Shocks....expensive shocks....

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
OK, I am pretty much tired of my jeep acting like a slinky while going down the road. I was putting this off...but I just can't stand it anymore. It is time for a suspension overhaul.

I am going a bit more upscale with the shocks this time...and am looking for wisdom others have gained.

So what I have my search narrowed down to is the Fox 2.0 non-coil over w/ remote reservoir. These are valved specific to the application, rebuildable/re-valveable (is that a word?????), and made to fit the Jeep OEM mounts. The rebound is adjustable, the compression side is not. But, there is an optional [and expensive] adjustable compression damper. Nice...but oh so expensive. Like an additional $75 ...............per shock.

Question is....is the adjustment worth it? Anyone have real world experience with them?
 

Andrew Walcker

Mod Emeritus
I'm running the Foxs w/ remote reservoirs on my D-90. I'm very happy with the adjustability on them. In addition it is great to know that I can re-build them at any time if need be (think that this will help justify the increase in price:). I am not sure if the adjustment on top of the remote reservoir does both rebound and compression? I am going to have to find out!
 

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
detailbarn said:
i've driven in a tj with the fox's and it was an improvement over stock but for overall ride and comfort I still like OME's http://www.arbusa.com/shock_absorbers_ltr.php

I think personal prefernce is going to be a big factor , but I can say Foxes are a great product , I run them on my mountain mikes and love them.

Any idea what the valving was set at? Which Fox shocks did it have? Rod size? Pressure in the reservoir?

Can you rebuild the OME's? How about changing the valving if you want? The website states that it is pre-set.....not sure if you can change it if needed (like if you add weight, remove weight, change spring rates, etc).


Andrew Walcker said:
I am not sure if the adjustment on top of the remote reservoir does both rebound and compression?

There is generally one adjustment for rebound, and seperate one for compression damping...from what I hear, Fox sets them up with the adj. rebound, but not the compression unless requested (and paid for).
 

Andrew Walcker

Mod Emeritus
I have a single adjustment knob so it must cover rebound only. The Fox shocks are built beautifully and appear to be higher quality than the Ranchos and OMEs that I've run in the past. Not really sure if that equates to a better ride? Thanks for the information and good luck with your decision.
 

JayP

Observer
Personally, I would suggest spending the extra $150 dollars, and have the power to adjust rebound and compression right at your fingertips. Also Fox shocks are race-proven and I'm sure they will offer you plenty of "goodtimes." Sorry, I had to do it. lol. :sombrero:
 

24HOURSOFNEVADA

Expedition Leader
Check your p.m.

This is a Fox that Sam (Samco Fab) designed for Josh Hall's race H2. Fox said it was one of the oddest designs they have ever built. It works awesome. He'll guide you true even if it's at the cost of a sale. He's a solid guy. I'm going to be replacing my bilsteins with Fox if I keep my rig. My next rig will be Fox equipped without question. Great customer service (Have you ever tried to get service after the purchase from sway away?) and a great product. You've made a wise choice.


samcofox.jpg


p.s. That's 8" of stroke and a full sized pepsi can.
 

jeffryscott

2006 Rally Course Champion: Expedition Trophy
JayP said:
Personally, I would suggest spending the extra $150 dollars, and have the power to adjust rebound and compression right at your fingertips. Also Fox shocks are race-proven and I'm sure they will offer you plenty of "goodtimes." Sorry, I had to do it. lol. :sombrero:

If the jeep's a rockin ...:sombrero:

Knowing you, I don't think you'd be satisfied if you didn't get the fancy adjustables. You are so in-tune with the vehicle, that I think you need that adjustment.

And you need rebuildable so you can perform feats of flight :bowdown:
 

erin

Explorer
I think the alxes will need gussets for the next round of flights, not better shocks!!! LOL:victory:
 

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
No "flights" are currently planned for the TJ. It has only done it one time, and I don't see a repeat performance. No, what I want is better handling and control as I head south out of San Felipe at 75mph. :imagesCADZQMBJ:

now if you'll excuse me, I have a new set of knobbies to scrub in....:roost:
 

Rockcrawler

Adventurer
goodtimes said:
now if you'll excuse me, I have a new set of knobbies to scrub in....:roost:


I'm really glad that I know what you're talking about... either that or I'd think you are even more sick and twisted than you really are!
 

