Skool me: Re-powering a Trooper in CA.

[BIGdaddy]

So, earlier this year, I was promoted to management and given my own group to run. About the same time, we re-dedicated ourselves to paying down my student debt Consequently, we chose to keep my trooper and maintain/upgrade it to stay away from new car debt. That being said, at 188,000 miles, I know my engine will probably need some love soon.

Rebuilding/refreshing the motor with new internals is a strong choice, as rebuild kits do exist. Also, As far as I know my transmission is healthy, aside from a few very consistent quirks due to age, and seems to handle a very heavy load (5 people, gear, pulling a trailer) with ease.
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Regardless, I have also kicked around the idea of putting a 3.4L Toyota V6 with auto/tcase in it's place to secure my ability to continue to maintain/run my rig. I'm aware that it would require splicing wiring looms, custom motor/tranny/tcase mounts, custom driveshafts, etc...
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That path raises quite a few CA specific questions that I don't have answers for, though:
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1. What are the CARB/EPA/DMV rules related to this?
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2. Am I able to get a different manufacturer motor referee'd in California?
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Anyone have recent experience re-powering an OBDII vehicle in CA?

 

[Concours14]

You could do it but it would not be cost effective. You would need the all the above plus evap, computer, system from the donor vehicle which has to be the same year or newer. Also from past experiences with referees each one has a different interpitation of the C.A.R.B. rules.

 

[BIGdaddy]

You could do it but it would not be cost effective. You would need the all the above plus evap, computer, system from the donor vehicle which has to be the same year or newer. Also from past experiences with referees each one has a different interpitation of the C.A.R.B. rules.

Thanks for the input, much appreciated. Just trying to consider all the possible options.

 

[Herbie]

Concours14 has it right, but maybe buried the lede on the re-power: Literally every component that CARB considers an "emissions control device" must be transplanted from the donor chassis. Cats, computers, sensors, etc. Doable, but can be a pain unless you have a whole donor to pull from. A friend went through this on repowering a 1st gen CRX with a late-model Honda motor and it involved a half dozen trips to the referee and buying a newly-made computer harness purpose built for that swap (only really available because it's a popular swap) Doing this from scratch without aftermarket "support" would be a project, with a lot of down time, which probably doesn't fit into your plans.

For my budget, the lowest cost options are a rebuild or replacement engine, either one only after squeezing every last mile out of the current mill. Given the labor involved in removing/replacing the engine, I'd probably eat the downtime and do the rebuild rather than risk the labor on swapping in a junkyard or JDM engine only to find a problem. If you must minimize down time over all things, you could rebuild a junkyard motor prior to the swap, obviously at extra cost.

The other thing to check is whether or not the bottom end really needs refreshing. Before committing to a full build, have a trusted mechanic pull the pan and inspect the rods/bearings, etc. If it's been well looked after, it may only need a top-end refresh which can be done much more economically without pulling the block. There are cars in my family on their third head with the original bottom end.

 

[eggman918]

If I were to go through all the trouble to do a swap I would go TDI the VW 1.9 would make it a great rig.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Concours14 has it right, but maybe buried the lede on the re-power: Literally every component that CARB considers an "emissions control device" must be transplanted from the donor chassis. Cats, computers, sensors, etc. Doable, but can be a pain unless you have a whole donor to pull from. A friend went through this on repowering a 1st gen CRX with a late-model Honda motor and it involved a half dozen trips to the referee and buying a newly-made computer harness purpose built for that swap (only really available because it's a popular swap) Doing this from scratch without aftermarket "support" would be a project, with a lot of down time, which probably doesn't fit into your plans.

For my budget, the lowest cost options are a rebuild or replacement engine, either one only after squeezing every last mile out of the current mill. Given the labor involved in removing/replacing the engine, I'd probably eat the downtime and do the rebuild rather than risk the labor on swapping in a junkyard or JDM engine only to find a problem. If you must minimize down time over all things, you could rebuild a junkyard motor prior to the swap, obviously at extra cost.

The other thing to check is whether or not the bottom end really needs refreshing. Before committing to a full build, have a trusted mechanic pull the pan and inspect the rods/bearings, etc. If it's been well looked after, it may only need a top-end refresh which can be done much more economically without pulling the block. There are cars in my family on their third head with the original bottom end.

Thank you, sir. Sounds like I should be leaning more towards the repair/replace than the re-power route. I've had it since 140k, and I've poured quite a bit of maintenance into it, so I'm keen to keep it running.
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I do have a vehicle to use when this one is down, so that's not an issue. More looking to maximize the lifespan of a vehicle that meets 99% of our family's needs.
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Full rebuild kits for this rig are around $500-700. Not bad at all. Problem is, finding a solid mechanic to do the rebuild/refresh. I have a mechanic who did the timing belt/water pump, pulley's, etc when I bought it, so hopefully he'd be game to do this, too. Good point on the pro's/cons of rebuild/JDM replace - apparently removal of this motor is extremely time-consuming compared to other Japanese rigs, so it's advised to refresh the original motor before it needs to be removed for replacement.

