Shocks, Bags or Springs? Making it level

[tctundra]

Air bag articulation

If you need articulation, this is the way to go. Daystar air bag cradles. Full articulation, and work with nearly every air bag on the market.

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Towing/Air-Bag-Cradle.aspx?t_c=67&t_s=2&t_pt=11241&t_pn=DAYKU09140BK

 

[thethePete]

Bags within the coil still prevent articulation because they don't allow it to compress completely. But whatever, your one Jeep is exemplary of every vehicle on the road. You see your one Jeep, I work on thousands of vehicles a year. The stuff I say and suggest is not based off one or two personally owned vehicles, it's based on a career of working on many different vehicles that see many different uses.

You already admitted you lost a 1/2". Are you running stock coils still? Because if you are, then your argument is invalid. We're not talking about stock levels of articulation. We're talking about someone who may want actual flex. And who is running leafsprings, not coil springs. I'm familiar with the type of bag you're talking about. We use them frequently on the front coils of trucks with plows on them. They limit spring movement. Period. But I've seen your posts, so I'm not even going to continue to waste my energy trying to convince you of anything to the contrary. Furthermore, that type of airbag won't work on this application so suggesting them is a waste anyway.

Daystar cradles will allow full droop, but still not full compression unless you do some sort of custom mounting for the bag. If it is between the axle and the frame, it will not allow it to be stuffed as far up as it would with a conventional bump-stop. For the OP, who will be varying their load, it might be a good option, but even then, I would consider an add-a-leaf to account for the extra static weight (ie, topper shell), and either Timbren bumpstops or bags to compliment it. Personally speaking, I would just set up the leaf pack to hold my trip weight and deal with the poor ride quality when empty. It's pretty part for the course for a pick up, so I just pay the tax and accept that if I wanted it to ride like a car, I would have bought a car. I just picked up a new rear axle for my truck and right now with it in the box, it rides like a Cadillac. Empty it bounces over bumps. *shrug* It's a truck.

 

[greengreer]

Add a leaf. It will be the cheapest option and if you are at all mechanical you can do it in your driveway easily. Air shocks are not worth a damn in my experience. Bags are for a different application.

 

[OR2BAJA]

I would always start with springs and airbags as a last resort

 

[underdrive]

If you need articulation, this is the way to go. Daystar air bag cradles. Full articulation, and work with nearly every air bag on the market.

http://www.4wheelparts.com/Towing/Air-Bag-Cradle.aspx?t_c=67&t_s=2&t_pt=11241&t_pn=DAYKU09140BK

Yeah, those may work for dinky short bellows/springs (not bags pls), but I'd much rather have our long-travel (14" extended 4" compressed) bellows attached to both the axle and the frame all the time. Those 10" of travel are actually more than the factory rear suspension is capable of. Also, ours have a crossover line between them, with a valve in the middle - when valve is open they shift air from side to side and thus do not mess with the axle articulation, valve closed we can air them up/down individually (mostly used on the paved road and when leveling the camper once parked). We have that setup on both axles, the front bellows are shorter and they still allow more axle articulation than the factory leaves are capable of. As a result our dually goes everywhere a SRW 1-ton of the same vintage can go (size-limited obviously, can't fit 8ft-wide truck thru a 6ft gap between the trees), while carrying more weight without sagging. It's all in how you build it - IMHO those silly 5" or whatever baby-bellows that go right on top of your rear leaves above the U-bolt clamp plate have no business in anything that sees rough roads more than once in a blue moon, but if that's whhat you gotta work with then yes, Daystar cradles will help.

 

[pappawheely]

Don't waste your money on stuff that will be a band-aid or not work at all. Much cheaper to do it right the first time, especially with critical components like suspension. It was a long time ago but I bought Z71 springs for less than 150 bux. New shocks, air bags, add a leafs, do you just want lift or do you want the suspension to work correctly? Your leaf springs hold up the weight of your truck but also work with the shocks to provide traction. They keep your tires planted to the ground. Too stiff and the rear bounces. Too weak and you have sagging and axle wrap. Have your springs built to the spring rate you need to carry the weight. Putting a super stiff add a leaf will lift it for awhile but the rest of the leaves in the pack will still sag. don't waste the money. Air bags are good if the load varies all the time. I've been building cars and trucks for a long time. It's better to pay the little extra to do it right the first time. Doing it once and then doing it over is wasted money.

