Shore power 120 & 220

[rideglobally]

All my appliances runs on 120 volts. We are now in a country with 220V shore power. How do I create a system that will allow me to plug into 220 & 120 without using a transformer to step down to 120V? I am looking for accessory that is already integrated into my shore power system. Thank you

 

[DiploStrat]

Scholars differ. After looking at all of the options (and having spent half of my life living in a 220v world) I simply added another charger. Has worked perfectly and, as I bought the 110v/220v model, it even gives me a backup when in the US.

I bought a Victron IP43 Charger, but the exact make/model doesn't matter.

Smart IP43 Charger - Victron Energy

With boat owners in mind this adaptive 5-step charger can provide either 30A or 50A of charge to each of three battery banks.

www.victronenergy.com

 

[rideglobally]

Thanks but I am not looking for a battery charger I am looking for an assessor to convert 220v to 110v without carrying around a step down transformer. All my appliances in the RV are 110v.

 

[DiploStrat]

You miss the point. My appliances are 120v as well.

Charge yer batteries and use your inverter. Works much better than a transformer. Also limits your draw on often undersized 220v service. My Victron draws less than 4A @220v.

Also obviates frequency issues.

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

We are mostly electric. We don't have a shore power connection at all.
Solar provides 99% of our electrical energy with the alternator as a back-up.
Usage is either DC or via the inverter for AC.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[Peter_n_Margaret]

If you do end up using a transformer, you may have problems with frequency.

Which is why the battery charger - inverter solution or avoiding the use of shore power entirely are the best solutions as the frequency issue disappears.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

 

[DiploStrat]

We are mostly electric. We don't have a shore power connection at all.
Solar provides 99% of our electrical energy with the alternator as a back-up.
Usage is either DC or via the inverter for AC.
Cheers,
Peter
OKA196 motorhome

Hey Peter!

We once went some 18 months without shore power as a proof of concept. Some things we learned:

-- You can do it, even with an all electric camper, as long as you have enough battery to carry between rains and enough solar to recharge.

--Some (all?) lead acid batteries need a really full charge with a proper absorb stage. Normally, one can rely on the solar controller to do this, but some (like one I had) don't have an absorb stage. This is bad for the batteries. A proper shore charger can fix this once a month/week. But here too, you have to check. A lot of the US "converters" are optimized for campground use. They will hit the target voltage, but immediately drop to float.

-- Lithium makes these annoying details go away, and, assuming a proper charger and BMS, are simply much easier to live with.

-- Northern Europe/UK is not like the US. While this spring we got so much charge that I didn't realize that my alternator charge was not working properly, this fall, with rain, shorter days, and lower sun angle, we had to charge about once a week.

 

[DiploStrat]

Without a transformer there is no practical way to step down.
Btw,
If you do end up using a transformer, you may have problems with frequency.
Typically 230V countries use 50 Hz. This may cause problems with motorised appliances like refrigerators if they are intended for 60 Hz.

AFAIK:

-- US residential power is two 110v phases and a neutral. This gives you 110v at the outlet and 208v, phase to phase, for electric stoves and dryers.

-- I am guessing that UK/EU is 220v phase to neutral with a ground. Don't know if there is any way to split a phase in this setup, but my ignorance is total.

VermonsterRV was playing around with a Victron transformer to take in 110v or 220v and deliver only 110v to his outlets. Don't know if he ever got it to work, but he is in the southern cone of South America and, I believe that Argentina and Chile are both 220v.

There aren't that many things that are cycle sensitive. When I was a kid it was always the record player and the tape recorder. Microwave ovens may be an issue.

 

[DiploStrat]

To split hairs...
Typical N.A. service is 240V split phase. The center point of the 'split' is the grounded neutral.
Apartment buildings for example.
Are frequently served 208V three phase.
Most 240V appliances are designed to work at 208V. Obviously at reduced effectiveness.

Aside from UK, most of europe is served 400V three phase.
( Lucky people !
Living the dream with three phase power to the house )
400V three phase gives 230V phase to neutral, that serves most loads aside from cooking & heating appliances.
Without another transformer, there is no practical way to reduce that.

A further aside.
In UK, most construction sites and some industry uses split phase 110V for power tools and lighting.
This is accomplished by dedicated transformers at the site.

Tanx!

 

[Alloy]

To split hairs...
Typical N.A. service is 240V split phase. The center point of the 'split' is the grounded neutral.
Apartment buildings for example.
Are frequently served 208V three phase.
Most 240V appliances are designed to work at 208V. Obviously at reduced effectiveness.

Aside from UK, most of europe is served 400V three phase.
( Lucky people !
Living the dream with three phase power to the house )
400V three phase gives 230V phase to neutral, that serves most loads aside from cooking & heating appliances.
Without another transformer, there is no practical way to reduce that.

A further aside.
In UK, most construction sites and some industry uses split phase 110V for power tools and lighting. (This is considerably safer than even the 120V of N.A.)
This is accomplished by dedicated transformers at the site.

400VAC 3Ø would be a dream come true.......if only Edison wasn't such an idiot when it came to AC power.

 

[Alloy]

Hey Peter!

-- You can do it, even with an all electric camper, as long as you have enough battery to carry between rains and enough solar to recharge.

We have 1200W of solar on the roof and that wan't enough to recharge 80-100Ah/day through the forrest fire smoke.

 

[DiploStrat]

We have 1200W of solar on the roof and that wan't enough to recharge 80-100Ah/day through the forrest fire smoke.

Ouch! Had not thought of forest fires; with have "only" 640w. I was amazed at how much solar performance fell off in the Fall. And annoyed that my alternator charging is not working properly. (Hopefully will have that sorted in the New Year.)

While I like as much independence as possible, I consider a shore power backup to be essential.

 

[rideglobally]

You miss the point. My appliances are 120v as well.

Charge yer batteries and use your inverter. Works much better than a transformer. Also limits your draw on often undersized 220v service. My Victron draws less than 4A @220v.

Also obviates frequency issues.

Thank you I finally understand your point I will look into the victron charger. I am also looking at Renogy inverter/charger i am trying to find out if they accept 110/220v as a power source for the charge. https://www.renogy.com/3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-w-lcd-display/

 

[DiploStrat]

Thank you I finally understand your point I will look into the victron charger. I am also looking at Renogy inverter/charger i am trying to find out if they accept 110/220v as a power source for the charge. https://www.renogy.com/3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-inverter-charger-w-lcd-display/

Had to bang my head against the wall a few times before I fully got this! (And I lived in 220v countries most of my life!)

By definition, an inverter/charger cannot be multi-voltage, as it passes power directly via a transfer switch. That would send 220v to your 110v appliances. (Or 110v to your 220v gear if you have a 220v system.) My Magnum got plugged into to a US 208v outlet by accident and immediately popped a breaker to protect the 110v loads. Was quite happy with that!

These folks might be able to install a transformer/frequency converter in front of your inverter/charger, but the last time I looked it was REALLY expensive. https://www.motorhomemedics.co.uk/

In the real world, frequency is probably only an issue for a microwave.

For most folks, the best option is a 2kw transformer or, and I like this better, a decent 220v charger. As noted, my US camper has been in UK/France for most of the year and the Victron is perfect. I can give you some good ideas on handling all of the various plugs.

Good luck!

 

[rideglobally]

This is what I am thinking of getting https://www.renogy.com/rego-3000w-12v-pure-sine-wave-hf-inverter-charger-split-phase-design/ any thoughts on Renogy products. Thx