliant from the factory and ship them overseas. This is anecdotal, but when I was researching post-2007 chassis your size, a dealer I spoke with had some very bad stories about U.S. ULSD drivetrains that were inadvertently included in a batch shipped overseas. Imagine a bunch of brand new trucks out in a remote, 3rd world mining area stuck in limp mode.
Once in limp mode, the only way out is to clear the error condition in the ECU. For those trucks at the mining operation, the closest relevant diagnostic computer capable of resetting them was back in the U.S. Again, this is anecdotal evidence, but something to keep in mind.
I know from personal experience that you won't find your drivetrain's diagnostic computer in a location like this truck repair yard in a market town in Ecuador:
If you can obtain a copy of the required software and connectors/cabling, you may be able to reset the system yourself in remote locations.
In either case, I encourage you to diligently look for evidence showing it's not an easy fix/modify/ignore.
I also know from personal experience that when you desperately want something to work, that easily slips into "need" something to work, and that quickly becomes "a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest." (thanks, Paul Simon)
Summer in Shachagra/Vacuflush and AC off batteries
Spent the summer traveling the US in Shachagra and doing some upgrades while on the road. Mostly trimwork but I did have to overhaul the vacuflush toilet. It was spitting back at us- something a $2000 toilet just shouldn't do. The vacuum generator was clogged with some pretty hard substance that I would have guessed was epoxy if I didn't already know what it was. Seems our judicious use of water with the toilet over 16 months may have been too much- they need water to keep everything flowing. I chipped and cleaned, and after I do some rearranging I will test it out. I also found that running an air conditioner off batteries is more than just amps out and amps in. We never used our AC at all in Europe and when we returned and plugged into the RV park outlet the thing worked great, but we have found that when run off the batteries, the inverter creates as much heat as the AC removes. Our solar arrangement can keep up with the electrical load, but we needed to cool the electrical box. I ducted the inverter cooling fan overboard, but it still gets hot. I plan to install a separate blower in the space and see if that helps.
The compartment got so hot that the solar controllers shut down. Not a good thing- no power in, lots going out.
I have started a thread on the 4X4 van section on my new project, a van topper made from home built foam core SIPs. It has a normal pop-top, but with hard sides that provide all support, and a bed that slides out the back, opening nearly the entire interior up to standing headroom. The pictures show only the bed and its pop-top, there will be another top that opens in the other direction.
Spent the summer traveling the US in Shachagra and doing some upgrades while on the road. Mostly trimwork but I did have to overhaul the vacuflush toilet. It was spitting back at us- something a $2000 toilet just shouldn't do. The vacuum generator was clogged with some pretty hard substance that I would have guessed was epoxy if I didn't already know what it was. Seems our judicious use of water with the toilet over 16 months may have been too much- they need water to keep everything flowing. I chipped and cleaned, and after I do some rearranging I will test it out. I also found that running an air conditioner off batteries is more than just amps out and amps in. We never used our AC at all in Europe and when we returned and plugged into the RV park outlet the thing worked great, but we have found that when run off the batteries, the inverter creates as much heat as the AC removes. Our solar arrangement can keep up with the electrical load, but we needed to cool the electrical box. I ducted the inverter cooling fan overboard, but it still gets hot. I plan to install a separate blower in the space and see if that helps.
The compartment got so hot that the solar controllers shut down. Not a good thing- no power in, lots going out.
I have started a thread on the 4X4 van section on my new project, a van topper made from home built foam core SIPs. It has a normal pop-top, but with hard sides that provide all support, and a bed that slides out the back, opening nearly the entire interior up to standing headroom. The pictures show only the bed and its pop-top, there will be another top that opens in the other direction.