 

[gwittman]

Keith, back in 89 I installed add-a-leaf springs on my first Ranger because the Wildernest made the rear sag. It worked well when the shell was on but when I took it off the ride was very stiff. If you plan to have the same load all the time that would work well. I eventually added helper air springs because when I towed my race car, the rear sagged too much again. When I bought my current Ranger, I decide to not use the add-a-leaf springs and rely only on the air springs. This has worked well for off-road and towing my race car.
.
I originally was planning to remove the air springs for off-road but I found with over landing, the weight of my gear required the air springs. I ended up getting the tallest air spring I could find so it would not limit suspension drop. My rear suspension drops to the full length of the shocks and it does not effect compression very much. I have found the bags need to be replaced periodically but I consider it worth it for what they do and they are not that expensive. I think the life is in the 7 to 10 year range. I always keep a spare with me when towing or off-road incase I have a blow out and that has happened before. Air spring pressure needs to be checked occasionally because they do slowly loose air like tires do. Since they hold such little air the air loss is more noticeable. They do require more attention but worth it to me.

 

[pappawheely]

Keith, back in 89 I installed add-a-leaf springs on my first Ranger because the Wildernest made the rear sag. It worked well when the shell was on but when I took it off the ride was very stiff. If you plan to have the same load all the time that would work well. I eventually added helper air springs because when I towed my race car, the rear sagged too much again. When I bought my current Ranger, I decide to not use the add-a-leaf springs and rely only on the air springs. This has worked well for off-road and towing my race car.
.
I originally was planning to remove the air springs for off-road but I found with over landing, the weight of my gear required the air springs. I ended up getting the tallest air spring I could find so it would not limit suspension drop. My rear suspension drops to the full length of the shocks and it does not effect compression very much. I have found the bags need to be replaced periodically but I consider it worth it for what they do and they are not that expensive. I think the life is in the 7 to 10 year range. I always keep a spare with me when towing or off-road incase I have a blow out and that has happened before. Air spring pressure needs to be checked occasionally because they do slowly loose air like tires do. Since they hold such little air the air loss is more noticeable. They do require more attention but worth it to me.

Or, you can install proper leaf springs and fugget about it.

 

[Tazman]

I have a 2008 GMC Sierra 1500 4x. I love the truck but it didn't handle well and when towing and loaded it would do the job. It was time to upgrade the tires and suspension. BFG AT stock size but heavier load rating and Bilstine shocks. Truck handles like a sports car now. I will be towing a trailer soon and knew that 500 lbs of hitch weight would cause me to nose up. I looked at all the options and decided to go with a Hellwig Helper Spring.

http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/hellwig-61912-helper-springs-for-1999-2016-silverado-1500

For MY application it was a good solution. It will not effect the ride in daily driving or require maintenance. It will keep the truck level when I'm loaded and have the trailer attached. I'll let you know how it works.

 

[underdrive]

Or, you can install proper leaf springs and fugget about it.

But there is no leaf spring out there that maintains the same ride height all the time. We like our headlights aimed properly and our steering caster not changing regardless of the load on the truck, thank you very much. We load up a 3000 lbs camper - truck sits the same as it did when empty. We hook up a goose - same thing. We hitch up to a nose-heavy bumper pull - you guessed it, same ride height all the way. On our last trip we actually had the misfortune of getting in front of some jackwagon with a huge water tank in his F350 bed - his rear was down, his nose was up, and his headlights were more annoying than HID-converted high beams. When he finally picked up enough speed to pass us I was able to get a look at his rear leaves, he had at the very least his factory overloads. I'm sure it was a one-time haul and his setup is quite adequate 99.9% of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that this one time he was a road hazard with his headlamps shining right in other driver's eyes. And it only takes once to screw things up royally.

