Sleeping Bags

[DaktariEd]

I am actually in the bag market as well.
I have an old Kelty mummy from about 10 years ago but my wife and I are getting into doing more vehicle based camping as well as overnight backpacking. I am a fan of Kelty products so I think the answer for us is going to be one of the big double-wide bags for vehicle camping and two small lightweight mummy bags for backpacking. Now I just have to choose a temp rating.

Those temperature ratings have me puzzled.

Do they actually have a standard test by which they rate the bags, or is it just someone's claim, unsubstantiated?

My -20 degree bag, for example, was pretty good at 29 degrees recently, but I just can't see it doing all that well near 0 or below...

:camping:
Ed

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

Well, i have a -20 LL Bean Down bag i have had for about 10 years! I have slept in slow, sleet, rain, and freezing temps (-10 the coldest) and i have ALWAYS been toasty warm! I dont know HOW they rate em, but mine has kept me warm in below zero temps many times!

Sorry for the thread hi-jack, but i see this as relative to the subject:

Here is a question for all you outdoor gurus! This is an ongoing debate between some friends and I:

When i was in scouts some years ago, we were told that if you have a nice cold weather bag that its best to sleep with minimal layers on so that your bodyheat goes into that bag and is trapped there for warmth, hence keeping your warm! Or something like that, dont remember exactly, but we were told something along those lines!

Anyway, In my -20 bag, I have slept in boxers only (sorry no pics ) and I have been toasty warm in 0 degree weather.

1/2 of my friends have heard this and agree, and 1/2 think i am nuts! What is you guys's opinion on this?

Thanks

 

[datrupr]

I am in agreeacne witht the minimal layer line of thought. I too have been told when I was a scout as well, that sleeping bags are designed to use your body heat to keep you warm. If you wear your clothes in the bag they deflect your body heat, and you will not get as warm, and also it will take you a lot longer to warm up. When I jump in my bag I am in my boxers and I am nice an toasty warm all night. I have also jumped into my bag with my clothes on and it took forever to warm up, so I am going along with the minimal is best line of thought just from my own practices. I also recall mentioning this at the Rally and I got a few good laughs, but I think the subject got turned before I could get any good responses. That, or I drank a bit too much beer on that first night. Sorry to ramble on here.

 

[offroad_nomad]

What type of environment will you be camping in and how cold do you expect the weather to be? I have both a synthetic Kelty sleeping bag and a Marmot down bag. Both have their pros and cons. I always pack one in my SAR pack when on sims, missions or field exercises.

Also will you be hauling the sleeping bag in a pack or something to use when camping out with your truck?

I am looking for advice on a good 3 season sleeping bag, not the $600 bags, and perferably under $300. Any advice?

 

[Ursidae69]

Here is a question for all you outdoor gurus! This is an ongoing debate between some friends and I:

You are correct in your thinking, without the body heat the bag won't work. I might add socks on a cold night, but still very minimalist.

 

[GeoRoss]

Those temperature ratings have me puzzled.

Do they actually have a standard test by which they rate the bags, or is it just someone's claim, unsubstantiated?

My -20 degree bag, for example, was pretty good at 29 degrees recently, but I just can't see it doing all that well near 0 or below...

:camping:
Ed

As I understand it, there is no uniform testing. It is based on the quality of the down (or other insulator) and how much is in there. Every company has a bit different method. Partly this is due to how different people are, I am a warm sleeper whereas my wife is the opposite.All you can really do is rely on them as a general guage of which of a manufacturors bags is warmer than another.

Ross

 

[GeoRoss]

When i was in scouts some years ago, we were told that if you have a nice cold weather bag that its best to sleep with minimal layers on so that your bodyheat goes into that bag and is trapped there for warmth, hence keeping your warm! Or something like that, dont remember exactly, but we were told something along those lines!

I don't buy it myself. If you believe in layering, then it is just another type of layering.

Consider when you are outside in short sleeves. The air around you is an insulator, a bad one, but an isulator. Put on a long sleeve shirt and you are warmer. Put on a down jacket and you are warmer yet. I don't see how this is any different with sleeping bags.

That said, how I dress for sleep in the cold depends. If it is a long uninterupted period, say >1 week, I sleep in relatively clean long johns or underware w/ a clean long sleeve shirt and always a hat. If it is a short time, I just go to sleep in my field clothes. I don't sleep in my down bag. I sleep in a fleece bag liner, with the sleeping bag used a quilt. I do this so I don't have to wash the down bag as often.

