Small cross-over SUV functional for adventuring?

[autism family travels]

But they have that 9-speed abomination under the hood I'd rather walk.

Would rather that 9 spd transmission than a CVT any day of the week.

 

[The Artisan]

I am on a FB element campers page and there are some nice rigs lifted and they do come in 4wd. 2wd with rear assist. Here is my plan with my 5 speed
Kevin

 

[baipin]

Consider modern Subarus and don't be scared of CVTs, they're excellent vehicles on and off road. They just take a little bit of getting used to with a bit of lag, use of momentum, and staying on the gas until the AWD kicks in. They're excellent vehicles, I have one myself, and have been nothing but reliable (especially 2014+). They're pretty competent offroad and if a locker interests you, they suit them well (Torq locker specifically, or ARB Nissan R180 locker in a R180 Subaru diff).

Plenty of examples of them not stalling out. Like I said, they just take a bit of getting used to, but they definitely hold their own remarkably well for little SUVs and wagons that are comfortable and still get 30MPG (with a 2.5" lift, 30" tires, steel bumper, I'm getting 25mpg to 29mpg in my '18 Forester XT)...

Why You Are WRONG about the CVT

I just had to do this one. I've seen enough.I will be wearing my flame suit for the time being.

www.youtube.com

 

[calicamper]

Yep, me traditionalist to the core, if theres no clutch I'm not buying it. But my wife has had 2 Subarus with CVTs and they are as good as any automatic.

Saying a modern CVT is unreliable only hurts your own credibility.

A Subaru CVT is nothing like a Prius CVT. If you want to crawl over steps and ledges skip the CVT.
I think the new Bronco Sport just proved its likely king of the CUVs. Plus you get a more square interior which works far better for gear.
The subaru CVT won’t do this.

 

[southpier13]

with regard to the Subaru models, the Forester is 300# more than the Outback with same drivetrain/ engine & reduced weight capacity. i understand there is greater volume in the cabin. i don't remember if the towing capacity is the same, but don't understand how it could be.

Q: is the trade off (weight vs space) a fair argument to lean towards the Forester?

(i understand the question is awkwardly worded - but it's the best i can do!)

 

[4x4tripping]

How less it really need - did show us the worldtravelling bikers i guess.

But there are too examples by car, who did a transafrica, panamericana, australia and parts of the silkroad with something like just a beetle and trailer:

Mit VW Käfer und Wohnwagen auf Weltreise

Weltreise mit dem Wohnwagen - es gibt einige Beispiele...

www.4x4tripping.com

Its a nice trip to travel virtually with - in this (c)orona times...

We did our transafrica in the same timeframe, too sad that we dont meet them!

Everything more than a car and a tent - are just "options" and not a requirement...

Surfy

 

[baipin]

Realistically, for most of what you're going to encounter, the CVT Subarus will climb just fine. Stay on the pedal, get a transmission intercooler if you do that often (it's a $100 mod and they come stock everywhere except USDM it seems), or get a locker if you're really serious. One of the reasons the CVT stalls to "protect itself" is because of overheating; so, climbs that are steep and long, or successive steep ones, or simply not giving it enough momentum and expecting it to get up a hill from a standstill. The intercoolers help with that immensely.

Anyways, people take 'em on that rocky Moab terrain all the time:




Not to mention, the CVT Crosstrek in my post above.

Subaru Offroad International has plenty more examples; it's a Facebook group. As much as I detest that platform, it's proven really helpful. It's a good knowledge base.

 

[calicamper]

with regard to the Subaru models, the Forester is 300# more than the Outback with same drivetrain/ engine & reduced weight capacity. i understand there is greater volume in the cabin. i don't remember if the towing capacity is the same, but don't understand how it could be.

Q: is the trade off (weight vs space) a fair argument to lean towards the Forester?

(i understand the question is awkwardly worded - but it's the best i can do!)

Subaru makes 4 cars. The BRZ, Impreza, Legacy, and Ascent. The Forester is a Boxy body on a Impreza. Its rated at 1500lbs.

 

[southpier13]

does the Outback not fit in the picture? i guess i'm confused. again....

 

[alanymarce]

...My question is this. I would like to buy a practical functional small cross-over SUV to take off-road for the purpose of making it safely to adventure destinations. (so while rock-crawling and all that could be an obstacle to arrive at some destinations that is not the point of the vehicle).

Main points of concern would be reliability (I dont want a car that breaks down a lot), gas mileage, functionality and safety off-road, value.

I am looking at Rav4 AWD, RAV 4 Hybrid, Subaru Outback, Forester or CrossTrek.

We've owned two Nissan X Trails (T30 and T31). We drove around South America in the second (56,000 Km in 11 months). Probably 80% surfaced road, 18% unsurfaced, and 2% "offroad" (SW Bolivian desert, Lençois Maranhenses (Brazil ), Misiones Biosphere Reserve Forest (Argentina), among others...). They were very capable. The T31 was CVT, "intelligent transmission", 2.5 L petrol (gasoline).

- reliability - zero problems in 8 years between the two.
- gas mileage - good - 30 mi/US gal overall
- functionality off-road - took us everywhere we wanted to go, including sand dunes, muddy rain forest, rocky trails. THe clearance was good, approach angle reasonable, and the departure angle not bad (although this was the limiting factor in deep sand). The key is to understand the capability of the vehicle and drive within it - it's not a Jeep Rubicon...
- safety off-road - see previous comments on driving within the vehicle's limits.
- value - when we bought the second one it was a third the price of a Land Cruiser... value held well over 5 years.