There's a good reason why so many large vehicles ride on air. Heck even heavy-haul 5-axle dumpers run them these days. Yes they have their limitation when it comes to suspension articulation, but if you get the proper air bellows they will work well with your factory suspension and not hinder it in any way. If you crawl over stupid-sized boulders fairly often then no, they are not for you. But if you want nice and soft ride when unloaded without the "Cali lean" when you're loaded down they they may just be the ticket. Bonus points for being able to adjust your ride height on the fly

Btw our truck can ride entirely on its leaves and still retain full load capacity. The air bellows were added to aid in ride comfort and to relieve stress from the camper while driving down rough roads. But we still kept the leaves without alteration, this way should something happen to the air ride system we have a tried and true (tho not very comfortable) backup. So far so good...

 

[pappawheely]

Good points underdrive but you are talking about also adding on-board air and being able to adjust on the fly. I thought the op wanted to compensate for his shell and gear in the back. If the load remains static, go for leaves. I will concede bonus points to you for using the word jackwagon. :sombrero:

 

[jeepdreamer]

The right answer is whatever works for YOU.
My xj flexes just fine. If I want to push harder trails I won't be fully loaded so I can dump air. Otherwise the bags work great for the trails I do while exploring.

 

[underdrive]

Good points underdrive but you are talking about also adding on-board air and being able to adjust on the fly. I thought the op wanted to compensate for his shell and gear in the back. If the load remains static, go for leaves. I will concede bonus points to you for using the word jackwagon. :sombrero:

Suppose that is true, the OBA does have us somewhat spoiled Still though, for a while the air springs were not hooked up to it - they just had your typical Schrader valves that could be filled up at any gas station that has an air machine. It worked just fine like that, yes it was sorta annoying that airing up/down wasn't as convenient as pushing a button, but realistically we rarely have need to change the air pressure, and a stupid-simple setup like that is very easy to seal up well so the pressure stays up for very long time. I still say go air if the loads can change fairly frequently: shell+gear is one load, shell alone is another, bed full of sand bags for the kids' playground is still another, in the end it's next to impossible to have a steel leaf that both accounts for different load weights (and distribution, since that makes a difference as well) and is always keeping up with the front suspension - meaning the truck will pretty much always be leaning one way or the other. Air takes care of that, just keep pressurizing the bellows till she sits how you want her. Another thing to remember is with leaves you're at the mercy of whoever made them for you - you hope they got everything right, but if they didn't things get interesting - with air you just air up, and if the spring mount lets go you simply beat up with it the person who welded it for you and then you have it rewelded to remove any and all evidence of the act of vengeance

Jackwagon, it's an R. Lee Ermy thing. But I bet you already knew that.

 

[Buliwyf]

You're wrong.

Air bags limit articulation. Most don't extend to more than 10" or so, and don't compress to less than 4" or so. Your Jeep might "articulate just fine" within the expectations of a stock vehicle, but it is categorically incorrect to state that airbags do not limit articulation. If you think 5-6" of movement is "articulating just fine" you've got your head in the sand. And springs only limit flex if you're over sprung for your application. The correct spring weights will allow maximum flex and articulation while carrying the load adequately. Big difference. There's a reason things like Daystar cradles exist, although I would still be reluctant to use those on anything I expected to make it past a forest service road.

Yup, so just run the Daytstar cradles, or longer air springs. Once you have a kit, you can ebay the bags and then pop in any airspring you want. I think I even used a cab spring for a semi-truck one time.

 

[kojackJKU]

Yep. all this about articulation must be from the RAWK KRAWLER crowd. Mine flexs fine aired down. Put air in and put the gear in my jeep and pop up camper and I still don't look like a bro dozer. If they don't work for you because you need 20 " of up travel to get to the next boulder on your 3 mile all day trip then no, they are NOT for you. If you want to pack your rig full, not look like a bro dozer, and keep control of your rig on and off road, air bags are viable.