SOAZ

Tim and Kelsey get lost..
*******Sorry**** Bored at work and I'm usually so swamped I cant breathe so I wrote a BOOK!******************

Ranchos are made out of cardboard compared to even a low end set of foxes like the 2.0's. The thing is, if you dont take the time to valve the foxes they may actually ride worse. If they are valved they WILL ride better. Almost no one gets them valved correctly because there are VERY few people that know how to. Thats why companies and race teams go to the same handful of "shock gods" for all of their valving needs.
EX: I worked for Donahoe racing building their coilovers. I had a set on my tacoma with no sway bar and deaver rear leafs with billie 5100's. (back in the day before donahoe started making/rebranding edelbrock shocks for the rear of tacomas)
It road amazing. I would love passing people while prerunning courses and they could not believe a stock looking truck could do it. Everyone just thought I beat my truck harder than anyone else. I would go to an MDR race and give rides to prove that even though it looked bad from the outside, I wasn't getting beat up at all. VALVING!
I went and got Total Chaos front long travel with 2.5 double bypasses and a 2.0 coilover in front and triple bypass 3.0's in the rear with 62 inch deavers. I effective double my wheel travel. I was SOOOO disappointed at the performance. This isn't any of these companies fault, but without valving it actually covered the same ground while making me feel a rougher ride than my old bolt in coilovers... Needless to say once I had taken the time to valve them myself and then get a friend (one of the shock gods) to fine tune it. It was amazing and of course better offroad than the bolt in stuff.

LESSON learned? I'll go with the bolt in stuff on most things I buy unless I can spend the $ and money to go through hours and hours of bolting and unbolting and taking apart my shocks time after time until they are correct!
For most people a OME, Rancho, or my choice a 5100 is the way to go....
 

goodtimes

Expedition Poseur
Good post Tim.

Anyone that has had a ride in Chris (bajataco)'s tacoma, knows just how incredibly sickening a well tuned suspension is. The bolt on junk that is on my jeep is, well...junk. Thus the desire for a 'tuneable' shock.

I was holding off because no one made a proper shock that would fit a TJ without custom mounts (typically the jeep croud would notch the TJ frame, and weld in ford superduty shock towers). Not really what I wanted to do. Now that I know Fox makes the 2.0 (both emulsion & R/R) that will literally bold into the TJ....it makes things easier.

Any idea about how big of a adjustment window the compression and rebound damping adjustments give? It is so much easier to turn a dial than tear a shock apart, change the valves, reassemble, charge, install, test, rinse, repeat. Hence my inquiry about the compression damping adjustment...

Or, is there a "shock god" in Arizona I should be talking to? Because really, I have little experience with suspension tuning outside of the very basics.

I do have the number of a guy up in Reno that I will be talking to (thanks again 24Hrs)....but once the shocks are installed, tuning may be difficult (since I don't really know much about it)...
 

SOAZ

Tim and Kelsey get lost..
The tuning that the reservoir nob does is only low speed tuning.(EDIT: I realized that things COULD have changed since I was into this stuff, if anyone has a diagram of the fox adjustable system I want to make sure its what I think it is.) Meaning, it opens or closes a small hole for fluid to go through. This effects how little bumps in the road feel since for those the fluid can travel through a little hole without causing deflection of the shim stack. When you go over a large bump at a higher speed that pushes the suspension up or down a more significant distance with more force the effect of the little hole (whether is totally open of closed) has exponentially less effect on the ride.
Picture a spatula with a tiny hole in it and move it under water. As long as you just shake it back and forth it does fine. Try to move it fast or a long distance and it is hard to do and has a lot of drag. For this movement to be as easy as the little movement you need a ton of holes in the spatula.
(on a rancho 9000 you are adjusting the same type of movement. Thats why the adjustment makes a big difference for the on road feel, but you can hit a big dip offroad and if your senses are sharp, you'll notice no difference than when the shock in on its easiest setting.)
Soooo, if you truly want a tuned ride you need to break the shock down and get the right shims in, Then you can screw or unscrew the valve for a cushier or more supportive ride as long as you understand that on bigger hits or higher speed hits the shock will act imperseptively different.
Shock gods in AZ. Geiser bros (specifically Rick), but they are so big now that it might be hard to get them to do a single shock job, or really expensive. (and even these guys contract to have a God come in to do their trophy trucks)
What I would do: give the guys at fox a detailed description of your application. If they have dialed in something pretty good, great. If not, be prepared to give vehicle weight, shock length, application, etc. and ask them to recommend a valving for you. At least then you start with something close and then you can learn to pull it apart and try different shim stacks (not recommended, without specific tools most people leave some amount of air, no matter how small, in the shock and it kills the performance because of emulsion. It only takes a couple bubbles. We used a vacuum seal to make sure there was no air in the shocks at DR.) (also dont expect the guys at SAW to be willing or have the knowledge to tell you what valving to use. Not being mean, but unless they have a lot of new employees they dont have anyone there that knows much except how to keep the manufacturing process rolling.)
Or you can use the adjuster to make some finite adjustments then. Those shocks will handle a lOT more abuse, last longer and although they WILL ride more firm its because they are an internal resivoir style(like a bilstien 5100, basically the only low level shock to have even this basic technology). (even if the reservoir is attached we still call it internal because the air pocket is internal suspended about half way through the external reservoir.)
These should not have to be rebuilt, unless you rust the shocks, get dirt in them, bend them etc for 5 or more years. There is just no way to give them enough abuse. If you ever open the shock and smell the worst smell of your life you have burnt the oil. (rotten eggs!) I've never seen anyone do this on a non race vehicle. There are things that 6 or 29 hours of pounding that will do strange things to a shock and the plastic seals inside it!!
 
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