The new X Trail (T32) is significantly less capable - designed for a different market, and we replaced it with a Montero (bigger, more power/torque, more offroad capability), however the T31 did a great job for us.

 

[baipin]

does the Outback not fit in the picture? i guess i'm confused. again....

Subaru makes the Forester, Outback, Crosstrek (also known as the XV) , Impreza, Ascent, and WRX. For all intents and purposes, the Forester, Outback,and Crosstrek are regarded as the best for overlanding/offroad.

• Of those, the Forester is one of the most popular choices because it was previously the only option with a turbo; has the tallest interior space; best approach, breakover, and departure angles out of the gate. The Outback has the worst angles, the Crosstrek is somewhere in the middle. All can have their bumpers cut and/or metal bumpers installed (either DIY or one of the WARN Subaru bumpers) to fix this - so don't let that be the deciding factor.
• The Forester, Outback,and Crosstrek all have about the same amount of aftermarket support. This has expanded greatly in the last few years. Long-travel suspension, Torq automatic diff lockers, lift kits, skid plates, steel bumpers, brush guards, roof racks, winch bumpers, etc. are all pretty easy to come by. ADF, ASFIR, LP Adventure, SubaXtreme, All Drive Subaroo, Primitive, WARN, SubiLiftOZ, are all worth looking at.
• The Forester, Outback, and Crosstrek all have about the same capability off road. Same AWD system, except for slight differences in manual and CVT trans.
• The Forester is tall and long, the Outback is less tall, but slightly longer, whereas the Crosstrek is less tall and less long than both. The Crosstrek is to a car, what the Outback is to a wagon, what the Forester is to a wagon with a taller roof/compact SUV. To give some perspective; the Forester's interior dimensions are a little larger than a FJ Cruiser's, a bit shorter in length than a 4Runner.
• If you expect to use a RTT, I'dconsider the Forester with a sunroof; you can stand in it when open, and access the tent from inside.
• The CVT is generally regarded as the better choice out of the box, for offroading modern Subarus. Lower 1st gear than the 6MT and 5MT manuals. The manuals are as good or better than the CVT if you put effort into building them. That includes buying a low-range unit from Australia (available for the Crosstrek and possibly still the Forester or Outback). One popular mod (which is free, basically just looking at some diagrams and wiring in a switch) is the center diff lockup mod , which essentially emulates a proper 4x4.
• For CVTs, you can get an aftermarket torque converter (BKS Motor Works are good people to talk to) or a Spiider to do the same and lock your center diff, as one would with a proper 4x4. https://www.dccdpro.com/product/awd-controller-spiider/ To be honest, I don't think any of this is necessary and the CVT is good for the vaaaast majority of driving you'll be doing. Get a rear diff locker before you bother with torque converters and such. Cheaper and far more effective.
• The CVT rarely stalls due to its own misgivings despite popular myths about that. Usually it's driver error; if you buy a Subaru with X-mode, you should turn off VDC (stability control) and turn on X-mode off-road. Otherwise, the two systems compete with each other and rob power. This is only two button presses, but the difference is night and day, and not everyone knows this it seems.
• The current generation Forester and Outback XT have Dual X-mode which is less hesitant to allow wheelspin compared to the previous generation (what I drive), though turning off VDC mostly does the same thing.
• The Forester and to a lesser extent the Outback benefit from a transmission intercooler. This is the other reason the CVT commonly stalls; getting close to overheating. Note that this is far less commonly a problem in non-USDM Subarus, which come with transmission intercoolers stock. You can buy the OEM coolers and fit them into USDM Subarus just fine, or buy an aftermarket. Personally, I'd go with the latter. It's cheaper, just as effective, and parts are readily available. If you live somewhere that gets cold winters, I'd recommend a Derale thermostat to make sure the trans fluid doesn't get too cold.
• You'll note that the USDM Forester has a tow cap of about 1500lb.The Outback only a little bit more. The short story is that this is grossly under what it can actually tow. In the UK, the identical SJ Forester has a 4400lb tow capacity. In Australia, that number goes up to 3968lb. It's largely a legal thing to do with towing speeds. I've looked into this quite a bit for my own Forester, and the only differences to the vehicles themselves are the previously mentioned transmission intercooler, and differences to receiver itself (UK and Australian models go further into the unibody frame than do USDM ones; they use 4 to 6 more bolts and thicker-walled steel, depending on design). The USDM Forester actually has pre-drilled holes for these beefier receivers.

That'spretty much everything I'd consider, if you're considering a Subaru.

 

[southpier13]

WOW - you've really dialed this in; thank you!

 

[Grassland]

Impreza = Crosstrek
Legacy = Outback
Basically half of their vehicles are just a slightly lifted and modified version of their hatchbacks and wagons.
Why Subaru dropped powerful engine options for many of their vehicles never made much sense to me, but it could be because of CAFE or something. Why there isn't a WRX version of the Crosstrek for example.

In 2013 wife was cross shopping Elantra GT and Impreza, and the lack of power and CVT were why we went to the Elantra.

 

[calicamper]

does the Outback not fit in the picture? i guess i'm confused. again....

My Outback is identical to my moms Legacy. Only the Outback got stilts. Its a Legacy wagon.
like I said Subaru makes 4 cars they put different bodies on them and bingo you get outback. Forester etc.Brilliant product and marketing idea on 4 platforms.

 

[Warn Industries]

Here's the Crosstrek with our Semi-Hidden Kit for '19+ Crosstrek equipped with a WARN AXON 55-S winch. The build was done by Rallitek in Oregon.


Outback


Forester (without grille guard tube)


If anyone ever has any questions about our products, don't hesitate to shoot me a PM.

Andy