The best advice for sleeping warm is a hat though.

Ross

 

[offroad_nomad]

This past weekend my SAR team conducted a winter survival field exercise which included an overnight bivy outside without tents. I was the FTL and my evaluator eventually became "hypothermic." Base informed us that there weren't any teams available to assist and to prepare an emergency bivy on the mountain.

We aided our hypothermic "patient" by using hand, toe and body warmers from Heat Treat.

I also rotated my teammates inside the sleeping bag with our "patient" to provide additional heat. The temp got down to about 20 deg that night, but we were fine. When I get my photos uploaded I might start a seperate post.

You are correct in your thinking, without the body heat the bag won't work. I might add socks on a cold night, but still very minimalist.

 

[BajaTaco]

Those hand/feet warmers are awesome.

On the body heat in the bag issue, I agree with Ross. While I am a pretty warm sleeper and usually don't sleep with much on when in the sleeping bag, my wife is another story. She refuses to lose her body heat when getting ready to crawl into the camper, so she just usually gets into her bag fully clothed. She often ends up overheating, and has to peel down the layers accordingly. I think the sleeping bag just adds more insulation to whatever you might be wearing. The more insulation between you on the inside, and the cold air on the outside, the warmer you will be. Clothes act as insulation too IMO.

I tried a bag liner in an effort to prolong the cleanliness of my down bag, but I just can't sleep in one. I am a "roller" so I have to lay on my sides as well as my back, and periodically roll to switch sides. When I do this inside of a liner, it twists around me and I eventually feel like I'm in a straight-jacket.

My wife and I have used the double bags too, where you zip together two singles. Since she gets cold easily, she complains that the double bag is a problem because there is usually a space between us where the top of the bag doesn't droop down and touch the bottom bag. This creates a gap where cold air is allowed to get inside the bag, which makes her cold. So we no longer use the double, and just use our own individual bags when camping.

 

[offroad_nomad]

In addition to your sleeping bag considerations, look into getting a good thermal barrier (sleeping pad) to sleep on as well. The Therm-A-Rest are fairly indestructable, unless your dog chews on it:
http://www.rei.com/category/4500448.htm?vcat=REI_SSHP_CAMPING_TOC

Another trick, find some Tyvek used for wrapping houses, it makes a great ground "cloth" to sleep on to prevent any moister from getting to your sleeping bag.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Dupont-TYVEK-Ho...ryZ36120QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[Ursidae69]

Wearing lightweight long underwear in the sleeping bag is fine, but I have tested this theory a few times. I actually took a nap one day on a camp trip and was too lazy to strip down to my long undies and I was fully inside my sleeping bag and I woke up shivering. I stripped to my long undies and then climbed back in and was warm in no time at all. If you want to layer, then add a light blanket to the top of the sleeping bag, that will do a whole lot more than wearing uncomfortable jeans and shirts to bed. The bag really does trap the heat given off by the body, heavy pants or shirts block that heat. The only layering that works is layers on top of the sleeping bag. I've done many many winter camp trips in my life, mostly hunt trips, and it is true, go minimalist in the bag and have a good bag.

 

[BajaTaco]

The bag really does trap the heat given off by the body, heavy pants or shirts block that heat.

As long as the heat is next to your body, does it matter if it is in the fibers of the bag or the fibers of your clothes? I am not disputing what you experienced, but I am wondering if there are different results for different people, much like there are huge swings in "tolerance" for different people when it comes to bag temp. ratings and comfort levels. I have tried it both ways, and I usually get too hot if I leave my clothes on. Maybe I just need to try the expiriment at much, much lower temps.

 

[Ursidae69]

All I know is my life experiences. I also was told the same story by one of my mentors, an old biologist at AZ Game and Fish who did field work half the year for most of his life all over the montane west.

I do agree that everyone is different though. That is biology for ya, no generalization ever sticks. Some folks metabolism is so high they really pump out the heat.

 

[Brian McVickers]

Here is an option for a sleeping bag liner
This one is "nylon parachute silk" and about $30

http://hammockbliss.safeshopper.com/21/cat21.htm?833

 

[RAM5500 CAMPERTHING]

My girlfriend (who gets cold when the wind blows) just got this and swears by it. It got cold in the mtns of mexico for new years and she was toasty warm!

Its fleece and could easily fit my 6'4" 265lb body:

http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...3&parent_category_rn=40003719&vcat=REI_SEARCH