 

[BigSwede]

Talk to Jerry Lemond, he can tell you exactly what is involved... too bad you don't live near Georgia.

 

[BIGdaddy]

Talk to Jerry Lemond, he can tell you exactly what is involved... too bad you don't live near Georgia.

Yup, I've been reading a few of his posts over on the planet. good stuff.

He's answered a bunch of my questions already.

 

[Arclight]

Thank you, sir. Sounds like I should be leaning more towards the repair/replace than the re-power route. I've had it since 140k, and I've poured quite a bit of maintenance into it, so I'm keen to keep it running.
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I do have a vehicle to use when this one is down, so that's not an issue. More looking to maximize the lifespan of a vehicle that meets 99% of our family's needs.
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Full rebuild kits for this rig are around $500-700. Not bad at all. Problem is, finding a solid mechanic to do the rebuild/refresh. I have a mechanic who did the timing belt/water pump, pulley's, etc when I bought it, so hopefully he'd be game to do this, too. Good point on the pro's/cons of rebuild/JDM replace - apparently removal of this motor is extremely time-consuming compared to other Japanese rigs, so it's advised to refresh the original motor before it needs to be removed for replacement.

I highly recommend this shop for the actual motor rebuild. You'd still have to pull it yourself, but they did an excellent job on my Toyota 3.4 . They were a recommendation from the mechanic my family has used for decades:

Same Day Cylinder Head Service  
1223 E Ash Ave, Fullerton, CA 92831
(714) 680-3006

They may also be able to source the rebuild parts cheaper than you can. They were also very helpful in getting me a new rebuildable crankshaft and other parts I had destroyed at a reasonable cost.

They brought my motor back with heads and bottom end assembled and lubed. All I had to do was install the accessories and drop it back in.

Arclight

 

[LR Max]

Engine Rebuild.

Cali is doing all kind of weird things on engine repowers, like in off-highway equipment (construction equipment, stationary, etc) they are mandating that no engines over 10 years old can work in the state of California.

You are better off rebuilding your current engine, keeping matching numbers. Otherwise you might get caught up in some nonsense.

Really, rebuilding is easy and actually I think its fun. Especially when its out of the vehicle. If you are going to rebuild it yourself, talk to local machine shops and see what they prefer. Many prefer to do the teardown themselves and then send it back to you in pieces. Otherwise you can take the block, crank, rods, pistons, and head to get worked on.

 

[justcuz]

If your engine is one that is an oil eater you can fix that too while your inside it.
Best deal is to replace the trans with an Aisan Warner trans and get rid of the two sump French made transmission.
Bell housings are GM 60 degree V6 to trans used in Jeep Cherokee and NP241 T-case. Or a 4L60E trans too.
California has changed engine repower requirements somewhat. Essentially if your vehicle was not offered with an engine from the factory, you can't install it in your vehicle.
So you can't install a diesel in a 88-98 Chevy or GMC 1/2 ton pickup or Suburban but you can in a 3/4 ton.
You can't put a 4.6 or 5.4 in an early Ford pickup
GM did a smart thing though, they CARB certified the 1999 5.3 LS engine, so you can put one of those in anything it will fit in.
A 5.3 might be a little too much for a Trooper though!

 

[BigSwede]

A 5.3 might be a little too much for a Trooper though!

Not necessarily - the reason Isuzu upgraded the rear axle in 1998 was in anticipation of introducing a V8 engine (it was basically an 8 cylinder version of the 3.5L V6). But their fortunes waned, and it never happened before Isuzu left the country.

 

[justcuz]

There is a guy somewhere up north, Idaho I believe, that put a v8 in a second generation Trooper. Seemed like a lot of work as I recall.

 

[Viggen]

If I were to go through all the trouble to do a swap I would go TDI the VW 1.9 would make it a great rig.

That motor is in the midst of loosing its CARB approval. I would not say to go with that. Plus, having to transplant all of the emissions equipment, probably including the Urea and all that. Ask anyone with a TDI in California what might be heading their way.


I would imagine that the easiest swap would be an LSx swap merely because it has been done about a million times, including in California, and the knowledge base is right there. Talk to Pacific Fabrication. Their living is swapping and they are in California. Then, all you need to do is figure out the packaging.


If it were me, I would just rebuild what is there. Less hassle. Less mess. No packaging issues.